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MrCanis
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ps
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 Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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It's because the jack-booted thugs want to shut us up!
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MoonWalker
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Well read the 3rd (I think) from last post done by mod/admin, it gives the reason. While I partly agree as some posters (me included) started to become a bit too frequent and "hot", I think it's a pity though as many came "late" and wanted to add fresh input, it probably have had something of a contra effect.
Discussion have more or less moved here instead. The poll is missing though which is sad and it kinda steel some attention from the original purpose of that thread, which also is say.
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MrCanis
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It's because the jack-booted thugs want to shut us up! |
Ah, that's great! 
What should that mean to me / us? Gentoo is dead? It makes no sense to install / use Gentoo? Is it that what they want? How stupid they are? Or is they any chance that Gentoo will survive? I really hope but I'm unsure. Now I have a problem, I have to install / maintain a couple of computers, if Gentoo is dead I have to use a other distribution and I don't want that and I'm not prepared for that. What would be your advice? Wait until Saturday? What a bullshit!
Is there any other person but D. Robbins whom have a plan? No? Then led him do!
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ps
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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There are otter "from source" distros. Gentoo is by no means unique in this respect.
If you need a distro for serious work then probably now is not the time to get Gentoo because there is absolutely no way to know what tomorrow may bring.
Will the trouble makers check in to rehab?
Probably not.
Will the "Ones Who Know" continue to fight over statistics?
Probably.
Shop around bro.
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Voltago
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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If you read the last page or so of that thread you will find a rationale about why it has been locked, along with the fact that
| nightmorph wrote: | | Daniel has yet to ask the developers this on the mailing lists, or otherwise contact us. |
which I consider very bad form, I might add. I'm inclined to call that not even an 'offer' but a 'campaign', and it is likely that both rejection or acceptance will harm the project by driving away users ('ZOMG we are leaderless!!eleven!') or developers ('ZOMG drobbins!!1!').
Anyway, it's for the developers to decide, not the users. And rumors about Gentoo's demise are greatly exaggerated, as the portage tree is updated daily. Of course this is the hour of prophets of doom, and fools blagging about 'vision' (which means 'make Gentoo the way _I_ want it, presto!') and 'leadership' (which means 'we need a benevolent dictator to tell the devs to make Gentoo the way _I_ want it, double presto!') and suchlike, and you better don't believe everything you read on the forums nowadays.
Last edited by Voltago on Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MrCanis
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ps wrote: | There are otter "from source" distros. Gentoo is by no means unique in this respect.
If you need a distro for serious work then probably now is not the time to get Gentoo because there is absolutely no way to know what tomorrow may bring.
Will the trouble makers check in to rehab?
Probably not.
Will the "Ones Who Know" continue to fight over statistics?
Probably.
Shop around bro. |
That's what Distrowatch said (Search criteria: source base, i386, i468, i586, i686, ix86, x86_64, active)
The following distributions match your criteria:
1. Gentoo Linux
Gentoo Linux is a versatile and fast, completely free Linux distribution geared towards developers and network professionals. Unlike other distros, Gentoo Linux has an advanced package management system called Portage. Portage is a true ports system in the tradition of BSD ports, but is Python-based and sports a number of advanced features including dependencies, fine-grained package management, "fake" (OpenBSD-style) installs, safe unmerging, system profiles, virtual packages, config file management, and more.
2. Linux From Scratch
Linux From Scratch (LFS) is a project that provides you with the steps necessary to build your own custom Linux system. There are a lot of reasons why somebody would want to install an LFS system. The question most people raise is "why go through all the hassle of manually installing a Linux system from scratch when you can just download an existing distribution like Debian or Redhat". That is a valid question which I hope to answer for you. The most important reason for LFS's existence is teaching people how a Linux system works internally. Building an LFS system teaches you about all that makes Linux tick, how things work together, and depend on each other. And most importantly, how to customize it to your own taste and needs.
3. Lunar Linux
Lunar is a source based Linux distribution with a unique package management system which builds each software package, or module, for the machine it is being installed on. Though it can take a while to do a complete Lunar installation it's worth it as it tends to be quite fast, once installed! In the beginning Lunar was a fork of Sorcerer GNU Linux (SGL). The fork occurred in late January to early February of 2002 and was originally made up of a small group of people who wanted to collaboratively develop and extend the Sorcerer technology. The original name for the project was Lunar-Penguin but the group decided to re-christen it Lunar Linux while the Lunar-Penguin name has become a sort of umbrella which the team could use if they decide to collaboratively develop something besides Lunar Linux.
4. Murix Linux
MURIX is a Linux distribution created with the goal to function on all hardware platforms. It is based on Linux From Scratch.
5. ROCK Linux
ROCK is a distribution build kit, or in other words, a software development toolkit for building OS solutions. You can configure your personal build of ROCK and easily build your own distribution directly from source code. Most of the ROCK Linux development is done on ix86 hardware, But ROCK Linux also supports the Alpha AXP, PowerPC, Sparc32/Sparc64 and MIPS architectures.
6. Sorcerer
Sorcerer is a source based Linux distribution. Sources are downloaded directly from software authors' homepages and mirrors. Then, they are compiled with the architecture and optimizations that the system administrator specifies. Finally, it is installed, tracked, and archived for easy removal and upgrades. SGL is a distribution for advanced systems administration with both command line and menu driven package mangement programs.
7. Source Mage GNU/Linux
Sourcemage is a source-based GNU/Linux distribution based on a Sorcery metaphor of 'casting' and 'dispelling' programs, which we refer to as 'spells'.
8. T2 SDE
T2 is an open source system development environment (or distribution build kit if you are more familiar with that term). T2 allows the creation of custom distributions with bleeding edge technology. Currently, the Linux kernel is normally used - but we are expanding to Hurd, OpenDarwin and OpenBSD; more to come. T2 started as a community driven fork from the ROCK Linux Project with the aim to create a decentralised development and a clean framework for spin-off projects and customised distributions.
9. TA-Linux
TA-Linux is a free Linux distribution that targets Linux power users. Its main goal is to have a small base installation that the end-users can expand to include the software they need. The secondary goal is to support as many different architectures as possible, at this time x86 is fully supported with Alpha, Sparc, PPC and PA-RISC around the corner. Extra software not included in the base is handled using a system resembling the *BSD ports system, called Collection, which handles installation, upgrading and dependencies. The primary way of installing new software is to download the source, compile and install it (totaly automatic). The user can also choose to install already built binary packages, also automaticaly using the Collection system.
-------
Not that much. Have you any experience with one of them above?
Thanks in advance.
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Last edited by MrCanis on Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Frodo42
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I have to say I support the locking of the thread, the tone was no longer constructive and there was only one developer (who really are the only ones to take a decision at this time) left in the discussion who, from what I have been told by Nixnut, also didn't want to participate in the thread anymore, so continuing the thread would probably not have lead to anything good.
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batistuta
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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There reasons for the lock have been well explained. Besides, although this discussion is good in the sense that it will induce people to re-think about the quality of Gentoo, in the end, my opinion is that Gentoo will not accept Daniel's offer
Why? Because that is not a a valid offer. Gentoo, as it is structured, has clear rules as to how things happen. Daniel's proposal goes against Gentoo's rules. Regardless of how good or bad Gentoo's state is, you can't accept something that goes against the system.
This is equivalent to having a general in a democratic country saying "this government is not working well" so if you let me, I will replace it with a military government where I will rule. That's not the way.
I have a lot of respect for Daniel, but he is going against Gentoo. So if Gentoo is as bad as some people think, developers should move to Archlinux or something else and help there. Daniel can spin-off his own new Linux and attempt to convince Gentoo developers to follow him. The options are many. But I do not support his strategy, with deadlines and all the strings attached, and I'm 100% the Foundation doesn't either.
Last edited by batistuta on Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MrCanis
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Frodo42 wrote: | | I have to say I support the locking of the thread, the tone was no longer constructive and there was only one developer (who really are the only ones to take a decision at this time) left in the discussion who, from what I have been told by Nixnut, also didn't want to participate in the thread anymore, so continuing the thread would probably not have lead to anything good. |
I don't think so. Not only the developers, the users too or better said the community. Because, not only the developers contributing. What is with all the people who answer questions, contribute art work or documentations? And what with those who promote Gentoo locally? They all should asked or at least informed.
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ps
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| MrCanis wrote: | Not that much. Have you any experience with one of them above?
Thanks in advance. |
No, I have not tried, but I am enjoying this one: http://www.freebsd.org
Best wishes,
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ps
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| MrCanis wrote: | Not that much. Have you any experience with one of them above?
Thanks in advance. |
If you want Linux then I recommend this one:http://www.debian.org
I used it for years and I guarantee that it is rock solid and extremely well documented and extremely well supported.
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ps
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| batistuta wrote: | There reasons for the lock have been well explained. Besides, although this discussion is good in the sense that it will induce people to re-think about the quality of Gentoo, in the end, my opinion is that Gentoo will not accept Daniel's offer
Why? Because that is not a a valid offer. Gentoo, as it is structured, has clear rules as to how things happen. Daniel's proposal goes against Gentoo's rules. Regardless of how good or bad Gentoo's state is, you can't accept something that goes against the system.
This is equivalent to having a general in a democratic country saying "this government is not working well" so if you let me, I will replace it with a military government where I will rule. That's not the way.
I have a lot of respect for Daniel, but he is going against Gentoo. So if Gentoo is as bad as some people think, developers should move to Archlinux or something else and help there. Daniel can spin-off his own new Linux and attempt to convince Gentoo developers to follow him. The options are many. But I do not support his strategy, with deadlines and all the strings attached, and I'm 100% the Foundation doesn't either. |
Well, I read the responses at his blog http://blog.funtoo.org/. There, many retired Gentoo devs support him fully and offer to un-retire once he has cleaned up this mess.
He made a really fun toy and lent it to you to play with. YOU broke it and now he is offering to fix it for you to play with some more. And you do not accept that??
What's wrong with you!!!
Respectfully,
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tld
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ps wrote: | He made a really fun toy and lent it to you to play with. YOU broke it and now he is offering to fix it for you to play with some more. And you do not accept that??
What's wrong with you!!!
Respectfully, |
That may be the least respectful thing I've ever seen in writing...and exactly what is it that's so broken with Gentoo? You've apparently had few issues seeing as you just joined the forum four days ago.
This whole thing has gotten so silly I can't believe it anymore.
Tom |
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Voltago
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ps wrote: | | He made a really fun toy and lent it to you to play with. YOU broke it and now he is offering to fix it for you to play with some more. |
Other people may have helped a wee bit over the years. And Gentoo, while certainly not perfekt, is not 'broken'. Who's 'YOU', btw?
| ps wrote: | | And you do not accept that??, |
An offer Gentoo can't refuse, eh?
| ps wrote: | | What's wrong with you!!! |
I guess the devs (='you'?) have their reasons not to cheer and party for three days. Anyway, your view of the story seems a little bit biased.
Since you brought up the topic, who do you think you are to tell the Gentoo devs off for their hesitance to take drobbin's offer?
Yeah right. |
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jmbsvicetto
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hi.
| tld wrote: | | ps wrote: | He made a really fun toy and lent it to you to play with. YOU broke it and now he is offering to fix it for you to play with some more. And you do not accept that??
What's wrong with you!!!
Respectfully, |
That may be the least respectful thing I've ever seen in writing... |
This certainly won't gain him much respect.
ps, please review your tone.
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tld
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jmbsvicetto wrote: | Hi.
| tld wrote: | | ps wrote: | He made a really fun toy and lent it to you to play with. YOU broke it and now he is offering to fix it for you to play with some more. And you do not accept that??
What's wrong with you!!!
Respectfully, |
That may be the least respectful thing I've ever seen in writing... |
This certainly won't gain him much respect.
ps, please review your tone. |
Point taken...quite sorry.
PS: Are others getting database errors trying to access any topics past page one? I can't get beyond page one of any of them.
Tom |
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Voltago
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| tld wrote: | | jmbsvicetto wrote: | | ps, please review your tone. |
Point taken...quite sorry. |
I don't think that was aimed at you. I also feel reasonably sorry btw
| tld wrote: | | PS: Are others getting database errors trying to access any topics past page one? I can't get beyond page one of any of them. |
Nope, works fine for me. |
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jmbsvicetto
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Voltago wrote: | | tld wrote: | | jmbsvicetto wrote: | | ps, please review your tone. |
Point taken...quite sorry. |
I don't think that was aimed at you. I also feel reasonably sorry btw
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hehe, nope, it wasn't meant to tld, but to ps.
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berferd
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Voltago wrote: | | Anyway, it's for the developers to decide, not the users. |
Presto! We the almighty devs will continue to drive the project into the ground no matter what you silly little users think. Go freak out in the forums or do whatever else it is you weak-minded types do.
| batistuta wrote: | | Daniel can spin-off his own new Linux and attempt to convince Gentoo developers to follow him. |
I expect this is exactly what will happen. DRobbins won't even get any kind of answer, and will fork Gentoo (perhaps even taking the name with him.) I am not a Gentoo dev, but I will follow. |
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Voltago
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Voltago wrote: | | Of course this is the hour of prophets of doom |
| berferd wrote: | | Presto! We the almighty devs will continue to drive the project into the ground |
I rest my case. |
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jonnevers
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| berferd wrote: | | Presto! We the almighty devs will continue to drive the project into the ground no matter what you silly little users think. Go freak out in the forums or do whatever else it is you weak-minded types do. |
 i say, lock this thread too. |
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berferd
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| dirtyepic wrote: | | we're discussing this amongst ourselves right now, because really the Foundation has zero effect on the Gentoo you know and love/hate. feel free to freak out amongst yourselves if you like, but we're not going to rush a big decision based on knee-jerk reactions. |
I rest mine. |
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nihilo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnevers wrote: | | berferd wrote: | | Presto! We the almighty devs will continue to drive the project into the ground no matter what you silly little users think. Go freak out in the forums or do whatever else it is you weak-minded types do. |
i say, lock this thread too. |
Please don't ask the thread to be locked just because you see nothing of value in it. Let the rest of us make up our minds about whether we wish to read and post to it. You are free to ignore the thread if you want.
Lack of communication and not being heard is what gives users so little faith in Gentoo at the moment. Censorship is not the answer! |
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jonnevers
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| nihilo wrote: | Please don't ask the thread to be locked just because you see nothing of value in it. Let the rest of us make up our minds about whether we wish to read and post to it. You are free to ignore the thread if you want.
Lack of communication and not being heard is what gives users so little faith in Gentoo at the moment. Censorship is not the answer! |
no one is saying anyone else should be censored, least of all me but I expect at least partially informed opinions. locking one thread doesn't inhibit anyone from creating any number of more specific threads if they so choose.
The reasons the other thread was locked has been expounded upon and this thread has turned into Gentoo Developer bashing based on out-of-context quotes and pure opinion when the ORIGINAL issue is with the basically defunct Gentoo Trustees *not* the developers.
I guess I'm a special class of "user" that still has faith in Gentoo Developers who get paid nothing for the hard work they have put in. |
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