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Double Click
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 21 May 2004
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 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:48 am Post subject: General questions |
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Want to try out Gentoo on my laptop - after not using it for close to 4 years. My idea is to have a pretty slim base install and then run my day to day things either directly from the Gentoo host or Gentoo virtual guest(s).
- What GUI would be interesting to try, based on customizability and also glitz (e.g. menu transparancy without tearing when moving the windows, clear borders and fonts, etc). I would also not mind having only command prompt access (but obviously running at my native resolution) and e.g. switch between command prompt screen/virtual desktops to fire up the respective virtual guest and screen switch back to host. Would that be possible? Straight of the bat I would require 4 screens for instance for my day to day work - host command prompt, domain joined windows desktop, remote desktop to windows servers and the last for anything else that need to be running in background for troubleshooting (e.g. ping, tracert, ssh connections, etc)
- I am most properly going to use my registered copy of VMware Workstation 8.0 with Gentoo as I have some virtual machines I would like to import directly from my previous laptop installation. As far as I can see this should not be a problem running the VMware Workstation 8.0 binaries but would like to hear what the community experience is and weather a more recommended virtualization product for Gentoo is suggested.
- Is there any specific kernel options I should concider (except the obvious like e.g. enabling power management options as it is running from a laptop) for my descripted purpose?
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Splink
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:35 am Post subject: |
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I do something similar although only 2 screens.
I run gnome 3.2 and decided to switch of transparency because it was getting a little difficult to read. What they have done in gnome 3 is not used compiz or emerald for the rendering of the desktop so some opengl settings might not be available.
I use vmware workstation on my pc and work on windows7 on there, and switch to console connections and back to linux if needed just by using the default alt-tab. Probably not what you want setup but it suits me fine.
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Double Click
Tux's lil' helper
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Sounds extremly close to what I have in mind.
Did you use any specific USE flags or kernel?
In regards to the kernel - currently doing the install and decided to use genkernel to create a generic kernel to just get me up. Then after the installation compile a custom kernel which then will be used for production on the laptop and the genkernel as a fallback. Is this okay?
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Chiitoo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Teegrins, Double Click!
| Double Click wrote: | | In regards to the kernel - currently doing the install and decided to use genkernel to create a generic kernel to just get me up. Then after the installation compile a custom kernel which then will be used for production on the laptop and the genkernel as a fallback. Is this okay? |
That is, of course, just fine. It's basically how I went with it before I took the jump to do configure it myself.
However, even Genkernel doesn't always do the right things, and always does more than is needed (I think). ^^;
You might be interested in Pappy's Kernel Seeds.
If you haven't bumped into it yet, check here:
I haven't tried this method personally, but it is widely suggested, and if I understand it right without looking into it more than what I have, it does basically the same as Genkernel, but without the unnecessary 'bloat' and assuming (i.e., building in everything there is to build).
Not to mention it will not in some cases build in the required 'rare' stuff that some systems and set-ups may need, or at least that's what I remember often reading.
That, and it may provide an easier starting point for the manual configuration, I would think.
Though by just having lspci -k (or/and lsusb) when running, say, SystemRescueCd, or any other medium (such as Genkernel) where the system is up and running will be able to give you the most(?) important information that is the kernel modules being used for your devices.
Then you can just search for the listed modules in menuconfig by using the / key.
Just some thoughts~
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Double Click
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 21 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Chiitoo wrote: | Teegrins, Double Click!
| Double Click wrote: | | In regards to the kernel - currently doing the install and decided to use genkernel to create a generic kernel to just get me up. Then after the installation compile a custom kernel which then will be used for production on the laptop and the genkernel as a fallback. Is this okay? |
That is, of course, just fine. It's basically how I went with it before I took the jump to do configure it myself.
However, even Genkernel doesn't always do the right things, and always does more than is needed (I think). ^^;
You might be interested in Pappy's Kernel Seeds.
If you haven't bumped into it yet, check here:
I haven't tried this method personally, but it is widely suggested, and if I understand it right without looking into it more than what I have, it does basically the same as Genkernel, but without the unnecessary 'bloat' and assuming (i.e., building in everything there is to build).
Not to mention it will not in some cases build in the required 'rare' stuff that some systems and set-ups may need, or at least that's what I remember often reading.
That, and it may provide an easier starting point for the manual configuration, I would think.
Though by just having lspci -k (or/and lsusb) when running, say, SystemRescueCd, or any other medium (such as Genkernel) where the system is up and running will be able to give you the most(?) important information that is the kernel modules being used for your devices.
Then you can just search for the listed modules in menuconfig by using the / key.
Just some thoughts~ |
Thanks for the info - just finished the install and went straight into changing some options for the X and NVIDIA driver installation but got a failure from genkernel. Will have to wrap my mind around this as it has been a real long time since I have done this.
