| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
rahulthewall
Veteran
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 1264
Location: Zürich
|
 Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Here, some kde4 specific use configuration.
| Code: |
### KDE4 Stuff -> That is stuff which needs qt4/qt3, and other random nonsense
app-misc/strigi qt4
kde-base/kscreensaver opengl
kde-base/ark archive zip
kde-base/kwin opengl
|
And here are my global use variables:
| Code: |
USE="X a52 aac acpi alsa -arts avahi bash-completion -bindist bluetooth \
branding bzip2 cairo cdparanoia cdr crypt css ctype cups curl curlwrappers \
cxx dbus dga djvu dri dvd dvdr dts -esd exif fam fbcon ffmpeg flac fontconfig
gd gif gimp -gnome gnutls gphoto2 gpm -gstreamer -gtk hal \
hddtemp htmlhandbook ieee1394 imagemagick ipv6 java java6 javascript joystick jpeg \
jpeg2k -kde libnotify lm_sensors mad mmx motif mp3 mpeg ncurses nls nptl \
nptlonly ogg oss pcmcia png posix ppds -qt3 qt3support -qt4 quicktime readline \
real samba scanner smp sndfile spell sse sse2 sse3 startup-notification svg \
svga syslog theora threads tiff truetype type1 unicode usb v4l v4l2 vcd \
vim-syntax vorbis wavpack win32codecs wmf xcomposite xine xinerama xml xpm \
xulrunner xv xvid zeroconf zlib"
|
With this I run into no problems. 
By the way, KDE4.1 is hard masked as well. Just concatenate all the files in the folder /usr/local/portage/layman/kdesvn-portage/Documentation/portage/package.unmask/ to package.unmask.
_________________
Who shall guard the guards? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
step
Apprentice
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 198
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Carlo wrote: | | The answer is the same as it has always been: It's ready, when it's ready. Not sooner, not later, no date. |
I know, that this thread is allready way off topic but what a hell...
I am starting to think that the delays with KDE are closely related to serious organizational problems in Gentoo (search for "trustees" etc).
I personally think, that attitude like "It's done when it's done" and " It's ready, when it's ready. Not sooner, not later, no date." is utter bull shit and just shows the lack of leadership in Gentoo community.
Looks like this problem is spreading through Gentoo like obesity in USA.
Look at the #gentoo-kde topic! It's a joke! It says "Next bump: 4.1.0 (final, no ETA) | KDE herd meeting (some date, some time, here).
Agenda: http://tinyurl.com/3p97co "
This link has a 3+ months old agenda.
| Code: | Agenda for the Gentoo KDE herd meeting on Thursday, 1st of May 2008
1. Stabilisation of KDE 3.5.9.
2. New EAPI kdebuild-1.
3. Removal of KDE 3.5.8 from the tree.
4. State of KDE4 in the tree and the official KDE overlay.
5. Herd Testers: Current state and next steps.
6. Review of the project page.
7. Miscellaneous.
8. Date of the next meeting and closing.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Punraz
n00b
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Aachen Germany
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
And on another bombshell:
One week has passed since KDE 4.1.0 was released, KDE 4.1.1 will be there in another three weeks and we don't have a date, not even an estimate on when KDE 4.1.0 will be given to us mortal underlings...
Cheers
punraz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Voltago
Advocate
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 2593
Location: userland
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| step wrote: | | [some crap not worth repeating] |
| Punraz wrote: | | And on another bombshell |
If that isn't ok with you, maybe you should get another group of suckers (i. e. developers) to work for you for free. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rahulthewall
Veteran
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 1264
Location: Zürich
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Can someone please explain to me why is it essential to have kde-4.1 in the official tree. If ebuilds are available from an overlay and kde4.1 can be installed using those very ebuilds and it works as well, why does the issue of having it in the tree so important to merit 5 pages worth of comments and accusations?
_________________
Who shall guard the guards? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Punraz
n00b
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Aachen Germany
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rahulthewall3000 wrote: | | Can someone please explain to me why is it essential to have kde-4.1 in the official tree. If ebuilds are available from an overlay and kde4.1 can be installed using those very ebuilds and it works as well, why does the issue of having it in the tree so important to merit 5 pages worth of comments and accusations? |
Why use a crutch if you've got two legs of your own? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
natros
n00b
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 70
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rahulthewall3000 wrote: | | Can someone please explain to me why is it essential to have kde-4.1 in the official tree. If ebuilds are available from an overlay and kde4.1 can be installed using those very ebuilds and it works as well, why does the issue of having it in the tree so important to merit 5 pages worth of comments and accusations? |
Why should we use the ebuild from the overlays if we can download the source from kde? Maybe we shouldn't have a tree.
Can I trust the ebuilds from the overlay?
Is it possible to make a transition in a easy way from kde in the overlay to the kde in the official tree?
Can I submit bug reports using the overlay?
_________________
-=[abit ip35 pro core2quad q6600 (oc 3.0 ghz) 8 gb ram 2x320 raid0 ext4 xfx8800gt 512mb]=- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nerdanel
Apprentice
Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Finland
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I wonder if 4.1 would be out already in the portage tree if they were still using monolithic ebuiltds. I can only imagine the added complexity from sorting out internal dependencies and USE flags. I think the Gentoo KDE team is not in a condition at the moment to get slowed and distracted by doing things in the most complex way possible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
StifflerStealth
Retired Dev
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 968
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Using an overlay is not a "crutch". In fact, it makes more sense to have a tree broken up into smaller pieces instead of a large one. The large one takes more time to sync and not everyone uses KDE, so it makes more sense to draw in the ebuilds you want rather than having everything. Sometimes less is truly more.
@Neranel: KDE would not be out sooner if it was monolithic. KDE is a very complicated beast. There are also issues like some items are still in trunk when they work with KDE 4.1.x like the plasma applets and such, so they need to figure out ways of providing that. Have a look at the svn sometime and you will see what I mean. It's a bit of mess. They really do need to clean it up. It's just horrible.
The KDE team releases ebuilds that do not break the system too easily, so cut them some slack. The ebuilds will be here when they are here. We go through this each and every single time there is a KDE release. It really get's tiring, so please stop acting like whinny children and stop asking when something will be released into portage. It's released when it is released. Until then, you have overlays which sometmes offer more than what can get into portage due to the strictness of portage.
_________________
Nothing to read in this sig. Move along. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peter4
Guru
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 359
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| One quick question: how do I localize KDE 4.1? There's no kde-i18n for 4.1 in the overlay. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darksidex25
Apprentice
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 232
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| peter4 wrote: | | One quick question: how do I localize KDE 4.1? There's no kde-i18n for 4.1 in the overlay. |
It is now kde-base/kde-l10n
_________________
Registered User #422798 - http://counter.li.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peter4
Guru
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 359
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shaumux
Veteran
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 1009
Location: Hong Kong
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Darksidex25 wrote: | | It is now kde-base/kde-l10n |
KDE site states that i18n is Internationalization and l10n is localization.
What's the difference? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
coolsnowmen
Veteran
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 1479
Location: No.VA
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Paraphrase | rahulthewall3000 wrote: | | Why do wee need kde-4.1 in the tree when we have overlays |
| Punraz wrote: | | Why use a crutch if you've got two legs of your own? |
Dear Punraz, I must assume: crutch = overlays, and twolegs = main tree
But that metaphor fails
Why? because you don't have portage tree ebuilds. So you can't use the twolegs, you must use the crutch.
_________________
emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "moo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rahulthewall
Veteran
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 1264
Location: Zürich
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| natros wrote: | | rahulthewall3000 wrote: | | Can someone please explain to me why is it essential to have kde-4.1 in the official tree. If ebuilds are available from an overlay and kde4.1 can be installed using those very ebuilds and it works as well, why does the issue of having it in the tree so important to merit 5 pages worth of comments and accusations? |
Why should we use the ebuild from the overlays if we can download the source from kde? Maybe we shouldn't have a tree.
Can I trust the ebuilds from the overlay?
Is it possible to make a transition in a easy way from kde in the overlay to the kde in the official tree?
Can I submit bug reports using the overlay? |
1. How do you define trust? Sure, they take no guarantee that it won't break your system, but then it could be argued that is true in varying degrees for open source software. If people are using it (I am) and have no problems, then I guess you could trust the community. (I did)
2. Why not, when 4.1 hits the main tree, just remove the overlay, and do an emerge -avuDN world. All the packages from the overlay that are there in the main tree will be overbuilt as the ebuild source would have changed. If there are any packages that you installed from the overlay and they are not there in the main tree, portage will tell you about it. You can then get them from the overlay or find them in the portage tree again as sometimes there are some differences in naming the packages.
3. You cannot submit bugs to gentoo bugzilla, but you can report your bugs to kde. The only bug that I have right now (NTFS not automounted) is documented on KDE bugzilla.
_________________
Who shall guard the guards? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sonicbhoc
Veteran
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1805
Location: In front of the computer screen
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, due to circumstances beyond my control, I can't use SVN to get the KDE 4 packages, and I prefer to let Portage handle the packages (not that I can't build from source, I just like having everything in one place) so I have to wait for KDE 4.1 to hit the tree. Not that I mind waiting. The new features are going to be worth the wait. Maybe kwin will have eye-candy that will match Compiz Fusion someday...
