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snIP3r
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: The Filesystem choice thread - Part 2 Reply with quote

Continued from here - nixnut

hi all!

i use xfs on my gentoo home router box with these mount options:

Code:

/dev/sda3 on / type xfs (rw,noatime,logbufs=8)
/dev/mapper/data on /data type xfs (rw,noatime,logbufs=8,nobarrier)


i only had one filesystem error so far but this was because i had to reboot the machine while working an turned off barriers on /. since then i turned them on again.
performance is ok. its about 90mb/s write and 180mb/s read on /. i use a 3ware 9650se 4port hw-raid controller with 4x320gb wd 3200ys drives and kernel 2.6.25-gentoo-r7 on a amd64 3800+ ee cpu with 2gb ram.
is there a way to improve performance with mount options?

greets
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Gentoo and filesystems Reply with quote

Hey there, i wanna say i am really confused with my situation. I couldnot find any good explanation about what filesystem is good, fast and safe :)

Some time ago i had gentoo on reiserfs fs. no crash/lost data for me all the time. its working so-so, actually good;) only there were a problem with disc. He always did something (souds like 'trr-trr-trr-trr') in some interval. I though maybe it is a virus xDDD

Yesterday i have tried to found any information about filesystems. ye, there are more infos, but mostly its realy old, like 2004 and so on. So i want to ask you, guru's of gentoo, where can i find someting new. Or can u tell me, will i feel any performance effect among ext4 - reiserfs - reiser4 - ext3 filesystems? i want to make desktop-like system (i have notebook)

Moreover, i found terrible problem with gentoo and reiser4 fs: i CANT found any live CD/DVD/anyD :x distribution with reiser4 FS support into kernel. Ye, those distros had reiser4progs, so u can format partion, but u cant mount it after :/ or maybe i missed somthing :!: :?:
So can u tell me how can i mount reiser4 partion?

Iam not profi in nix-like system, but i love gentoo :D I want to use it. Or there are unimportant, and i may use simpl fs...

uff to much letters ;)

Thanks
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo and filesystems Reply with quote

gelog wrote:
Hey there, i wanna say i am really confused with my situation. I couldnot find any good explanation about what filesystem is good, fast and safe :)


We all want that, however, the perfect fs is just a dream. Like any other perfect thing. Perfect things do not exist.

Usually, performance and reliability are on the opposite side. Journaling takes cpu cycles, and without it, fs's are less reliable.

Quote:
Some time ago i had gentoo on reiserfs fs. no crash/lost data for me all the time. its working so-so, actually good;) only there were a problem with disc. He always did something (souds like 'trr-trr-trr-trr') in some interval. I though maybe it is a virus xDDD


Reiserfs (3.x) has some strong issues with file fragmentation. It's also very heavy on cpu, overall is you use tail packing.

Quote:
Yesterday i have tried to found any information about filesystems. ye, there are more infos, but mostly its realy old, like 2004 and so on. So i want to ask you, guru's of gentoo, where can i find someting new. Or can u tell me, will i feel any performance effect among ext4 - reiserfs - reiser4 - ext3 filesystems? i want to make desktop-like system (i have notebook)


No fs is magic. All of them are good at some things, and bad at others. Reiser4 is no exception. Ext3 is the native linux fs nowadays, and it's very stable, it's also not too heavy on cpu, and it performs reasonably well under most circumstances. Both reiser4 and ext4 are experimental fs's (ext4 is probably in a more delicate state right now, but I wouldn't use either of them for anything critical), so, if you use them and screw yourself up, don't complain.

Quote:
Moreover, i found terrible problem with gentoo and reiser4 fs: i CANT found any live CD/DVD/anyD :x distribution with reiser4 FS support into kernel. Ye, those distros had reiser4progs, so u can format partion, but u cant mount it after :/ or maybe i missed somthing :!: :?:
So can u tell me how can i mount reiser4 partion?


Can't give you any concrete direction. I know that there were Gentoo based (non-official) cd's with reiser4 support. But I don't know if any of these is still maintained/developed. Anyway, to install Gentoo you don't need a Gentoo livecd, any linux livecd with reiser4 support will do. Of course I am talking about handbook-guided manual installation.

My advise is to use ext3 where data safety is important, and ext2 elsewhere (note however that fsck times for ext2 on big partitions will be a real pain in the ass, since it doesn't do journaling).