EDIT: By the way - if I emerge another kernel source does it update the /usr/src/linux directory so if I type in make menuconfig does it actually take my current kernel settings or that of the newly downloaded kernel source package?
EDIT: Okay - so Pappy's Kernel seed is just a easy to follow document on how to manually configure a kernel manually? Basically it makes sense of the lspci output and based on that use this to manually check these options are enabled during the menuconfig?
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Chiitoo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Double Click wrote: | | EDIT: By the way - if I emerge another kernel source does it update the /usr/src/linux directory so if I type in make menuconfig does it actually take my current kernel settings or that of the newly downloaded kernel source package? |
Firstly, I always use eselect for setting the symlink target.
| Code: | | eselect kernel list |
Will list the available kernel symlink targets, and the currently selected one is marked with a * as seen here:
| Code: | eselect kernel list
Available kernel symlink targets:
[1] linux-2.6.38-gentoo-r6
[2] linux-2.6.39-gentoo-r3
[3] linux-3.0.6-gentoo
[4] linux-3.1.6-gentoo
[5] linux-3.2.1-gentoo-r2 * |
Another command for showing the selected target:
| Code: | eselect kernel show
Current kernel symlink:
/usr/src/linux-3.2.1-gentoo-r2 |
The following would change it to the number 4.
| Code: | | eselect kernel set 4 |
Probably quite obvious, and very likely there's nothing new about that but doesn't hurt to mention it, methinks.
As for the configuration, there is make oldconfig, which may not always be too 'safe'.
I never tried that, actually, but instead, I copy my previous .config over to the new sources, and go through them with menuconfig to check the new options and so on.
Check here for more details:
| Double Click wrote: | | EDIT: Okay - so Pappy's Kernel seed is just a easy to follow document on how to manually configure a kernel manually? Basically it makes sense of the lspci output and based on that use this to manually check these options are enabled during the menuconfig? |
In short, yeah, I think that's about right.
I haven't really looked into it in detail, so that's pretty much how I see it, too.
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Double Click
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 21 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Chiitoo wrote: | | Double Click wrote: | | EDIT: By the way - if I emerge another kernel source does it update the /usr/src/linux directory so if I type in make menuconfig does it actually take my current kernel settings or that of the newly downloaded kernel source package? |
Firstly, I always use eselect for setting the symlink target.
| Code: | | eselect kernel list |
Will list the available kernel symlink targets, and the currently selected one is marked with a * as seen here:
| Code: | eselect kernel list
Available kernel symlink targets:
[1] linux-2.6.38-gentoo-r6
[2] linux-2.6.39-gentoo-r3
[3] linux-3.0.6-gentoo
[4] linux-3.1.6-gentoo
[5] linux-3.2.1-gentoo-r2 * |
Another command for showing the selected target:
| Code: | eselect kernel show
Current kernel symlink:
/usr/src/linux-3.2.1-gentoo-r2 |
The following would change it to the number 4.
| Code: | | eselect kernel set 4 |
Probably quite obvious, and very likely there's nothing new about that but doesn't hurt to mention it, methinks.
As for the configuration, there is make oldconfig, which may not always be too 'safe'.
I never tried that, actually, but instead, I copy my previous .config over to the new sources, and go through them with menuconfig to check the new options and so on.
Check here for more details:
| Double Click wrote: | | EDIT: Okay - so Pappy's Kernel seed is just a easy to follow document on how to manually configure a kernel manually? Basically it makes sense of the lspci output and based on that use this to manually check these options are enabled during the menuconfig? |
In short, yeah, I think that's about right.
I haven't really looked into it in detail, so that's pretty much how I see it, too. |
Thanks - after selecting the new kernel symlink tarket and then running make menuconfig I noticed it still is on the genkernel one i used during my install and not the newly emerged CK one which correctly shows up on the available kernel symlinks.
EDIT: Okay seems after I removed the old genkernel sources and modules directory (which broke my network card) menuconfig now sees the new kernel sources. Manage to set the required options, compiled, copied and set the /boot and bootmanager but seems it is failing as it cannot mount a root filesystem as it seem to try ext3 and I am sure i specified ext4 support as that is all I am running. I will have to create a new .config file and make sure I have the correct settings for filesystem.
Guess this will take a while to get right :/
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Double Click
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think with deleting manually the old kernel sources I screwed things up proper. My genkernel based kernel boots up fine but has cannot load the network drivers - I suspect that was part of the kernels modules directory I whacked.
I manage to set all the filesystem options but still it complains it cannot find a root partition and for some reason it tries ext3. My boot and root are all ext4. I might as well start over as between the messed up manual kernel and the fallback kernel with no network support I have no idea how to fix this quickly.
Is it safe to follow the installation in the official Handbook from the Live DVD install of the minimal CD?
