Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
There's something rotten in the kingdom of Utah and it's SCO
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
broschi
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 189
Location: Atlantide

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:37 am    Post subject: There's something rotten in the kingdom of Utah and it's SCO Reply with quote

They really want us to love them! And here for more.

Pure provocation, perhaps SCO knows something we don't?
_________________
"Is this type of thing going to happen every time we switch to improbability drive?" "Very probably I'm afraid."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fusion
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I'll be honest I havent read all the paper and stuff about the SCO case. What excatlly are they claiming that IBM put SCO code in linux or SCO code got put into Linus' tree? And my question also is dont you think that its possible that someone else might just write code that does what that system V code does and never have seen it? and if so you wouldnt it be reasonable to think the code would look almost the same except for comments?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nicom
Guru
Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 379
Location: La Ilaha Ilallah, wa Muhammadan Rasullu Llah.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That has got to be the most unprofessional company I have ever seen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zephyr1256
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 170
Location: Kingsport, TN

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fusion wrote:
Ok I'll be honest I havent read all the paper and stuff about the SCO case. What excatlly are they claiming that IBM put SCO code in linux or SCO code got put into Linus' tree? And my question also is dont you think that its possible that someone else might just write code that does what that system V code does and never have seen it? and if so you wouldnt it be reasonable to think the code would look almost the same except for comments?


The case vs IBM is purely a breach of contract case. No other cases have been filed, but there has been many threats and much thumping of chests insinuating that the liabilities may also lie with the end users(of which corporate users would be most vulnerable, because they have the most money).

All evidence I have seen indicates that their case vs IBM is very weak. The complaint is riddled with holes
_________________
The Congress shall have power...To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries; --U.S. Constitution. Article 1, Section 8.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anacific
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 210
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SCOs claims look very rediculous. Soon they'll be claiming that all OSs were written in the same language their unix was written.

Bah!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pizen
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 23 Jun 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anacific wrote:
SCOs claims look very rediculous. Soon they'll be claiming that all OSs were written in the same language their unix was written.

Bah!

At least they'd be mostly right. But that doesn't make it lawsuit-worthy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raoul_Duke
l33t
l33t


Joined: 15 Dec 2002
Posts: 694
Location: Caerdydd, Wales

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fusion wrote:
Ok I'll be honest I havent read all the paper and stuff about the SCO case. What excatlly are they claiming that IBM put SCO code in linux or SCO code got put into Linus' tree? And my question also is dont you think that its possible that someone else might just write code that does what that system V code does and never have seen it? and if so you wouldnt it be reasonable to think the code would look almost the same except for comments?


'Apparantly', the code in question has identical comments :?
_________________
www.iamthepenguin.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lurid
Guru
Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 595
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically what they're standing on is the claim of "derivative works". IBM licenced code, used that code to create something for AIX, then put that code in Linux. One would assume, though, that if IBM developed the code, then IBM can do with it as they please. However, SCO claims that the licence IBM signed says that any works that are derivative of the source they bought are owned by SCO.

Its actually more complicated. SCO is pointing at JFS as one of the things that are in linux that shouldn't be. They're also pointing at something that was developed by Lucent, who is now owned by IBM. Its a mess, quite honestly. Its going to come down to a judge interpreting the licence agreement and deciding just how the term "derivative" applies here.

As far as I'm concerned, if SCO wins this, its going to set a very bad precident for the computer industry as a whole, not just Linux or Free Software. If they actually win this, a precident will be set that says "If you licence code from me, and you write a program based on that code, I own it." If you use any proprietary information at all to create a program, the owner of that information (or Intellectual Property, since thats the buzzword of the year) owns what you write. Screw that. IBM/Lucent developed technologies on their own. IBM can do with it as they please. I am SICK of these abuses of the legal system. People should not profit from threats.