Of course, opinions are free and this is just mine.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try the sysresccd, its based on gentoo and is updated more often so supports more hardware, but it also supports reiser4.
www.sysresccd.org
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: okey ) Reply with quote

thank you, guys, for your help.

some hour ago i tried install Sabayon 3.5, i had tried to install / on ext4 :). /boot must be on etx3 :) he doesnt know about ext4 pfff stupid grub )

so, after install, all went okey, sabayon really looking cool. BUT ext4 is impossible slow (for me) . Compiling ghc was finished like freeze my system. CPU usage 99% :) after that Part.magic solved my issues :)

now iam going back to ext3 and gonna wait like all of us for magic filesystem.

ps: I had a period in my 'electronic' life when i installed OS 5 and more times per day. so now iam want relax :)


cheeers )
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=121484256609183&w=2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Reiser4, use the System Rescue CD, as suggested above. I use it myself. And by the way, I've been a very happy Reiser4 user for years now. In my personal experience it is the most stable filesystem I have ever used.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys. I've exact same problem as described below.
I don't want to sound stupid, but which rescue Cd are you talking about? Gentoo Live CD :?:
I never had luck with live cds. I have really slow inet, so I don't want to waste time dl'in it you know?
Could you tell me please does it work?
TIA.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They meant this: http://www.sysresccd.org
It works, I used it :)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you.

1 hour, 50 minutes remaining :lol:

I have stage 4 backup ready to be extracted on my new HDD :D
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
For Reiser4, use the System Rescue CD, as suggested above. I use it myself. And by the way, I've been a very happy Reiser4 user for years now. In my personal experience it is the most stable filesystem I have ever used.


the only thing is: if you use compression, fsck always finds 'errors'. There AFAIR there is a switch to turn that off but I can't find it anymore.

EDIT: but apart from hardware errors reiser4&fsck has been very good for me since I started using it.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the only thing is: if you use compression, fsck always finds 'errors'. There AFAIR there is a switch to turn that off but I can't find it anymore.


Code:
fsck.reiser4 -q -n /dev/foo
:D

you can't since the linux-kernel doesn't support stuff reiser4 does, so just suppress those warnings, after that you'll get fixable errors,

to be sure data is consistent, "fix" it via --fix

if you're paranoid do
Code:
fsck.reiser4 -q -n /dev/foo
again ;)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, it 'fixes' that 'corruption' but all the long list of semi-false positives might cover up some real corruption.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont use compression, and things are just fine. :wink:
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
I dont use compression, and things are just fine. :wink:


things in normal usage are fine - but fsck always finds something to complain about because the compressed files are smaller than expected - well the good thing: after fsck df shows much more free space ;)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the answer about false fsck errors:
Quote:
Yes, the kernel doesn't support i_bytes and i_blocks of compressed files
(because of performance reason), but fsck expects this to be set properly.
The option -n suppresses the screams..

And more:
Quote:
Edward:
Ignore reports about wrong bytes.
This is because cryptcompress plugin doesn't keep a track about bytes,
and fsck calculates and insert correct value. Keeping a track of bytes
by kernel leads to performance drop (even worse then with atime), so
we decided to not support it.

Maybe a patch should be proposed if it annoys you? :)
More info: http://marc.info/?t=120397635400001&r=1&w=2

btw. I always advise to use compression because if it works things are way faster and if it doesn't it's all the same as plain reiser4 (maybe some funky multimedia files can be false positive as compressable).
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: About LiveCD Reply with quote

Code:
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download


problem is its doesnt support AMD64. I had AMD64 notebook, Gentoo for amd64 too. so i cant chrooting from this 32b live cd into my 64b stage3 :(
u know what i mean ... :(
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: About LiveCD Reply with quote

gelog wrote:
Code:
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download


problem is its doesnt support AMD64. I had AMD64 notebook, Gentoo for amd64 too. so i cant chrooting from this 32b live cd into my 64b stage3 :(
u know what i mean ... :(


google didnt help me :? so i think there is one cool method to do it.

just install small linux amd64 distribution --> re-compiling kernel (mean switch on Reiser4 support) --> do chroot 8O --> contionuing with installation

omg... i hope its only my critical imagination, couse i deep dream that there is other method to make it
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: About LiveCD Reply with quote

gelog wrote:
gelog wrote:
Code:
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download


problem is its doesnt support AMD64. I had AMD64 notebook, Gentoo for amd64 too. so i cant chrooting from this 32b live cd into my 64b stage3 :(
u know what i mean ... :(


google didnt help me :? so i think there is one cool method to do it.

just install small linux amd64 distribution --> re-compiling kernel (mean switch on Reiser4 support) --> do chroot 8O --> contionuing with installation

omg... i hope its only my critical imagination, couse i deep dream that there is other method to make it


take a peek at the link in my signature (unofficial livecds and stages from Neo2 with amd64 + x86 support ;) )

you're not forced to use my outdated livecds ;)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to pop in and also vouch for reiser4 + compression.

I have my root and home partitions as reiser4 with lzo1 compression on my laptop (Thinkpad X41) with a slow 4200 rpm hard drive and I noticed a *HUGE* performance boost over my old ext3 partition. Originally, I had a clone of the root partition with ext3 and reiser4, and I tried them both. From a fresh Gentoo install, the ext3 root partition took up 2.7gb while the reiser4+lzo1 partition took up 1.2gb. This is particularly handy with my relatively small 40gb hard drive.