Anyway, my view is that overlays aren't bad. Almost every Linux distro splits their trees up. It helps with organization, prioritization, and allows the user to fine-tune even more what they want on their system.
_________________
I'm too lazy to keep this stupid signature up to date, so here's something more interesting:
My friend Hetdegon can draw if you ask me.
Now using PClinuxOS on my laptop and Gentoo on my desktop and new laptop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tom.voss
n00b
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| StifflerStealth wrote: | Using an overlay is not a "crutch". In fact, it makes more sense to have a tree broken up into smaller pieces instead of a large one. The large one takes more time to sync and not everyone uses KDE, so it makes more sense to draw in the ebuilds you want rather than having everything. Sometimes less is truly more.
|
Perhaps having multiple repositories may be more ideal. Perhaps it would make sense to have a separate official repository for KDE packages, or at least KDE4 ones (assuming that multiple repositories was made more natural using the emerge PM and that using them became "standard procedure"). However, the issue here really is people wanting stable ebuilds that they can trust, and people are naturally more trusting of ebuilds in the official portage tree. I think the convenience of being in the main tree is a factor too, given that overlays aren't as easy to use as the main tree currently - but I think as much of it is people concerned with the long-term maintainability of their machines and wondering if using overlays is the smartest option . . .
| StifflerStealth wrote: |
The KDE team releases ebuilds that do not break the system too easily, so cut them some slack. The ebuilds will be here when they are here. We go through this each and every single time there is a KDE release. It really get's tiring, so please stop acting like whinny children and stop asking when something will be released into portage. It's released when it is released. Until then, you have overlays which sometmes offer more than what can get into portage due to the strictness of portage. |
I think most here are very appreciative of what all the devs do for us, and if anyone isn't they're not worth listening to. I understand and appreciate that getting things to where you're comfortable with takes some time. You're probably right that sometimes people need to "stop acting like whinny children." People are asking for ebuilds in the main portage tree because then they know they're more likely to be stable . . . yet they're unwilling to wait for that stability.
However, I think "asking when something will be released into portage" is legitimate. I know, it's impossible to know when ebuilds will be ready as they are released on a features/stability basis (as they should be) instead of on a calendar basis; however, I think that part of a project's duty is to communicate with end users. I think Gentooers, myself included, get a bit obsessed with KDE/Gentoo/Linux/etc. and are very curious to poke around with whatever's new. If nothing else an "I don't expect it to be ready before this date" sort of statement would mean I wouldn't waste my time until this date has passed blindly checking http://packages.gentoo.org to see if anything's been released. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Etal
Veteran
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 1931
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sonicbhoc wrote: | | Well, due to circumstances beyond my control, I can't use SVN to get the KDE 4 packages, and I prefer to let Portage handle the packages (not that I can't build from source, I just like having everything in one place) so I have to wait for KDE 4.1 to hit the tree. |
Actually, although it's called kdesvn-portage, it actually provides regular non-svn KDE releases.
_________________
“And even in authoritarian countries, information networks are helping people discover new facts and making governments more accountable.”– Hillary Clinton, Jan. 21, 2010 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darksidex25
Apprentice
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 232
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| shaumux wrote: | | Darksidex25 wrote: | | It is now kde-base/kde-l10n |
KDE site states that i18n is Internationalization and l10n is localization.
What's the difference? |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization
From wikipedia:
| Quote: |
Internationalization is the process of designing a software application so that it can be adapted to various languages and regions without engineering changes. Localization is the process of adapting software for a specific region or language by adding locale-specific components and translating text.
|
But this is off topic, I think.
_________________
Registered User #422798 - http://counter.li.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
StifflerStealth
Retired Dev
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 968
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tom.voss wrote: | | However, I think "asking when something will be released into portage" is legitimate. I know, it's impossible to know when ebuilds will be ready as they are released on a features/stability basis (as they should be) instead of on a calendar basis; however, I think that part of a project's duty is to communicate with end users. I think Gentooers, myself included, get a bit obsessed with KDE/Gentoo/Linux/etc. and are very curious to poke around with whatever's new. If nothing else an "I don't expect it to be ready before this date" sort of statement would mean I wouldn't waste my time until this date has passed blindly checking http://packages.gentoo.org to see if anything's been released. |
No. Asking when something will be realeased only slows devs down. In case you haven't noticed, the devs really don't answer those questions anyways, so it's a waste of time to ask and only causes more frustration when said question is not asked. It's one of those things best not answered.