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Chiitoo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Are you absolutely sure you have the grub.conf/lilo.conf and such set up right for the new Kernel?
In any case, what happens if you do compile ext3 there? 
Just a thought.
Unfortunately I can't think of the exact reason off the top of my head (someone else might).
It might be time to post your grub.conf (or lilo), kernel .config, and perhaps lspci -k which would all be very easy by using app-text/wgetpaste but you would need the networking for that...
I don't think there is a reason to start from the beginning.
I think that's only good measure on a system that has not been updated for ages.
As for the installation process, as far as I understand, it doesn't really matter what medium you use as long as the architecture matches the one you want to install.
Edit:
Added notion about lilo since grub is not the only thing there is.
Oopsies.
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Last edited by Chiitoo on Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Double Click
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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lilo.conf
| Code: | boot=/dev/sda
lba32
prompt
timeout=50
default=Fallback
# Genkernel
image=/boot/kernel-genkernel-x86_64-3.2.1-gentoo-r2
label=Fallback
read-only
append="real_root=/dev/sda3"
initrd=/boot/initramfs-genkernel-x86_64-3.2.1-gentoo-r2
# Testing
image=/boot/Test
label=Test
read-only
root=/dev/sda3 |
lspci (from booting first into LiveDVD)
| Quote: |
00:00.0 Host bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP79 Host Bridge (rev b1)
00:00.1 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
00:03.0 ISA bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP79 LPC Bridge (rev b2)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
00:03.1 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
00:03.2 SMBus: nVidia Corporation MCP79 SMBus (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: nForce2_smbus
Kernel modules: i2c-nforce2
00:03.3 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
00:03.5 Co-processor: nVidia Corporation MCP79 Co-processor (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
00:04.0 USB controller: nVidia Corporation MCP79 OHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: ohci_hcd
Kernel modules: ohci-hcd
00:04.1 USB controller: nVidia Corporation MCP79 EHCI USB 2.0 Controller (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: ehci_hcd
Kernel modules: ehci-hcd
00:06.0 USB controller: nVidia Corporation MCP79 OHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: ohci_hcd
Kernel modules: ohci-hcd
00:06.1 USB controller: nVidia Corporation MCP79 EHCI USB 2.0 Controller (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: ehci_hcd
Kernel modules: ehci-hcd
00:08.0 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP79 High Definition Audio (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
Kernel modules: snd-hda-intel
00:09.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP79 PCI Bridge (rev b1)
00:0a.0 Ethernet controller: nVidia Corporation MCP79 Ethernet (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: forcedeth
Kernel modules: forcedeth
00:0b.0 SATA controller: nVidia Corporation MCP79 AHCI Controller (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: ahci
Kernel modules: ahci
00:0c.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
Kernel modules: shpchp
00:10.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
Kernel modules: shpchp
00:15.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
Kernel modules: shpchp
00:16.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
Kernel modules: shpchp
00:17.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
Kernel modules: shpchp
00:18.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
Kernel modules: shpchp
01:07.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Ricoh Co Ltd R5C832 IEEE 1394 Controller (rev 05)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
01:07.1 SD Host controller: Ricoh Co Ltd R5C822 SD/SDIO/MMC/MS/MSPro Host Adapter (rev 22)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: sdhci-pci
Kernel modules: sdhci-pci
01:07.2 System peripheral: Ricoh Co Ltd R5C843 MMC Host Controller (rev 12)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: sdhci-pci
Kernel modules: sdhci-pci
01:07.3 System peripheral: Ricoh Co Ltd R5C592 Memory Stick Bus Host Adapter (rev 12)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
01:07.4 System peripheral: Ricoh Co Ltd xD-Picture Card Controller (rev 12)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G98 [GeForce 9200M GS] (rev a1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: nouveau
Kernel modules: nouveau
03:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C79 [GeForce 9400M G] (rev b1)
Subsystem: Dell Device 0271
Kernel driver in use: nouveau
Kernel modules: nouveau
06:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR928X Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01)
Subsystem: Atheros Communications Inc. Device 0200
Kernel driver in use: ath9k
Kernel modules: ath9k
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Does not seem I can attach the .config file as it is too long. Below is the relevant extract (or so at least I think):
| Quote: |
#
# File systems
#
# CONFIG_EXT2_FS is not set
CONFIG_EXT3_FS=y
# CONFIG_EXT3_DEFAULTS_TO_ORDERED is not set
CONFIG_EXT3_FS_XATTR=y
CONFIG_EXT3_FS_POSIX_ACL=y
CONFIG_EXT3_FS_SECURITY=y
CONFIG_EXT4_FS=y
CONFIG_EXT4_USE_FOR_EXT23=y
CONFIG_EXT4_FS_XATTR=y
CONFIG_EXT4_FS_POSIX_ACL=y
CONFIG_EXT4_FS_SECURITY=y
# CONFIG_EXT4_DEBUG is not set
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Chiitoo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Oh right, lilo exists too, heh, I only ever used grub so I didn't think of that there.
And yeah, for the kernel .config definitely pastebin or something like that would be best, if at any point one is going to post it since they tend to be rather long.
Anyhow, I don't really have more ideas except some additional info you could post, such as your partition layout.
Perhaps the output of command mount, too, when the file-systems are mounted. Also a ls /boot or ls -l /boot might be a good idea just so we can get more personal.
Hmmm, what else... /etc/fstab, maybe?
Though it worked with Genkernel so I'm not sure if that would be helpful.
Just some things I imagine checking myself if I had the issue.
It's probably something really obvious that I'm simply not catching right now...
I'll probably need to sleep over it and check back.
I'm sure someone else gets to it before then, though. ^^
Also, check this FAQ article:
If you don't find the solution, you might want to post a topic specifically for this matter, as you will receive help much better that way.
Good luck!
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cach0rr0
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Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 4123
Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Double Click
You normally get a clue as to what's missing from the kernel from the "unknown block device (x,y)"
if it's 0,0 it means your kernel does not have the driver for your HDD controller as a built-in
if it's 8,y (e.g. 8,2 or 8,3 or whatever) it can see your HDD, it can see your partitions, but it cant mount the specified partition as /
You need to have CONFIG_SATA_AHCI as a built-in (=y and not just =m) within your kernel
you can grep for this in your .config file:
| Code: |
grep SATA_AHCI /path/to/.config
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If this is unset, that is why your kernel is not booting. This is the most commonly missed thing actually, and a prime suspect!
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Chiitoo
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, that is what was haunting me in the back my head.
Was wondering what it was as it was not some giant bug or anything.
I remember now reading you post that somewhere else, cach0rr0, so thanks for the reminder!
~makes a personal note about it now~
Hopefully it will be the cause for this issue as well.
Moreover, Double Click, it was pretty much the same for me during my first install only a bit over a year ago, but once I got it right one or few times, I haven't had trouble since.
I guess it's just a part of the initiation. 
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Double Click
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that cach0rr0, also made a note about this. I have already re-installed the system and will most properly just deal with the gentoo-sources kernel and do it via genkernel as far as possible. I noticed that with genkernel one can invoke the kernel options menu - and choose what to include/exclude. What is the difference of doing it this way with genkernel+menuconfig vs manual? Looks like with the genkernel I can also unselect all the junk I don't need and I am good to go or those it do something else in background?
Another quick question - is there a way to check what all is in use with the current kernel config and use that to create a new kernel config with only these options and no other options enabled or modules enabled?
By the way - I ran your command again the genkernel config and get the following:
| Quote: |
CONFIG_SATA_AHCI=m
# CONFIG_SATA_AHCI_PLATFORM is not set
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This at first was weird as I am booting up fine but seeing SATA/AHCI support is configure here with the 'm' which I assume denotes a module which means it will load it as needed. Correct me if I am wrong with my understanding on this please. Currently now busy trying to setup my framebuffer support, nvidia drivers, X and Gnome.
..... and yes - I derailed my own post :/
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Chiitoo
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed there is the --menuconfig switch for Genkernel and when used, I guess it doesn't much differ from doing it completely without Genkernel, except that there is probably a lot more to disable.
The main difference might be in that, when using Genkernel, you will be using an initrd (initial ramdisk), which is used during boot-up to auto-detect your hardware (much like when using a LiveDvD and such), which also is probably the reason the kernel driver you point out there is built as a module.
When no initrd is used, the drivers needed at boot-time must be built-in (if I understand it all right, still very much learning myself).
There are other uses for initrd/initramfs as well, but not generally needed if Genkernel is not used.
That said, starting from udev-181, an initrd/initramfs may become a lot more common practice from the looks of it since it is one of the ways to retain separate /usr (and more?) directories. According to some comments here, it may not support booting without one at all.
We shall see what becomes of it all.
| Double Click wrote: | | Another quick question - is there a way to check what all is in use with the current kernel config and use that to create a new kernel config with only these options and no other options enabled or modules enabled? |
Basically lspci, lsusb, lsmod should show pretty much everything needed as long as they are indeed loaded at the time.
There's probably more that I just can't think of again.
Of course there are a lot other things there in the kernel outside these.
I don't remember/know too much about what else Genkernel does, especially after running it with --menuconfig, so I can't say much more about it. It's been more than a year since I used it myself, and any kernel I have compiled after, the commands above always got me running.
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cach0rr0
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Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 4123
Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Chiitoo wrote: |
| Double Click wrote: | | Another quick question - is there a way to check what all is in use with the current kernel config and use that to create a new kernel config with only these options and no other options enabled or modules enabled? |
Basically lspci, lsusb, lsmod should show pretty much everything needed as long as they are indeed loaded at the time.
There's probably more that I just can't think of again.
Of course there are a lot other things there in the kernel outside these.
I don't remember/know too much about what else Genkernel does, especially after running it with --menuconfig, so I can't say much more about it. It's been more than a year since I used it myself, and any kernel I have compiled after, the commands above always got me running. |
Just a few small bits to point out regarding gleaning information about your system from a livecd
-you can, if the livecd kernel supports it, view its running config via zcat /proc/config.gz. This is, however, going to be mostly useless information. A livecd kernel is going to typically be configured to support every piece of hardware under the sun, so it can run no matter what machine a user slaps it into. This is, of course, not what you want.
-specifically, lspci -k from within the livecd environment wills how you the loaded modules/drivers for your machine.
Regarding genkernel, if you use --menuconfig, the primary difference between that and the standard 'make menuconfig is that a)genkernel will include the modules you select as part of the initramfs that it builds, b)genkernel will install the kernel and initramfs to /boot for you. It really doesn't buy you much
Double Click - a couple years ago i made a video walking people through using a kernel seed. It's old. I've learned a bit since, and a few things have changed slightly since, and some of the explanations within are just flat wrong, but it may still be helpful: http://vimeo.com/7733701
I really really really need to update it, but oh well - good enough for now I suppose.
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Chiitoo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again, cach0rr0!
That's all pretty much what I was thinking, but it was in bits and pieces in my mind and I couldn't get it translated into coherent words... and I wasn't too sure about it all in the end either, yet it all seems so familiar now that I read it the way you put it.
Back when I got my first Kernel manually configured, one of the reasons was to get rid of the initrd as it seemed like 'something extra' that I really didn't need. I don't quite know what to think of it if I need it for udev in the future...
Buuut... that's another story~ 
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Double Click
Tux's lil' helper
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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This is turning out to be quiet an adventure - I happen to stumple across http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Dell_Studio_XPS_1340 which seems to be extremly helpfull for me. I am busy adjusting my USE flags and the only odd thing is that the wireless card in the article is a Broadcom and I have a Atheros based one.
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cach0rr0
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Joined: 13 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Double Click wrote: | | I am busy adjusting my USE flags and the only odd thing is that the wireless card in the article is a Broadcom and I have a Atheros based one. |
IMHO - trust what lspci -n pasted into the Kmuto HCL page tells you over that wiki entry.
Use the wiki entry for any "quirks", but not as a starting point.
And finding you have an atheros card rather than broadcom == epic win.
Atheros support on linux is probably the best of the pack. Broadcom support is probably the most sketchy.
Atheros cards generally only require the one driver (built as a module rather than built-in) and no external firmware.
ath5k and ath9k are stable as.
Far as USE flags go, *my* personal preference is to simply select a sensible profile, which will have a default set of USE flags, and then use make.conf very sparingly. I don't know what the official tag line is, but when I put something into make.conf, it generally stays that way for the life of that gentoo install; as such, I use it, as I said, sparingly. Most things I put into /etc/portage/package.use - but that's me.
Set the "desktop" profile, emerge Xorg, get that working, then do a pretend emerge of your preferred desktop environment or window manager - usually the ebuilds for whichever DE/WM are good about warning you one USE or another needs to be set in make.conf
i have some other thoughts but I'm tired of typing.
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Double Click
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 21 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| cach0rr0 wrote: |
Atheros cards generally only require the one driver (built as a module rather than built-in) and no external firmware. |
Yes! Thanks for confirming this - busy doing that with the wireless card and sound card as both was not set as module.
| cach0rr0 wrote: |
i have some other thoughts but I'm tired of typing. |
.... me to. Looking forward to some of thoughts at a more refreshed state. Looks like I might actually get a usable system running before the coming Monday. Once the wireless and sound is up I can start installing vmware player or workstation and then start with the fine tuning such as 3G dongle, Gnome window previews and proper window transparency (currently shows only the desktop wallpaper no matter over what I drag the window), vpn access of which one is two authentication with cisco device (fallback is my running Windows 7 VM in case I need it for work on Monday),Active Directory authentication, closer look at the power management, etc.
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Double Click
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Had a huge problem with wireless and my 3G dongle. Somehow I got it too work via two articles (one forum post and one gentoo wiki) but not quiet sure what exactly fixed the problem. I am busy emerging vmplayer over the 3G dongle but also Fedora. I am worried that there is gonna be another issue which is gonna take me hours if not days to figure and leave me with a unworkable system. If Monday comes I need to be able to perform my job functions as usual but it seems I should have set the Gentoo adventures aside when I get my new laptop - this way I can sort everything out before moving my job related stuff over and possibly dealing with any quirks that can effect my job.
At this point I am okay what i have achieved up to now (with the help of forum users) but it still feels clunky.
1. I am still using | Code: | | genkernel --menuconfig all |
to fine tune my kernel and am too afraid to move to the manual method as there might again be issues that is going to haunt me for hours. I am starting to wonder why use Gentoo if I am going to run with a normal kernel which any other distro has well (e.g. Fedora, Ubuntu, etc). I love the idea of having a kernel with just what I needed and then build on top of that - the educational potential alone is awesome but the amount of time invested in it most properly will not make the whole process worthwhile.
2. Gnome is snappy - from what I remember trying Ubuntu on my desktop it is far snappier. Aside the slight micro tearing (and this seems to be Linux related as with my Windows 7 install I get no such oddities) when dragging windows around I am generally happy. That I like but having some basic transparency would be really great. By basic I mean windows borders and terminal background. From what I can see on the forums this seems to be a sensitive topic on the Gentoo forum one side feels the glitz factor is important and one feels it is counter productive. I fall in between the two schools of thought - either-way this type of function seem to be another long struggle to get working. Originally I was not interested in running a graphical interface but I can see this as a big help.
3. Some things still does not seem to work even after following the official guides. Sound is one of them and actually could not be arsed to bother throwing in more time into this as I can most properly use my Windows 7 virtual guest to watch any videos and listen to music for the time being - and it is not over-ally critical for more day to day job tasks. Framebuffer support is also still not working as I cannot get my terminal at higher resolution. That is why I decided to install a Window Manager in the first place as I would be okay hitting of my virtual guest from the command line otherwise. Power management seems to be working but I have not way of seeing and control how the GPU switching takes place. What I am trying to get here is that most of the things with Gentoo takes several sources of information to get right - official documentation and wiki article seem to be best combinations and the forum of course.Again - I think I am at fault here as I should have done this on a different laptop (planning to buy a replacement laptop one of these days) and not touch my work related one.
4. Biggest question for me though is - how do I know if my system is running optimally? I see a bunch of dmesg warnings which I most properly have to go after one by one but what about general system performance? I have not seen anything faster from when I was running Windows 7. Boot up time is roughly the same if not longer because of some weird delays switching to Xorg and then Gnome. I never had any issues with crashes and hangs on my Windows 7 install so stability was not a challenge with me. Neither was security and malware issues - as a consultant and support engineer I had this laptop in a multitude of networks and various external drives connected to it with not one malware infection in over 4 years. So that argument is also null and voided for me. What I did not like about Windows 7 is that I could not always see everything under the hood - hence trying to move to Gentoo. I also like the concept of having a minimal or optimized OS layer and then run several virtual guests ontop of this. With my new laptop upgrade I will most properly have a 8-12GB memory computer and second generation i7 processor which gives me more than enough room for virtual guests. With my Windows 7 install I had a limit of running 3 virtual guest at the same comfortably (admittedly i only have 4GB of RAM) and felt is was always due to the underlining OS using too much system resources. With Windows there is no way out of it - even Microsoft realized this hence they have incarnation of Windows which is command line only and/or fine tuned for their Hypervisor role only. VMware went also this route (ESX to ESXi). Anyway - question still remains - is it possible to get a sense of granular control of system resource uses without spending days on it with no viable option to actually measure if these changes do make difference?
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Chiitoo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Double Click wrote: | 1. I am still using | Code: | | genkernel --menuconfig all |
to fine tune my kernel and am too afraid to move to the manual method as there might again be issues that is going to haunt me for hours. I am starting to wonder why use Gentoo if I am going to run with a normal kernel which any other distro has well (e.g. Fedora, Ubuntu, etc). I love the idea of having a kernel with just what I needed and then build on top of that - the educational potential alone is awesome but the amount of time invested in it most properly will not make the whole process worthwhile. |
Indeed, as I might have mentioned before, I used Genkernel for a time as well, and it did take a bit of time to get the hang of the manual configuration so I would not recommend on jumping into it with time restraints like that looming over.
I wouldn't say the Kernel is all that Gentoo is about though, as it is a lot about the USE flags, and stuff like that in general, too, and of course, the community!
| Double Click wrote: | | 2. Gnome is snappy - from what I remember trying Ubuntu on my desktop it is far snappier. Aside the slight micro tearing (and this seems to be Linux related as with my Windows 7 install I get no such oddities) when dragging windows around I am generally happy. That I like but having some basic transparency would be really great. By basic I mean windows borders and terminal background. From what I can see on the forums this seems to be a sensitive topic on the Gentoo forum one side feels the glitz factor is important and one feels it is counter productive. I fall in between the two schools of thought - either-way this type of function seem to be another long struggle to get working. Originally I was not interested in running a graphical interface but I can see this as a big help. |
Not having really used Gnome, I wonder if it has had the same thing going on as KDE, where KDE-3 felt snappier, faster, than KDE-4 does. Likewise I don't know much about gnome-terminal, not without looking up, but using KDE, and Konsole, I get pretty darn nice transparent windows when I so desire. It even makes video transparent while moving, say, mplayer2 window about, which I was really surprised about.
I wish I could tell where your difficulties come from, but since I haven't really used Gnome, I can't say much.
When you have more time, you might like to take a look into Enlightenment. As it was when I tried it many months ago, it seemed like a rather minimalistic simple thing, but you would be able to build upon it a lot, which I like.
Lots of 'candy' about for those who want it! I don't remember if I tried any transparency effects with it, and didn't really get myself into it so much as to move over from KDE, but it did seem very interesting, and I intend to take another look-see at some point of time (I very recently updated its packages so it's basically ready to be fired up at any time).
| Double Click wrote: | | 3. Some things still does not seem to work even after following the official guides. Sound is one of them and actually could not be arsed to bother throwing in more time into this as I can most properly use my Windows 7 virtual guest to watch any videos and listen to music for the time being - and it is not over-ally critical for more day to day job tasks. Framebuffer support is also still not working as I cannot get my terminal at higher resolution. |
I am quite confident that if you post your lspci -k, and 'pastebin' your Kernel .config in a topic or two regarding these issues, they should become solved. I had difficulties getting framebuffer to work myself, but once I got it, I got it.
I can't remember while writing this what GPU you got, so I wont go into that in this topic more than that.
| Double Click wrote: | | 4. Biggest question for me though is - how do I know if my system is running optimally? I see a bunch of dmesg warnings which I most properly have to go after one by one but what about general system performance? I have not seen anything faster from when I was running Windows 7. Boot up time is roughly the same if not longer because of some weird delays switching to Xorg and then Gnome. I never had any issues with crashes and hangs on my Windows 7 install so stability was not a challenge with me. Neither was security and malware issues - as a consultant and support engineer I had this laptop in a multitude of networks and various external drives connected to it with not one malware infection in over 4 years. So that argument is also null and voided for me. What I did not like about Windows 7 is that I could not always see everything under the hood - hence trying to move to Gentoo. I also like the concept of having a minimal or optimized OS layer and then run several virtual guests ontop of this. |
I don't know of a good way to compare really, other than just using the thing.
Comparing boot-up times for example probably wont be much different indeed, especially for a fresh install of windows, or one that does not have a lot of additional software starting afterwards. Stability as well has become better I guess, so depending of the things one does with it, there probably should not be issues with it really.
The latter part of the quote up there is basically why I like it.
I am allowed to get 'under the hood', and set things like I want to a lot more so than with windows, and it simply feels good to not be 'chained' to microsoft that way any longer. I was really glad about that feeling when I finally did start using Linux, and noticing that I can even play my games with it, and pretty much everything has an alternative in the Linux world that I used with windows, and some of them even better (for me at least).
Can't really think of how to compare them, other than using them yourself, and weighing the feel of them, so to speak.
Just some quick thoughts.
They may be rather... disconnected at places as I wrote this over few or more hours, am sleepy, and don't have the time to read it all through (again) right now. ^^;
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Double Click
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the wonderful feedback. I did not make it for Monday and screwed something up that i could not load Gnome and the vmware player install got me completly off guard. I will give it this weekend another try with the help of http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Dell_Studio_XPS_1340. And this time attempt to go custom kernel as a big time wasted was re-compiling kernel on a regular basis. My laptop's CPU is over the hill at this point so it took a while. Would it be possible to copy the article's kernel .config file and then modify before compiling it during the install? Only change I need to make it is the sound card as my Laptop model, although the same as in the article, uses a different sound card.
I am pretty set but have one question - which nvidia drivers are recommended (in terms of performance, stability and upgrade), open source nouveau drivers or the normal drivers from NVIDIA? I also notice that the article use the nvidia USE flag instead of the nouveau - does that mean I am forced to use the nvidia binaries (most properly because of the dual graphics card?). I also assume mixing the two USE flags will cause problems? And that is where i think my framebuffer never worked. I really would love to have my command prompt display as on the livecd as the higher resolution can fit so much more on the screen (my screen is 13 inch so every bit counts).
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Chiitoo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about wonderful, but you're welcome! 
First thing I took a note of regarding your question about the kernel .config is that the wiki-page in question was last modified on 24 April 2011, so it certainly will not be for the latest kernels out there (to be precise, it seems to be for 2.6.36-zen1). I imagine the purpose of having it there is more for reference than anything else. I could be wrong. I can't say it wouldn't work, but I would likely not suggest anyone to just copy a kernel .config from a site, but indeed, rather use it for reference only.
One reason for this is that the Gentoo Linux Kernel Upgrade Guide says:
That said, it might be viable if you copy the .config file over, and indeed run menuconfig (instead of oldconfig) as mentioned in the same article. That is actually the method I use to upgrade my kernel each and every time, but again, I can't say if it would be smooth sailing with as old .config as that, and being for a Zen-Kernel, too... I don't know if that matters. In the end, it would feel 'iffy' to me to pull a kernel configuration from the internet in the first place, but that's me and my paranoia.
By the by, did you notice the topic that is mentioned on that kernel-page?
As for nvidia-driver/nouveau... I think there is a lot of what personal preference has to do with here. If you intend on running more graphical intensive stuff, such as games, nvidia-drivers is pretty much the way to go. If you do not need that, then nouveau would probably work just fine. Best would be to try for yourself, though I can say from experience that during the phase you're just getting things going for the first time, it might be best to just choose one of them, that you get to work with the least effort, and leave the experimenting for later when you're more comfortable with the thing in general.
That might be just me, though. I haven't actually used nouveau on this main-machine/installation at all. I think I tried to get it going at first, but likely due to my own mistakes, couldn't get it to work and then tried nvidia-drivers and did get it to work and since I do play games, I haven't really had the urge to try out nouveau yet even though I still plan to, even if just out of curiosity and to compare stuff.
That being said, I'm quite certain, without looking it up, that the livecd uses nouveau, and I know that the SystemRescueCd uses it, so you can basically use those to try it out already. One thing I see more or less a major advantage is that nouveau uses KMS and (as far as I understand it nowadays) this enables a framebuffer console with a resolution of even 1920x1080 (possibly more?), while with nvidia-drivers (which don't actually do anything with the console), you are seemingly restricted to what vesafb and/or uvesafd can get from the videoBIOS, which often seems to be something around 1280x800 at best, which isn't bad, but it isn't 1920x1080 either. If I mainly used the console only, I would very likely opt for nouveau perhaps for this reason alone.
What comes to the dual-graphics, I don't know, as I never had to look into such matters (yet). I can't tell if and/or what the possible limitations might be for nouveau on that regard. How does it perform with the livecd/SystemRescueCd?
The VIDEO_CARDS variable should definitely be set to whichever you decide to go with, that is, nvidia for the proprietary and nouveau for the open source. When it is set to the correct one, you will have the correct drivers pulled in with xorg-server and other such that look for this variable (that is if I remember/understand it right).
As for the nvidia USE flag, looking here, I don't see it used much. I don't have it at least globally set at all myself, and I doubt that would have caused any issues for you. It's only affecting the packages you build that have something set for that flag, and it doesn't affect the Kernel drivers unless I'm completely missing something.
So with that said, your issue(s) with that are more likely something like having nouveau drivers configured in the kernel while using nvidia-drivers (or vice versa), and/or wrong VIDEO_CARDS variable pulling in wrong drivers.
Or something like that anyways...
I had my fair share of figuring out those framebuffer drivers myself, and I'm not completely certain that I get it even still. To be fair though, it was probably around a year ago, when I was trying out Linux for the first time, ever, and once I got it to what I was/have been happy with, I haven't messed around with them much... except for very recently trying uvesafb instead of vesafb because I wasn't sure if I was supposed to get that full-screen resolution framebuffer with that. I never really got a definitive answer to it so I posted something about it here, and Gusar more or less confirmed my suspicions thereafter.
I also noticed that the wiki-page shows a xorg.conf that is generated by X, and it might not work at all today (again, the guide seems old). Usually with nouveau one doesn't need a xorg.conf at all, and nvidia-drivers might need a very minimal one (a device section). I'm not sure how your dual-graphics would be tackled in either case. Perhaps there would be a need for screen sections, perhaps not... I don't know. I can't try it!
Oh, and the make.conf example in the bottom is called File: /etc/X11/xorg.conf... blubb.
That seems precarious!
Oopsies, wrote a 'bit' again.
Better stop now, while I still can (head-ache making it easier, though, which also is working hard on preventing me from proof-reading if anything I just typed makes any sense at all, so pardon, if some weird nonsense pops up)!
If there's anything else on your mind, just ask, and I will reply if it's something I know something about... something.
Just a few thoughts~
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cach0rr0
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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AFAIK the dual-gpu thing is still in a bit of an unstable/sketchy state
i dont know if youve tried this under other flavors of linux and gotten it to work, but i would be fairly surprised if nouveau supports this, and only marginally less surprised to find the binary nvidia driver supports this
i know some people on the forums have gotten it to work, just cant remember for the life of me how they did it and what the best search terms would be.
if i were you I'd roll with the onboard intel GPU (assuming it has one?) for the time being, and make the second nvidia GPU a "work in progress" sort of thing, to take care of once you get everything else squared away.
nothing else on your system should prove to be too problematic. start with a kernel seed, and if you find yourself stuck, dump the following to pastebin and share the links:
| Code: |
cat /etc/fstab
lspci -n
ls -l /usr/src/linux
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Installing Gentoo
