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dE_logics
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:55 am    Post subject: Failed to install, GUI, multiple questions. Reply with quote

I tried to install gentoo on a defined NTFS partition, I'm running windows for now.

And I failed to do that, I mean I failed in the first few steps.
Using the SDK installer; in the step of adding the device for installation (you know the options to select the partition, to add it, update and remove etc...); I had on idea what the last 2 options were...so I set them to defaults as instructed, and still the installer failed to proceed.
Can anyone help me around?

Also I'm not able to view my hard drive contents which are in NTFS...yeah I tried the steps in the FAQ...that 'dos fs support' one...but I seriously don't know where to type that, I tried it in the command line interface, but it returned all errors.
And how can you recompile the kernel while the system is running?...sounds insane to me.

Does the OS has GUI for simple tasks like configuring the network or installing drivers...or a graphical task/process viewer?...will installing gnome desktop help?

Also do you have support for ATI x1270 built in?...rare card I have to say, AMD nor my laptop manufacturer provide drivers for Linux.
I think Ubuntu has that.
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NathanZachary
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would STRONGLY discourage the use of the GUI installer. Your best bet would be to use the minimal installation disc and follow the handbook.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally what section of the users does Gentoo focus on?...new novice users/coders/IT engineers etc...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And can I do the minimum installation using the live CD?

You know the pirthball 3...I don't remember the name
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can do a minimal installation using the LiveCD by issuing the nox kernel parameter at startup. Gentoo has a steep learning curve, but it is a fully customisable system. All of the programs you mention (GUI-based ones for network administration) can be installed after the initial system. Many of the desktop environments (like GNOME, KDE, et cetera) come with some of these tools automatically, or are readily available.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dE_logics wrote:
Finally what section of the users does Gentoo focus on?...new novice users/coders/IT engineers etc...

gentoo is for guys, who love to have total control over their system (power users) or who want to learn linux the hard way. If you want a distribution that "just works", I would recommend you trying something else. After all just clicking on something in the qui, whitout understanding is harmfull in any case, but under gentoo it is even more dangerous. If you want to learn gentoo, we will gladly help you, just know that it will take alot of time and efforts.
I would suggest that you try to use the handbook, as karlos suggested.

Btw: I think the linux support for ntfs is not so good. Why dont you try ext3 or something linux native?

About the card, from what I have seen, many people use the fglrx drivers. On the ati webpage it does not show that this card is supported. The open source ati drivers dont show that they support this model as well... so try for the start the fglrx drivers.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalos wrote:
You can do a minimal installation using the LiveCD by issuing the nox kernel parameter at startup.
Or by using a terminal session from within the GUI.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah...I'm willing to learn the hard way (actually I'm a scientific personnel so I'm used to that) , but the explanations during the installation should be good...like it's asking me to set a mount point, and I got no idea what it is, nor its explained anywhere.

Yes...I'd definitely like to have complete control over the system but I really think I don't know the definition of complete control :lol:

Once I completely switch to the OS I will change the file system, but initially is there any way by which I can view the NTFS/FAT file systems?

The graphs drivers are very important to me, I'll be playing games in it...Direct X games.

And I'm not that much new to the topic, as you might think, I partially know things...like MBR, processing threads; though partially.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the exact definition of customization as you put here?...and what are the skills you need to have to customize the system? Just give me some examples pls.

Basically I needed an OS which is pretty fast...that's the reason why I chose this OS.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OS failed to detect supported partitions also.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can not install to an ntfs partition. Linux will not run windows programs faster than windows does.
The Gentoo handbook provides superb instructions.
Better to use the minimal install cd than livecd.
Better yet to use the System rescue cd, http://www.sysresccd.org/Download , as (in place of) minimal cd and follow the handbook closely.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hm...
ok... it is *hard* to change the partition type once there is something on it. So even if you manage to install on ntfs, you will need to remove the partition and reinstall gentoo (copying the files to a temp partition is somewhat ok...)

total control means that you can install any program with the options you need and set the compiler to match your architecture, so that you will get some (~2-5%) speed increase.

Try using the livecd with the gui. there start a console (xterm for example) and connect to the gentoo irc channel: #gentoo in freenode.net. It is a good place to ask when you are installing a system.

as an example of how to customize your system, I would give you the USE-flags:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=2&chap=2
They are easy to use and let you specify what options a program should support. Some times there are optimization options as well (using for example ntpl and ntplonly). I would recommend you that you take your time in reading the documentation on the gentoo website as well as this thread:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-23350.html
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DONAHUE wrote:
You can not install to an ntfs partition. Linux will not run windows programs faster than windows does.
The Gentoo handbook provides superb instructions.
Better to use the minimal install cd than livecd.
Better yet to use the System rescue cd, http://www.sysresccd.org/Download , as (in place of) minimal cd and follow the handbook closely.


I'm not installing it on an NTFS partition...as I said in my last post the OS is not showing the contents of a supported partition also (reiserfs) in its browser...I don't know how to view its contents in the terminal.

And I made 3 partitions as recommended in the handbook...boot (100MB)(fs:reiserfs), Swap (3GB) and the rest into which I'll install Gentoo (fs:reiserfs).

In the GUI installer it asks me to add devices to mount before and after the installation...I think I have to mount all the partitions since I wanna use them all.

Still it pops up saying I should set a "mount to"...I guess its asking me to set a place to which linux needs to be installed; now how to do that? :?

Now how to you define "mount"...I guess it means able to use the partition...am I right?

All the above is same for the command line installer.

Also I'm getting options like /home, /root in the command line...what does this mean?

As if the handbook -

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-723539.html

I would prefer to install from the liveCD...though its a difficult ordeal.

defenderBG wrote:
I would recommend you that you take your time in reading the documentation on the gentoo website as well as this thread:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-23350.html


I did that before posting...no help.

Also I connect to the internet via a dial up connection (sorta...thought PPPOE)...for that I know I will have to configure the network rigorously, and I think I'm not ready to do that considering the difficulties I'm facing with the installation process.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

windows does not support any linux partitions, thus this behaivior is normal. For ext2/3 I know that there is a program, which allows you to view your partitions under windows, yet no idea for reiserfs.

now... the mount points set where linux can access the partition. For example your biggest partition is for the users, who's directories reside in /home, thus the mount point should be /home.

Now the above is just an example. Your partition sheme is not so good. I would recommend you spliting it in the following way: (size - mount point)
100 mB - /boot
10 000 - /
<size of ram> - swap (swap is not mounted as a point, so it does not start with /)
rest - /home

this partition sheme is easy to understand and is quite good for a novice user. the seperation from the / and /home, means that even if you break your system (when i was learning I did it a few times), you would not loose any data.

if you are using pppoe I would recommend that you install net-dialup/ppp net-dialup/pppconfig net-dialup/rp-pppoe, which will allow you later to easily connect to the internet.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recommend also that you use SystemRescueCD with a terminal and Firefox that is open too.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

defenderBG wrote:
windows does not support any linux partitions, thus this behaivior is normal


Yeah I'm aware of that, microsoft lives in its own world.

And no it doesn't support reiserfs...I can confirm that on Vista.

And I'm referring to gentoo's browser...gentoo does support NTFS/Fat 32 right?

Quote:
now... the mount points set where linux can access the partition. For example your biggest partition is for the users, who's directories reside in /home, thus the mount point should be /home.


You mean...if I've specified a mount point, when the partition will be opened I will be directed automatically to a folder within the partition to which it's mounted.

Now I definitely don't want that!...I wanna see and work in the actual partition(s).

Or does Linux classify its partitions for specific purposes?...like the boot partition for booting, root for the installation directory, home partition for other purposes (documentation, software installation, games etc...) etc...

And actually I'm used to setting multiple partition (like currently in windows there're 6 partitions, converting to linux there'll be 8 partitions...now is this possible, and can 2 or more partition have common mount points?)

Quote:
means that even if you break your system


Now unlike you that'll cause me nightmares 8O I've sensitive data onboard and cant afford to loose any!

The solution that I see you gave is manipulating only one partition...right?...the rest will be untouched this way.

d2_racing wrote:
I recommend also that you use SystemRescueCD with a terminal and Firefox that is open too.


I did try the system rescue CD long ago (I was unaware of gentoo at that time and switching to linux was out of the question), but I really don't see any utility of it accept the memory test...which is too rendered useless cause of BIOS memory testing.

Is there any way to access the HDD through it?...or check it for physical bad sectors etc...?...Now I got a feeling the liveCD (gentoo) cant do that that's why no one's talking about it :roll:
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you really know your windows stuff, but are very new to linux.

As has been said before gentoo has a steep learning curve for newcomers (or even advanced users) to the linux world.

Please note a couple of things about your previous threads.


You can compile a kernel while running one, your new kernel will be used when you next reboot

You will be able to access ntfs/fat partitions with your final installation (if you compile your kernel with ntfs/fat support)

You will only be able to run literally a handful of windows applications. Most won't work, linux is not windows, Linux was never designed in the first place to run windows apps. Dont be suprised if you find something does not work.


If you still want to install gentoo, i'll be happy to help you with installation as much as poss on msn messenger. Assuming you have access to msn while you install. :)

Either way good luck
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I understood your confusion.. In windows you have c: d: etc that are the disks. But linux (and unix) makes things a little different. On a working system you will have a / (that's called the root directory) and everything is mounted on top of that. For linux it doesn't matter if a directory is on the same disk or on another disk mounted to that location (after you get used to it, you'll see the advantages).

I really recommend that you find someone who knows more about linux/unix to help you (at least installing). Or, if you can't find any help, maybe you should try another linux distro that is easier for beginners (like Ubuntu).

Gentoo isn't easy to install (but I find it easier than anything to maintain after you installed it).

BTW: Did you make a backup before trying to install? Accidents happen when you are trying something new.

(I think you already saw what I consider the best about Gentoo: there are a lot of people here who will try to help you. That's something you won't find anywhere else.)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gazj wrote:
Sounds like you really know your windows stuff, but are very new to linux.


:lol: you can say that I'm the local guy the chaps turn upto when facing a problem...specially with windows.

Quote:
You will only be able to run literally a handful of windows applications. Most won't work, linux is not windows, Linux was never designed in the first place to run windows apps. Dont be suprised if you find something does not work.


I just need the games actually...with wine they will work right?...DX9 games.

Thanks for the info! :)

[quote="Drysh"]For linux it doesn't matter if a directory is on the same disk or on another disk mounted to that location (after you get used to it, you'll see the advantages). [quote]

You mean like RAID.

Quote:
I really recommend that you find someone who knows more about linux/unix to help you (at least installing).


I estimate in the whole country out of around 400000000+ users there'll be around 100 people who use linux.
and no one on Gentoo, they are more on ubuntoo; non of them are under my vicinity. :cry:

Quote:
Gentoo isn't easy to install (but I find it easier than anything to maintain after you installed it).


ah...thanks man!

Quote:
BTW: Did you make a backup before trying to install? Accidents happen when you are trying something new.


The home partitions won't format right?

Thanks for the help guys...I'm proceeding finally :)

And the GUI installer is pretty easy.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember, and haven't a reference by me, but will grub boot off
a reiserfs partition (which is what he seems to be trying to do)?

Will
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grub does fine with reiser3. reiser4??
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DONAHUE wrote:
grub does fine with reiser3. reiser4??


Wouldn't touch killerFS ;)

Don't think GRUB-1 handles reiser4 or ext4... wait for GRUB-2?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God...tell me why do *I* always make the weirdest options??


I'm not talking about this case...but generally in my life till now! :cry:



In fact gentoo was itself a weird and uncommon option!

http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/suse-linux-help/50024-can-grub-read-reiserfs-filesystems.html

Why do people forget!!?? :cry: :cry:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=659542

Ok...best options...format the boot partition in ext 2 :)

Now will it work?




Also GRUB NEEDS a floppy?...will a pendrive or something like that work?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ext2, ext3, reiser3 all ok for /boot
grub does not need a floppy or pen drive but you can install to either
grub ordinarily is installed to the MBR of a hard drive
when grub is desired that hard drive is selected as priority boot
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But all tutorials regarding this say "insert a floppy drive".

And I have to install GRUB on Gentoo right?...and there're rigorous procedures.

Also does anyone know a handbook on the definitions of /home, /boot etc...
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