_________________
Nothing to read in this sig. Move along. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bytenirvana
Apprentice
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Volksstaat Hessen
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| <3 wrote: | | (...) why can't the devs just "borrow" the KDE ebuilds from one of the overlays and incorporate those into portage. (...) Is it more complicated that just coping the ebuilds from the overlays? |
From what I read I believe the KDE4.1 ebuilds in the overlay doesn't support useflags. However I'm not into ebuilds the way I could, I don't even know where to start.
| <3 wrote: |
Instead of placing the ebuilds on the overlays why not just use the official tree and just hard mask them like we used to do? (...) I suspect that there is a reason as to why there aren't any KDE 4.1 ebuilds in the main tree yet. |
My guess would be that is just breaks/won't compile. This would be a behaviour I exspect from a masked package. But like everyone else I would like to know the real reason too.
_________________
Linux User #422770 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shaumux
Veteran
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 1009
Location: Hong Kong
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bytenirvana wrote: | | From what I read I believe the KDE4.1 ebuilds in the overlay doesn't support useflags. However I'm not into ebuilds the way I could, I don't even know where to start. |
What use flags are you talking about i found all the use flags i would need it even has use flags in kde-meta package.
| bytenirvana wrote: | | My guess would be that is just breaks/won't compile. This would be a behaviour I exspect from a masked package. But like everyone else I would like to know the real reason too. |
Well I have been running kde 4.1 from the overlay for more than a week, no breaking and it certailnly compiled. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
step
Apprentice
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 198
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | No. Asking when something will be realeased only slows devs down. In case you haven't noticed, the devs really don't answer those questions anyways, so it's a waste of time to ask and only causes more frustration when said question is not asked. It's one of those things best not answered. |
Wow! What a load of crap...
BTW, I was told that majority of KDE team has left Gentoo and now works at Exherbo. 
This question "when it will be out" is not a hard question to answer if the remaining KDE team has a leader with a plan/schedule.
Sounds like this "evil question" becomes a "problem" every time there is a new KDE version out.
Its is easy to fix! Make a schedule and publish the damn thing. BTW, the KDE release schedule is avaliable at the KDE.org, for frack sake! Can Gentoo KDE team leader read it and make some future plans?
This "do not ask blaa blaa blaa" sounds more like: "Dear KDE users in Gentoo community, pleas go and frack yourself!"
How sad is that? Is this good for Gentoo PR? Probably not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carlo
Developer
Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 3356
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| step wrote: | | I personally think, that attitude like "It's done when it's done" and " It's ready, when it's ready. Not sooner, not later, no date." is utter bull shit and just shows the lack of leadership in Gentoo community. |
And what is the childish "stamping with foot, yelling i want it know" attitude uttered here?! Personally I planned to start to have a look at KDE 4.1 next weekend. Now, there is a familly event I didn't think of and I really have to remind myself that this thread really cannot represent average Gentoo KDE user, because it lessens my interest to work on KDE 4 packaging substantially. You know, I'm interested in KDE 4, but I'm not interested in pleasing early adopters. You're interested in it!? Continue here.
| Punraz wrote: | | Why use a crutch if you've got two legs of your own? |
Grouching about your personal slave not being fast enough does not come anyway near to walking on your own feet. Do a reality check, please! Over the years I work for free for Gentoo it never happened that KDE had a decent number of maintainers, but enough people with a mouth big wide open, you could park a truck in it.
| step wrote: | | BTW, I was told that majority of KDE team has left Gentoo and now works at Exherbo. |
It's a bit more complicated than that.
_________________
Please make sure that you have searched for an answer to a question after reading all the relevant docs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfden
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 102
Location: Midwest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Carlo wrote: | | step wrote: | | I personally think, that attitude like "It's done when it's done" and " It's ready, when it's ready. Not sooner, not later, no date." is utter bull shit and just shows the lack of leadership in Gentoo community. |
And what is the childish "stamping with foot, yelling i want it know" attitude uttered here?! Personally I planned to start to have a look at KDE 4.1 next weekend. Now, there is a familly event I didn't think of and I really have to remind myself that this thread really cannot represent average Gentoo KDE user, because it lessens my interest to work on KDE 4 packaging substantially. You know, I'm interested in KDE 4, but I'm not interested in pleasing early adopters. You're interested in it!? Continue here.
| Punraz wrote: | | Why use a crutch if you've got two legs of your own? |
Grouching about your personal slave not being fast enough does not come anyway near to walking on your own feet. Do a reality check, please! Over the years I work for free for Gentoo it never happened that KDE had a decent number of maintainers, but enough people with a mouth big wide open, you could park a truck in it.
| step wrote: | | BTW, I was told that majority of KDE team has left Gentoo and now works at Exherbo. |
It's a bit more complicated than that. |
+1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Gentoo Chat
