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John5788
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Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 2140
Location: 127.0.0.1
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 Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:36 am Post subject: What's new in xorg-server 1.5? |
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so besides the obvious HAL stuff that a lot of people have run into with dead kbs/mice, what is new in xorg-server 1.5?
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GODhack
Guru
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 389
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Faster startup and shutdown, lots of code removal, EDID 1.4, Secure RPC authentication, GLX and DRI passthrough support for Xephyr, "smarter autoconfiguration" (*), pervasive and coherent XACE security framework, easier building of GL code, numerous input-related bugfixes.
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dakster
Apprentice
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 178
Location: New England
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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They've accomplished the unpossible! They found a way to make integrated intel graphics SLOWER. I didn't believe it until I saw it on my own desktop 
All kidding aside, if you have integrated intel graphics, you may wanna do some forum searching on GEM before deciding whether or not upgrading to 1.5 is a good idea at the moment. It seems rather difficult to get hardware acceleration back on these chips for the time being. Probably won't be *too* long before all that gets sorted out in the stable branch, there's a lot of integrated intel cards out there. In the long run this should be pretty good, but it could be a little painful for a while. |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| GODhack wrote: | | Faster startup and shutdown, lots of code removal, EDID 1.4, Secure RPC authentication, GLX and DRI passthrough support for Xephyr, "smarter autoconfiguration" (*), pervasive and coherent XACE security framework, easier building of GL code, numerous input-related bugfixes. |
Lot of goodies that might worth something some day. Today, we only get some extra problems.
In my humble opinion, people having to hard reset their machines, risking their data, just because they lose keyboard and mice connectivity without any warning is just bizarre. In the most fortunate case you will only see screwed your non-US keyboard, fine.
As I see it, you first need to worry about knowing how to fly an airplane, then you can start with the NASA technology to reach Mars. But, building launching the Apollo without knowing if it can traverse the earthly atmosphere is a bit shortsighted (and I am being euphemistic), just like launching Xorg with a lot of new goodies but without being sure that it can find a working keyboard.
Or how people say, don't start the house by the roof. My knowledge about X politics is rudimentary at best, I know. But we can't deny that this is creating unnecessary problems for lots of users.
Yes, distros can fix/handle this. But why should they? I am all for ease of usage and that stuff, but I not seeing any of that. I am seeing how the X people are decentralizing the X configuration to spread it over a number of places that no one but the HAL guys know about. It might work sometimes, but when it doesn't work it's -for me- way harder to get X running that it was before. Or maybe it's just that I've been using this stuff for years and I don't like changes that give me no benefit at all. Who knows...  |
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jackhole
n00b
Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| i92guboj wrote: | | In my humble opinion, people having to hard reset their machines, risking their data, just because they lose keyboard and mice connectivity without any warning is just bizarre. |
If hal is working correctly punching the power button should trigger an orderly shutdown.
Failing that you can always perform the Magic Sysrq sequence. |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| jackhole wrote: | | i92guboj wrote: | | In my humble opinion, people having to hard reset their machines, risking their data, just because they lose keyboard and mice connectivity without any warning is just bizarre. |
If hal is working correctly punching the power button should trigger an orderly shutdown.
Failing that you can always perform the Magic Sysrq sequence. |
Sure, that doesn't make it (xorg 1.5) any better though.
Last edited by i92guboj on Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John5788
Advocate
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 2140
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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i had the dead kb/mouse too, but I just used my phone to ssh into my box to configure/reboot it properly.
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jackhole
n00b
Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| i92guboj wrote: | | jackhole wrote: | If hal is working correctly punching the power button should trigger an orderly shutdown.
Failing that you can always perform the Magic Sysrq sequence. |
Sure, that doesn't make it (xorg 1.5) any better though. |
It means users don't have to risk losing their data from a hard reset in order to gain all the improvements GODhack outlined. I thought that was the point of your post? |
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dakster
Apprentice
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 178
Location: New England
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| i92guboj wrote: | | Sure, that doesn't make it (xorg 1.5) any better though. |
That post formatting is a a little plain, and while it is easy to understand, lacks flare. Can you please for now on in a format that conforms to 1.5 and hal standards as outlined by your .fdi files?
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<foruminfo version="xorgRants1.5">
<device>
<!-- xorg borked configuration -->
<match key="upgrade.unabilities" contains="xorg.crashes">
<merge key="i92guboj.post" type="string">Sure, that doesn't make it (xorg 1.5) any better though.</merge>
</match>
</device>
</deviceinfo>
There. Now you're all updated and streamlined baby. Isn't that much more effective? Yeah, I don't think so either. I'm no fan of using xml for configuration files. |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| dakster wrote: | | i92guboj wrote: | | Sure, that doesn't make it (xorg 1.5) any better though. |
That post formatting is a a little plain, and while it is easy to understand, lacks flare. Can you please for now on in a format that conforms to 1.5 and hal standards as outlined by your .fdi files?
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<foruminfo version="xorgRants1.5">
<device>
<!-- xorg borked configuration -->
<match key="upgrade.unabilities" contains="xorg.crashes">
<merge key="i92guboj.post" type="string">Sure, that doesn't make it (xorg 1.5) any better though.</merge>
</match>
</device>
</deviceinfo>
There. Now you're all updated and streamlined baby. Isn't that much more effective? Yeah, I don't think so either. I'm no fan of using xml for configuration files. |
I almost spill my glass of water over the keyboard. |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| jackhole wrote: | | i92guboj wrote: | | jackhole wrote: | If hal is working correctly punching the power button should trigger an orderly shutdown.
Failing that you can always perform the Magic Sysrq sequence. |
Sure, that doesn't make it (xorg 1.5) any better though. |
It means users don't have to risk losing their data from a hard reset in order to gain all the improvements GODhack outlined. I thought that was the point of your post? |
The point of my post is that xorg should work without the support of sysrq. Just like any other userland program, I think I am not asking so much.
The point of my post is that nice features and improvements are nice, but only when basic needs have been covered. I find it stupid when people don't have even a place to sleep but own a car that is as expensive as 60,000€. This is comparable. First thing first, then you can worry about the rest. The key words is "priorities". And the X team is taking the wrong ones in my humble opinion, which is just the point of view of a user.
I am not imposing my view. They have the right to do whatever they want and I am grateful because they are providing such a great product. Still, just like everyone here enjoys the rights and benefits of free software, I enjoy the right of free speech with the only limit of respectfulness. And I am free to say what I think. |
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jackhole
n00b
Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| i92guboj wrote: | | jackhole wrote: | | It means users don't have to risk losing their data from a hard reset in order to gain all the improvements GODhack outlined. I thought that was the point of your post? |
The point of my post is that xorg should work without the support of sysrq. Just like any other userland program, I think I am not asking so much.
The point of my post is that nice features and improvements are nice, but only when basic needs have been covered. |
It does and they do. I did not mean to imply that the power button and magic sysrq are the only way to shut down a computer with xserver-1.5.3 on it. |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I did not mean to imply that the power button and magic sysrq are the only way to shut down a computer with xserver-1.5.3 on it. |
I didn't put that words in your mouth either. 
| jackhole wrote: | | i92guboj wrote: | | jackhole wrote: | | It means users don't have to risk losing their data from a hard reset in order to gain all the improvements GODhack outlined. I thought that was the point of your post? |
The point of my post is that xorg should work without the support of sysrq. Just like any other userland program, I think I am not asking so much.
The point of my post is that nice features and improvements are nice, but only when basic needs have been covered. |
It does and they do.
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Better say "it should, they should". Because if that's the way it really is, then all the people having problems are having visions, hallucinating, or -plainly- lying, I guess.
Don't misunderstand me and please, try to see the whole picture and not only your own experience. I know that everything can be fixed. But if they really want to make HAL+evdev the default, it must be tested and work out-of-the-box on at least 99% of the cases. Until then, please, leave it as it was, because it worked ok 100% of the times. I see no point in ignoring my settings in xorg.conf which works ok. Whomever wants to use autodetection can remove xorg.conf and live with that. But if I put an xorg.conf there, it's for a reason.
And no, having to reset one time using sysrq and having to fix my xorg.conf that was perfectly working is not a good solution. In first place, the whole purpose of this HAL stuff is to save the user the pain of having to edit xorg.conf, configure things and that kind of stuff. But as it is right now, the FACT is that you have to do manual work to get X working. So, the whole point of using HAL becomes moot. |
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kurisuchan
n00b
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Upgraded to xorg-server 1.5 on several machines here. No problems at all. Just make sure HAL is (already) running. However, I have to admit there are next to none new features which are necessary at the moment nor worth encountering serious problems. Upgrade with care.
Edit: Yes, manual work is definitely required if you want to get working non us keyboards using HAL for example. So, if you don't really have to, don't upgrade yet. |
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d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Each time, that a new Xorg-Server is out, the more the /etc/X11/xorg.conf will become more and more with less lines  |
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poly_poly-man
Advocate
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 2477
Location: RIT, NY, US
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:39 am Post subject: |
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ummm... many months ago I switched over with absolutely 0 issues...
I switched over when 1.4.99 came out. IIRC, I never touched an fdi file, and the only thing that changed was that my mouse's horizontal scrolling actually worked correctly instead of inverted.
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avatar: new version of logo - see topic 838248. Potentially still a WiP. |
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d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:40 am Post subject: |
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In fact, you use a Us keyboard layout
I use a French Canadian one |
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GODhack
Guru
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 389
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Too bad that XFree86 is not widely used anymore ones who do not like Xorg could use it, but now then there is no it in tree it would be not easy option.
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rasmus
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jul 2002
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| I've been using xorg-server 1.5.x with hal and so on for quite a while in ubuntu and Fedora now and it has all worked perfectly. In gentoo I have all these little problems with slow scrolling, mice that don't work and keyboards that suddenly stop working. I guess it's just the gentoo way of doing things, doing them yourself. |
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d2_racing
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005
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Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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