Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Emacs: for all your chess playing and web serving needs
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
klieber
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Posts: 3657
Location: San Francisco, CA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:55 pm    Post subject: Emacs: for all your chess playing and web serving needs Reply with quote

OK, I've never used emacs before in my life. Because I'm not familiar with it, I try not to bash it. Then, I saw the following post on the gentoo-user mailing list:
Matthew Kennedy wrote:
Hello fellow Emacs users,

Another snapshot of app-emacs/ is available at
http://www.gentoo.org/~mkennedy/emacs-packages.html

The new archive also includes a complete distfiles (which I forgot to
include on previous releases)

New ebuilds added since last time (since 28 September 2000):

* app-emacs/binclock
* app-emacs/boxquote
* app-emacs/bubblet
* app-emacs/cdrw
* app-emacs/chess
* app-emacs/color-theme
* app-emacs/crypt++
* app-emacs/dircolors
* app-emacs/emacs-wiki
* app-emacs/erobot
* app-emacs/httpd
* app-emacs/ibuffer
* app-emacs/igrep
* app-emacs/table
* app-emacs/typing
* app-emacs/u-vm-color
* app-emacs/uptimes
* app-emacs/view-process
* app-emacs/weather

This means basically everything in the Emacs Elisp Archive at Ohio
State is has been packaged for Gentoo now.

Emacs elisp ebuild requests, feedback, patches etc. all welcome!

WTF!?!?! Am I reading that message correctly in that there is a web server for emacs? Never mind the chess program, weather program, kitchen sink, etc. A web server???

I did a little googling and found this page which seems to corroberate the message above.

You emacs users are a bunch of wack-jobs. :) *

--kurt

*(NOTE to the humor impaired: What you have just read was a playful jab, not an insult. It was intended to convey humor and levity. If you took it some other way, you should re-read the message again with this in mind before pulling out your blowtorches...)

--kurt
_________________
The problem with political jokes is that they get elected
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rac
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 6553
Location: Japanifornia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, how dare you impugn the good name of...wait a minute...somebody spilled strawberry jam on the screen...wipe wipe...no, it's teensy red text...wot's this?...oh never mind.

The core of Emacs is written in C, and this includes an interpreter (bytecode and otherwise) for a LISPy language called elisp. Most of the crazy stuff (the Eliza mode, probably the httpd, the Zippy quotes, &c) are written in elisp. Since there's a whole programming environment in there, it's easy to create extension packages. They're not all included by default. In fact, before I switched to Gentoo, I didn't know how (relatively) slim the bare-bones xemacs build was. I mean, there's no *dired*, for deity's sake. What am I supposed to do, remember file names?

Fortunately, there's a nice UI that downloads and installs packages you want, and it's documented well (if a bit hidden) in the Portage tree.
_________________
For every higher wall, there is a taller ladder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16306
Location: Rivendell

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*steps back and puts on a flame-suit*

At the risk of juggling fire, at what point does this become bloat? I've only used emacs for about 2 minutes before I decided I didn't like the interface on whatever I was using at the time (I'm assuming the interface is customizeable -- everything else is ;)).

Note that this is a serious question. Is emacs really that useful as to eliminate the need for other utilities?

I may have to emerge it.
_________________
45
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
digicosm
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kanuslupus wrote:
At the risk of juggling fire, at what point does this become bloat? I've only used emacs for about 2 minutes before I decided I didn't like the interface on whatever I was using at the time (I'm assuming the interface is customizeable -- everything else is ;)).

Note that this is a serious question. Is emacs really that useful as to eliminate the need for other utilities?


There's no bloat because it tends to load only what you need. If you don't need Eliza to psychoanalyze Zippy, so be it, it won't be loaded.

Having said that, my problem with Emacs is enforcing a common look-and-feel on the entire system. As a result, that tends to dilute the individual applications to such a point that (a) their functionality becomes severely limited, or (b) their user interfaces need to be unique and thus you lose the advantage of having everything in one platform.

One good example is email support. Emacs offers RMAIL, VM amongst others. RMAIL is nicely integrated into the editor, but it doesn't offer MIME support, making it relatively useless for business work. VM does support MIME, but it pops up a new window and has an entirely unique user interface, forcing you to learn it. To me this defeats the purpose of having a common platform to build on.

I guess I just prefer having small utilities that are really good at what they do. However, Emacs is certainly an impressive accomplishment and deserves praise for what it has accomplished, even though it's not usable <running> :)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16306
Location: Rivendell

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. Has anyone found emacsOS yet? ;)
_________________
45
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rac
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 6553
Location: Japanifornia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kanuslupus wrote:
Interesting. Has anyone found emacsOS yet? ;)

I don't know if you knew this, but "the operating system known as Emacs" is an old joke. It predates the notion of "desktop environments", and I think that updated to use that terminology, it's not far off.

I could do pretty much everything I do daily on a computer from within Emacs: write things, compile programs, send and receive mail (encrypted and in multiple human languages), read Usenet, read WWW pages, write HTML, spawn shells, do sysadmin stuff, traverse filesystems. I'm not sure if there's a way to play audio CDs from within Emacs, but I suppose there's a command-line utility that could be called from a shell window.