The other nice thing is emerge --sync and emerge search is also 3-5 times faster with reiser4+lzo1. It even outperforms my desktop which is on a 7200rpm SATA2 drive with ext3.

Although as others have mentioned, I also get those false positive fsck checks on almost every boot. I just noticed the recommended flags to run it with, I'll give it a try once it finishes fsck'ing. ;-)

- shazow
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: About LiveCD Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:
gelog wrote:
gelog wrote:
Code:
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download


problem is its doesnt support AMD64. I had AMD64 notebook, Gentoo for amd64 too. so i cant chrooting from this 32b live cd into my 64b stage3 :(
u know what i mean ... :(


google didnt help me :? so i think there is one cool method to do it.

just install small linux amd64 distribution --> re-compiling kernel (mean switch on Reiser4 support) --> do chroot 8O --> contionuing with installation

omg... i hope its only my critical imagination, couse i deep dream that there is other method to make it


take a peek at the link in my signature (unofficial livecds and stages from Neo2 with amd64 + x86 support ;) )

you're not forced to use my outdated livecds ;)


you are my god :idea: :D :idea:

2 min to downloading complete and iam going to INSTAAAAL !!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: About LiveCD Reply with quote

gelog wrote:
Code:
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download

problem is its doesnt support AMD64.

It does. The x86 cd also has a 64bits kernel which enables you to chroot into an amd64 stage3.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just curious what people's recommendations are for a backup drive FS. I have a terabyte drive that I'm going to use to backup up four systems and I was originally going to go with tried and true ext3 until I saw how much drive space was wasted compared to some of my XFS drives. The I started to consider reiser3 for the tail option and small file speed, but if I'm going to be frequently rsyncing to this drive, I'm worried about the fragmented mess that might result after a year or two.

Most of my backup data will consist of small system files, but there will also be a few extremely large Windows image backups. I've never used reiser for large files, but I can't stand using ext3 with them, so I can't imagine reiser being any better there.

I guess I'll ultimately go with XFS since I don't have to worry about power outages or system instability (during a simple backup). But reiser would probably be better if not for the fragmentation/stability problems. What would your guys use for stability, maximized drive space, and very diverse file sizes?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
EDIT: but apart from hardware errors reiser4&fsck has been very good for me since I started using it.


How's reiser4+cryptcompress for people with power problems etc? I'm seriously tired of ext3 (the fsync issues are driving me nuts, I got some abusive software I can't really stop using), and I'm thinking reiser4 for both / and $HOME, and backups every 24/7 :p.

My main worries (huge ones) :
Silent corruption : if I get errors I dont notice, and they overwrite my backup, that'd be.. very bad.
Power failures/hardlocks etc : I've been using suspend2ram for a while, and gotten really used to it, but I got an nvidia card in this computer right now (and it stays until ati open source gets pal tvout) and it occasionally hardlocks me. I need to be able to boot up again after ;)
Vmware/Virtualbox : Will it work? I know loopback doesn't. Although this isn't a huge issue, I can put those images on my main storage drive (XFS).

I'm also a bit unsure about encryption solution, right now I got my $HOME encrypted with luks, but having kcryptd do all the writes leads to latency issues (CFQ can't prioritize what it doesn't recognize), I'm considering ecryptfs, has anyone tried that fs?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neuron wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
EDIT: but apart from hardware errors reiser4&fsck has been very good for me since I started using it.


How's reiser4+cryptcompress for people with power problems etc? I'm seriously tired of ext3 (the fsync issues are driving me nuts, I got some abusive software I can't really stop using), and I'm thinking reiser4 for both / and $HOME, and backups every 24/7 :p.

My main worries (huge ones) :
Silent corruption : if I get errors I dont notice, and they overwrite my backup, that'd be.. very bad.
Power failures/hardlocks etc : I've been using suspend2ram for a while, and gotten really used to it, but I got an nvidia card in this computer right now (and it stays until ati open source gets pal tvout) and it occasionally hardlocks me. I need to be able to boot up again after ;)
...

I had a lot of hard reboots before I got UPS and stopped playing with kernel.
Reiser4 never let me down. By design it's atomic fs so eaither file is written or it's not.
I suggest r4+cryptocompress(LZO1 ofc) , and before backup do a fsck because it checksums your data (real checksumming, cc plugin does that). AFAIK r4 checksums while you use it.
As for fsync heavy apps I'm not so sure. You may encounter slowdowns with that, but best would be to try R4.
If you have a lot of big files (like movies and .iso) XFS is better AFAIK.
I've just defragmented r4 after 1 year and can't notice any differences. Maybe because I'm using compression
Oh and loopback doesn't work for cryptocompress files, but works for ordinary unix plugin. There is a way to set your loopback file to unix plugin, search the reiserfs-devel m-l.

Have fun
Dushan
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