I also find the signs SCO made to be highly offensive. They are outright slanderous to Linus and in the day and age of terrorism (and FBI having way to much power) equating Linux to Communism, Iraq and Nazis is a very bad thing to do. I am completely and utterly disgusted with this company. *spits*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anacific
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 210
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just like RIAA instead of trying to keep up with the times and flex their business model they blame all their problems on others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
henke
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 165
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been thinking about a way to deal with SCO for a while. Under ordinary circumstances I would just boycott SCO. The problem is that SCO doesn't sell anything I would buy in the first place. Me boycotting them has no effect whatsoever.

If I was a developer I could perhaps convince some clients to migrate away from SCO.

So how can we mere mortals cause SCO financial pain? One way would be to boycott SCO's customers. If all SCO's customers go out of buisness then SCO will go out of buisness.

From what I hear SCO software is mainly used in Point Of Sale systems (cash registers) at large retailers. I believe McDonalds uses SCO Unix...

Darl McBride wrote:
Where people get a little confused is when they think of SCO Unix as just the Unix that runs the cash register at McDonalds.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t278-s2136111,00.html

SCO makes most money on legacy systems. They aren't getting many new installations.

Darl McBride wrote:
McBride specifically said that that the SCO Unixes are not going away. As he noted, "McDonalds isn't going to give it up anytime soon." While admitting, "customers aren't buying much new SCO Unix," he continues, "they're also not switching either." He believes that once the economy levels off, the older Unix products will sell again.


http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/4282/1/

I propose boycott by proxy. We can't boycott SCO but we can boycott their largest customer untill they stop using SCO Unix.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anacific
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 210
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are you going to boycott them? Stop going to McDonalds and then try and explain others why? :lol:

I can imagine people behind the counters going "unix what?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
henke
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 165
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anacific wrote:
How are you going to boycott them? Stop going to McDonalds

Yep, simple as that. If I feel I really need a burger I can go to Burger King.
Quote:
and then try and explain others why? :lol:

We only have to explain what we are doing to one McDonalds executive.
Quote:
I can imagine people behind the counters going "unix what?"

Of course that won't work ;) We put up a online petition and a web page explaning what we are doing. If enough people boycott McDonalds they will be forced to dump SCO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nicom
Guru
Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 379
Location: La Ilaha Ilallah, wa Muhammadan Rasullu Llah.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apperently the British military just signed a huge deal with SCO, so does that mean boycotting the entire UK?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kashani
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 2032
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:47 pm    Post subject: sco compatibility Reply with quote

The most interesting protest to SCO was kicked off by the guy who write nmap. The latest version has some of the code removed so it no longer works on SCO. This is fairly trivial by itself, but if enough projects did the same it could make things interesting.

Of course I've only had one SCO contract job and it was to update the accounting system and fix serial printing enough until the new Linux server showed up. I doubt anyone running single purpose boxes like this care much about most the software the rest us can't live without.

kashani
_________________
Will personally fix your server in exchange for motorcycle related shop tools in good shape.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lurid
Guru
Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 595
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I think the only blow that can be levelled at SCO will be for programmers to take steps that won't allow their programs to work with SCO Unix. SCO obviously wants to use Linux software and sees the value in it or else they wouldn't have altered Unixware to allow for Linux binaries to run.

Then again, this is open source. If the programmers write out SCO code, there is really nothing to stop SCO employees from putting it back in, though that'll cost them time and money to do. Either way, the point will be made. I'm all for the Nmap maintainers boycotte.

Whether or not SCO wins, they've made a lot of enemies. I'd like to see SCO systematically dismantled by refusal of Open Source project mantainers to support their platforms. I'd like to see them kicked out of United Linux. I'd like to see them shunned by every member of the OSS community. I'd like to see them continue to sell ancient technology no one cares about while OSS forges ahead and dominates business.

Linux isn't a business, its not controlled by anyone. Its a community based on respect and ethics. SCO messed with the wrong people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
henke
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 165
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mocnicom wrote:
Apperently the British military just signed a huge deal with SCO, so does that mean boycotting the entire UK?