Of course, I don't prefer to do all of these things from within Emacs, but you could. Note to anyone considering learning Emacs: if you have learned default GNU readline keybindings by osmosis using bash, you already know a lot of the Emacs positioning and movement keys.
_________________
For every higher wall, there is a taller ladder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16306
Location: Rivendell

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rac wrote:
I don't know if you knew this, but "the operating system known as Emacs" is an old joke.
Hehe, no, I didn't know that, but it doesn't sound like there would need to be too many additions to accomplish it.
_________________
45
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spectatorion
n00b
n00b


Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"the operating system known as Emacs"

in fact, it is common wisdom that emacs would be a great operating system. now if only it had a good editor...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fca
Guru
Guru


Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 345
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spectatorion wrote:
Quote:
"the operating system known as Emacs"

in fact, it is common wisdom that emacs would be a great operating system. now if only it had a good editor...

Yeah! Maybe they could join up with the VI team, and integrate VI?

Silently sneaks away from the fire, whistling....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aja
l33t
l33t


Joined: 26 Aug 2002
Posts: 705
Location: Edmonton, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Interesting. Has anyone found emacsOS yet? ;)


Yes - but we need to get Emacs self-hosting so we can lose the rest of that crap on the box.

And you CAN emulate VI keystrokes in emacs. You can also leave your car in first gear all the time. :-)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheCoop
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 Jun 2002
Posts: 1814
Location: Where you least expect it

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i wonder how difficult it would be to write an os kernel for emacs...
_________________
95% of all computer errors occur between chair and keyboard (TM)

"One World, One web, One program" - Microsoft Promo ad.
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler

Change the world - move a rock
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
krusty_ar
Guru
Guru


Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 560
Location: Rosario, Argentina

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheCoop wrote:
i wonder how difficult it would be to write an os kernel for emacs...


You don't need to:
Code:
root:x:0:0:root:/root:/sbin/emacs

_________________
I am Beta, don't expect correct behaviour from me.
Take part of the adopt an unaswered post initiative
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FxChiP
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My main problem with emacs is it's so damned hard to use, and if you press one wrong button it's hard to escape. You have to use another TTY to kill it off.

But I'm just a beginning user who hasn't read the manual... and ugh...

... it's not exactly intuitive. :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nylle
Guru
Guru


Joined: 05 May 2002
Posts: 308
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FxChiP wrote:
My main problem with emacs is it's so damned hard to use, and if you press one wrong button it's hard to escape. You have to use another TTY to kill it off.

But I'm just a beginning user who hasn't read the manual... and ugh...

... it's not exactly intuitive. :P


Pah, being intuitive is overrated! If emacs was intutive, then everybody could use it! Think about that horrible scenario for a while. That would take away the l33tness that comes with being an emacs user, and we can't have that, now can we? ;)

Emacs is a bloated hog that gives me RSI, but what can I say, I love it! :D
_________________
"Do you hear that sound your Highness?"
"Those are the shrieking eels, they always grow louder when they are about to feed on human flesh."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MidnightCommando
n00b
n00b


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Interesting. Has anyone found emacsOS yet? ;)


EmacsOS was made once.

It was done by replacing init with emacs on a Linux system.

Some whackjob with a PowerBook did it.
_________________
How many kernels must a geek compile, before he is called a geek?
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MidnightCommando
n00b
n00b


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nylle wrote:

Emacs is a bloated hog that gives me RSI, but what can I say, I love it! :D


Try <a href="http://www.sxemacs.org/">SXEmacs</a>.

That'll show you the true meaning of kitchen sink.
_________________
How many kernels must a geek compile, before he is called a geek?
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PingEnt
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 89
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FxChiP wrote:
My main problem with emacs is it's so damned hard to use, and if you press one wrong button it's hard to escape. You have to use another TTY to kill it off.

But I'm just a beginning user who hasn't read the manual... and ugh...

... it's not exactly intuitive. :P


Code:
C-g
Usually cleans up whatever mess you've made with the keys :p[/code]
_________________
Thanks for reading. This has been a PingEnt presentation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spupy
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 102
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
rac wrote:
I don't know if you knew this, but "the operating system known as Emacs" is an old joke.
Hehe, no, I didn't know that, but it doesn't sound like there would need to be too many additions to accomplish it.


Emacs, is not an OS. It is a tiling window manager. Like Ion and WMII. :D

Now, excuse me, I have to go and put "exec emacs" in my xinitrc.
_________________
Make install - not war!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jel
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 259
Location: Gothenburg

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FxChiP wrote:
My main problem with emacs is it's so damned hard to use, and if you press one wrong button it's hard to escape. You have to use another TTY to kill it off.

But I'm just a beginning user who hasn't read the manual... and ugh...

... it's not exactly intuitive. :P


The first combo you need to learn is C-g, ie. ctrl+g aka. keyboard-quit. It cancels just about everything you just started mistyping. If C-g doesn't cut it there's always C-], abort-recursive-edit, which breaks out of recursive edits.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rokstar83
Guru
Guru


Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 422
Location: MD

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jel wrote:
FxChiP wrote:
My main problem with emacs is it's so damned hard to use, and if you press one wrong button it's hard to escape. You have to use another TTY to kill it off.

But I'm just a beginning user who hasn't read the manual... and ugh...

... it's not exactly intuitive. :P


The first combo you need to learn is C-g, ie. ctrl+g aka. keyboard-quit. It cancels just about everything you just started mistyping. If C-g doesn't cut it there's always C-], abort-recursive-edit, which breaks out of recursive edits.


I didn't know it was called "keyboard-quit"... I've always been calling it "the un-!%$@ emacs command". I usually just end up pounding on the g key until things look normal again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum