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momesana
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Graphical rc-update replacement (called "servant") Reply with quote

I have written an rc-update replacement in qt4 and I would like you to test it and give me suggestions. And pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaze don't bug me with stuff like: Gentoo doesn't need GUI stuff and rc-update is userfriendly enough etc. We had that discussion before: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-364633-highlight-momesana.html, especially this post of mine https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-364633-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-momesana-start-125.html (the third comment from the top) clarifies my views on these things .If you are comfortable with the shell, by all means stick to it. This project was not born because it was difficult for you and me to use rc-update -- I am a CLI guy myself -- but rather for those people/ newbies that find it difficult to use these tools because they are not familiar with them! ... and don't tell me Gentoo is for advanced users only (even though you might be right ... :-P ).

============
Announcements
============
29-may-2006: version 0.1.4 released!
changes: - added experimental directory monitoring abilities, using gamin/fam
- added visual notification when runlevels or their states change
- added experimental ability to controll processes (start/stop/restart/zap)


15-may-2006: version 0.1.3 released!
changes: - removed collapse animation. Only fade out is now used and looks smoother
- servant has an applnk *.desktop file now which enables you to start it from kde with Alt+F2 and
conviniently enter your root-password when prompted for it. Ignoring it will give you the ability to watch
the state of services but you can't modify them
- when you start servant it will display a dialog that tells you how to use it. You can tell servant to
never display it again by checking the checkbox "don't show again" in the same dialog.

29-apr-2006: version 0.1.2 released!
changes: reworked the contextmenu
implemented collapse/fade out of Services that are removed from the active runlevel
sources and ebuilds for 0.1.2 can be fetched from http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/

24-apr-2006: Version 0.1.1 released!
changes: removed a bug, added searchbar
sources and ebuilds for 0.1.1 can be fetched from http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/


============
Dependencies
============
Qt4 is this application's sole dependency. Nothing else needed.

===========
Screenshots
===========
++ (0.1.4) ++
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/sys-apps/servant/servant-0.1.4.jpg

++ (0.1.1) ++
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/servant-0.1.1.png

++ (0.1) ++
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/servant.png
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/servant1.png
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/servant2.png

=========
Installation
=========
Fetch the ebuild with the highest version from here:
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/

follow the http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Installing_3rd_Party_Ebuilds howto, if you don't know how to install third-party ebuilds that are not in the standard portage-tree yet.
the process is as follows:
create a directory "sys-apps" in your Portage overlay directory (see the PORTDIR_OVERLAY variable set in /etc/make.conf -- set to /usr/local/portage if it is not there) and copy the ebuild file you get from http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/ into it. Then add sys-apps/servant into your /etc/portage/package.keywords file. You can do that with:
Code:
 echo sys-apps/servant >> /etc/portage/package.keywords
and then simply execute:
Code:
emerge --digest servant
.

and for those wishing to install from source:
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/servant-0.1.3.tar.bz2
1. get the source
2. unpack it and change to the unpacked directory
3. issue qmake to create makefiles
4. issue make to build the package
5. execute ./servant to launch the app

=========================
Bugreports and suggestions go to:
=========================
Either post on this forum or send via email to momesana@yahoo.de

=====================
Future versions and features
=====================
a ROADMAP for Features to be included can be found in the tarball (in the TODO file). It is also viewable with
less /usr/share/doc/servant-0.1/TODO.gz
if you have insalled servant with the ebuild.

==============
Troubleshooting:
==============
Q: I haved installed servant with the ebuild but executing servant from the command line gives following error: bash: servant: command not found
. What did I do wrong?
A: Well, since this application is intended to be run by root, it is placed in /usr/sbin/ so chances are this directory is not in your path (echo $PATH). Try to launch it with /usr/sbin/servant (context menus will be grayed out) or issue the command as root. You can find out about the files installed by the ebuild by running following command: equery f servant

Q: The context-menues that would let you add and remove services from runlevels are grayed out. Whats wrong?
A: You have not the neccessary write permissions. execute servant as root (or someone that has the permissions to write to /etc/runlevels/<runlevel>/)

Q: The Services shown in the Window are blank when I minimize/shade and then maximize/unshade the windows. Is this a bug?
A: Yes it is. It appears when the call layout->enabled(false) ... layout->enable(true) was made. I couldn't find a solution for this bug, even with the kind support of some 3l33t programmers at #qt on freenode. Well, I finally decided to reimplement the Widgets again by painting all the stuff instead of using qlabels and the likes. So in the newer versions >=0.1.1 the bug is gone.

Thank you.

p.s. I need Feedback. If I know there are a dozen people that use this application or think it is a good Idea and valuable for gentoo, then that is enough motivation to keep on coding on this. But a programm without users is superfluous. Tell me what you think of this software.
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Last edited by momesana on Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:24 pm; edited 15 times in total
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice idea :)
Not that I'll use it. I find typing a command on a console faster myself.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because I don't feel like switching to my email client...

I can't tell from the images, but I would recommend a "mass change" option. Allow selecting multiple services to change them all to the same runlevel.

Otherwise, looks good.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Graphical rc-update replacement (called "servant&qu Reply with quote

momesana wrote:
...a ROADMAP for Features to be included can be found in the tarball (in the TODO file). It is also viewable with
zcat /usr/share/doc/servant-0.1/TODO.gz | less
if you have insalled servant with the ebuild.

Why not just use zless /usr/share/doc/servant-0.1/TODO.gz? ;)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Graphical rc-update replacement (called "servant&am Reply with quote

floffe wrote:
Why not just use zless /usr/share/doc/servant-0.1/TODO.gz? ;)

already done. Thanx for the hint. :)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Graphical rc-update replacement (called "servant&am Reply with quote

momesana wrote:
floffe wrote:
Why not just use zless /usr/share/doc/servant-0.1/TODO.gz? ;)

already done. Thanx for the hint. :)

you could also use regular old 'less', it's smart enough to handle gzipped files.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:

...I would recommend a "mass change" option. Allow selecting multiple services to change them all to the same runlevel.

I contemplated about this for a few days and apart from the fact that it is not very simple to implement, I doubt that it would have much benefit. I.e., I cannot think of any scenario where it it would be required to change more than three runlevels at a time. Up to three runlevels can be added/removed easily in sequence without annoying the user. I think, better monitoring and the soon-to-be-added (version 0.2.x ) service management Features (start, stop, restart, pause and zap) are more important and should be added first.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I finally got a chance to try out your runlevel editor and its pretty nice the only things I noticed were some minor grammar errors [your spacing for the messages is a bit off] and the fact that when you altered a run level the change was not automatically updated in the interface. The only other major thing I noticed was that it took a second or two to figure out how to remove an item from a given runlevel. That probably should be a seperate option. There should also be something telling users to right click on a given item in order to configure it.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it just me or is the command line rc-update more than easy enough?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speeddemon wrote:
Is it just me or is the command line rc-update more than easy enough?


Is it just me or did he say he didn't want to get into this and that he has already had this discussion (he even posted links to where these discussions took place). It's his project, I am sure some people will find it nice, who cares.


With that said, the app looks nice, seems like a pretty clean simple layout from the shots, good stuff.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speeddemon wrote:
Is it just me or is the command line rc-update more than easy enough?

The goal is to put rc-update/rc-status and the ability to start/stop/pause/restart/zap the process under the hood of one single easy to use interface that is reliable and even aware of dynamic changes taking place outside of the application itself (by using directory-monitoring facilities...). Then the programm will be usable even to advanced users.

Zepp wrote:

Is it just me or did he say he didn't want to get into this and that he has already had this discussion (he even posted links to where these discussions took place).

Exactly! Thank you for pointing this out :)

Zepp wrote:

With that said, the app looks nice, seems like a pretty clean simple layout from the shots, good stuff.

Thank you even more :)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

momesana wrote:
speeddemon wrote:
Is it just me or is the command line rc-update more than easy enough?

The goal is to put rc-update/rc-status and the ability to start/stop/pause/restart/zap the process under the hood of one single easy to use interface that is reliable and even aware of dynamic changes taking place outside of the application itself (by using directory-monitoring facilities...). Then the programm will be usable even to advanced users.

Zepp wrote:

Is it just me or did he say he didn't want to get into this and that he has already had this discussion (he even posted links to where these discussions took place).

Exactly! Thank you for pointing this out :)

Zepp wrote:

With that said, the app looks nice, seems like a pretty clean simple layout from the shots, good stuff.

Thank you even more :)

Ok. I didn't mean to sound like an ass, I just didn't see what you were doing.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

momensa, it looks nice and I will be looking forward to seeing how it progresses. Do you have any plans of getting this into portage?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark_alec wrote:
momensa, it looks nice and I will be looking forward to seeing how it progresses. Do you have any plans of getting this into portage?

Well, I would really like to! This is actually vital for the application, since this app is rather targeted at the newbies that cannot cope with the cli and people like that are mostly not capable of setting up a portage-overlay and install the ebuild there... . And I really need the feedback from these people so it is very important to get the ebuild into the standard portage-tree.

The advanced users on the other hand do not feel the need for such an app and probably will never install/test/use it. As you can see I've already written a priliminary ebuild, which was not really too difficult since the package only depends on Qt4. I would really welcome it if someone gives me permission to put it in the standard portage tree or does this for me. I've successfully tested the application on x86 and amd64. If you can help me with that, I would be really greatful.

As for the progress, I am actively working on it. A bug in >=Qt 4.1.1 forced me to rewrite parts of the application. You will probably see the difference when comparing version 0.1 and 0.1.1. At the weekend I will try to implement the directory monitoring features so the application is notified when services get started/paused/stopped or when people manually add/delete services to/from runlevels.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I am an amd64 user and aside from the things I mentioned in my earlier post its working fairly well so I guess I can confirm that much. :) I'm looking forward to the directory monitoring featues since I do turn on/off ssh with some frequency and constantly doing /etc/init.d/sshd start/stop has become fairly annoying. I guess you could consider me relatively adept at Gentoo [I've been using it for at least half a year though I think its closer to a full year.] and I think this program is already off to a great start. :)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

momesana wrote:
mark_alec wrote:
momensa, it looks nice and I will be looking forward to seeing how it progresses. Do you have any plans of getting this into portage?

Well, I would really like to! This is actually vital for the application, since this app is rather targeted at the newbies that cannot cope with the cli and people like that are mostly not capable of setting up a portage-overlay and install the ebuild there... . And I really need the feedback from these people so it is very important to get the ebuild into the standard portage-tree.

The advanced users on the other hand do not feel the need for such an app and probably will never install/test/use it. As you can see I've already written a priliminary ebuild, which was not really too difficult since the package only depends on Qt4. I would really welcome it if someone gives me permission to put it in the standard portage tree or does this for me. I've successfully tested the application on x86 and amd64. If you can help me with that, I would be really greatful.

If you want it in the portage tree, you should make a bug for it on bugzilla.

I would also recommend that you contact the various Gentoo-based graphical distributions such as Kororaa, Vidalinux and RR4/RR64 as they are likely to be interested in it (even if it isn't yet in the gentoo portage tree).

btw, I don't think app-portage is the correct category as it isn't a portage-related program, sys-apps seems more appropriate.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Skill wrote:
Well I finally got a chance to try out your runlevel editor and its pretty nice the only things I noticed were some minor grammar errors [your spacing for the messages is a bit off] and the fact that when you altered a run level the change was not automatically updated in the interface.
Well, I thought it would be a little confusing to the user if the widget simply dissappears when the user has removed it from the runlevel it is being edited in. changing the runlevel to another value and back will make the Widget remove but that is also not very userfriendly. What do you think about givin a notification to the user and then make the widget collapse slowly so he seems the widget going away in a less confusing manner?

Shadow Skill wrote:

The only other major thing I noticed was that it took a second or two to figure out how to remove an item from a given runlevel. That probably should be a seperate option. There should also be something telling users to right click on a given item in order to configure it.

[/quote] good points.

Thank you for trying it out and your feedback :)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark_alec wrote:

btw, I don't think app-portage is the correct category as it isn't a portage-related program, sys-apps seems more appropriate.

I will modify the ebuild accordingly.

Thank you.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Skill wrote:
The only other major thing I noticed was that it took a second or two to figure out how to remove an item from a given runlevel. That probably should be a seperate option. There should also be something telling users to right click on a given item in order to configure it.

Changed the contextMenu a little:
What do you think about the current state?
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/01-servant-0.1.2-pre.png
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/02-servant-0.1.2-pre.png
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/app-portage/servant/03-servant-0.1.2-pre.png

Adding and removing the services can only be taken out in the latter two contextmenu-options. Do you think I am going into the right direction or is this even more confusing to the user?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That should be alot less confusing, all you need now is a popup notification that runs when the program is executed for the first time telling users to right click.
Quote:
What do you think about giving a notification to the user and then make the widget collapse slowly so he seems the widget going away in a less confusing manner?
That should work out just fine. One other suggestion is to have the program detect whether programs like gnomesu or kdesu are installed and then let the user choose which su tool they would like to use; this way someone could just run the command itself and it would prompt them for the administrator password.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Skill wrote:
That should be alot less confusing, all you need now is a popup notification that runs when the program is executed for the first time telling users to right click.

Will follow in the next few days
Quote:


Shadow Skill wrote:

What do you think about giving a notification to the user and then make the widget collapse slowly so he seems the widget going away in a less confusing manner?
That should work out just fine.

Alread implemented! Get it from the location you got version 0.1.1 from (see the anouncement section above)

Shadow Skill wrote:

One other suggestion is to have the program detect whether programs like gnomesu or kdesu are installed and then let the user choose which su tool they would like to use; this way someone could just run the command itself and it would prompt them for the administrator password.

Yeah, sounds plausible. I will try to also implement that one in the days to come.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found the time to add experimental support for controlling the processes(start/stop/restart/zap). Other improvements like directory-monitoring using fam/gamin and some visual usability-improvements are also added. Please check it out and give me some feedback. The ebuild ( and the sources, if you wish to compile manually) can be found at the usual location: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/sys-apps/servant/
make sure, you have fam or even better "gamin" up and running. If fam is installed and you want to keep it instead of gamin, just make sure the fam daemon is running (/etc/init.d/famd start). If you have switched to gamin instead and you have a recent kernel (2.6.15 or so), everything should work out of the box. If neither one is installed, the ebuild will resolve the dependencies and emerge gamin if possible and fam otherwise. yet, you really would do better uninstalling fam and emerging gamin instead. Gamin uses inotify to track changes to directories. This is much more efficent compared to fam.This is very important since the application now strongly relies on directory monitoring in order to track the state of services. For the curious, here is a screenshot: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/sys-apps/servant/servant-0.1.4.jpg


29-may-2006: version 0.1.4 released!
changes: - added experimental directory monitoring abilities, using gamin/fam
- added visual notification when runlevels or their states change
- added experimental ability to controll processes (start/stop/restart/zap)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just what I needed!

Ever installed gentoo for a friend who is new at Linux?
In fact Gentoo should have a centralized GUI to manage not only services, but also other things, such as network settings....
This is a first step in the good direction!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bartDM wrote:
Just what I needed!

Ever installed gentoo for a friend who is new at Linux?
In fact Gentoo should have a centralized GUI to manage not only services, but also other things, such as network settings....
This is a first step in the good direction!

Thank you for the positive feedback :). There is a 0.1.5er version of this application, that addresses some usability issues. For example it sports a brandnew Systray icon with notifications about the state of services. It depends on Qt-4.2.0-tp so it is not very practical to write an ebuild for it yet. The sources can be fetched from the same location where the other tarballs can be fetched from ( that is http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/sys-apps/servant/servant-0.1.5-pre.tar.bz2 ), and you can try it out, if you have, Qt-4.2.0-tp. Whenever Qt-4.2.0 gets released, I will release version 1.5.0. There are some nice screenshots of it here (I hope you like it):
http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~momesana/sys-apps/servant/screenshots/

Again, thank you for your Feedback.
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in the world I see, you're stalking elk throught the grand canyon forests, around the ruins of the rockefeller center. You'll wear leather clothes, that will last you the rest of your life... (Tylers Vision)
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Zepp
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Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks cool
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