:lol:

Even if we did that wouldn't really hurt SCO. I can't imagine the British military caring about what ordinary citzens think. They would totally ignore non U.K. citizens.

I'm not talking about boycotting all SCO's customers. :) That would be really inconvenient. Besides that would probably not affect SCO very much. The action would get to diluted and none of the companies would drop SCO Unix. In the end we would have accomplished nothing.

I'm talking about a targeted boycott of one SCO customer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
henke
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 165
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kashani and lurid,

stopping programs from working on SCO Unix is a great way for a developer to fight back. But what about us mere mortal users? How are we supposed to fight back? How many users are there per developer? 10? 100?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anacific
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 210
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I've never eaten in McDonalds and creating a petition may do some good!

henke wrote:
stopping programs from working on SCO Unix is a great way for a developer to fight back. But what about us mere mortal users? How are we supposed to fight back? How many users are there per developer? 10? 100?

You can spread the word. :)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lurid
Guru
Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 595
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New interview with Linus.. so heres the scoop straight from the penguins mouth.

Quote:
What is your position on SCO's IP claims and its allegations that code from Unix System V like its non-uniform memory access [NUMA] technologies have been incorporated into Linux?

As far as I can tell, SCO doesn't have any IP claims. Their lawsuit isn't about IP claims; it's about some contract dispute with IBM. The only IP issues they have brought up in a verifiable way has been the RCU [Read Copy Update, a way to access data structures that may be changing on multiple CPUs with less locking than normal] work that IBM did, and that SCO doesn't have any IP rights to that I can see: the patents are all IBM, and the code was written by (and thus copyrighted by) IBM too. Well, it was Sequent at the time, but they're all IBM now.

SCO alleges that you need to focus more on getting clarification as to where the code that goes in the Linux kernel comes from. Do you have any plans to change the current Linux development model?

No. I allege that SCO is full of it, and that the Linux process is already the most transparent process in the whole industry. Let's face it, nobody else even comes close to being as good at showing the evolution and source of every single line of code out there. The only party that has had serious problems clarifying what they are talking about is SCO, and now when details start emerging like with RCU, it's clearly about IP that they had nothing to do with, and don't even own. I'm sure that they are confident that they own the collective work of Unix, but that's a separate thing entirely legally from being the actual copyright owner of any specific section of code.


"No. I allege that SCO is full of it" Well, that right there pretty much sums up the entire issue. :)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KiTaSuMbA
Guru
Guru


Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 430
Location: Naples Italy

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey lurid,
how about a link to that interview?
thnx
_________________
Need to flame people LIVE on IRC? Join #gentoo-otw on freenode!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lurid
Guru
Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 595
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh.. yeah, I guess that would help wouldn't it? I knew I forgot something when I posted it. :roll:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1134271,00.asp

Enjoy. :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Papapishu
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 129
Location: ((void*)NULL)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we tell SCO, and what they hear
_________________
#359074
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FxChiP
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that's Linus Torvalds they depict, they're bigger assholes than I originally thought. From all I've heard, Torvalds is a pretty good guy.

Morons. Utter morons.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lurid
Guru
Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 595
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that was supposed to be Linus. I think its probably some anonymous person, however, if you really read into it.. the guy talking is kinda big, and he's wearing blue. Big Blue = IBM. But maybe I'm looking at it too hard. :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zephyr1256
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 170
Location: Kingsport, TN

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lurid wrote:
I don't think that was supposed to be Linus. I think its probably some anonymous person, however, if you really read into it.. the guy talking is kinda big, and he's wearing blue. Big Blue = IBM. But maybe I'm looking at it too hard. :P


I think its pretty clearly Big Blue, although I hadn't really put any thought into 'who' it was.
_________________
The Congress shall have power...To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries; --U.S. Constitution. Article 1, Section 8.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum