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SQLBoy
Guru
Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 381
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 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Slashdot |
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Noone asked for the Counter-Strike code, just the code to the HL Engine itself. The code to hl.exe. Noone is asking for them to stop making money on the existing product or to release to us something that will allow them to stop making money on existing products. Noone is asking for them to give us the code for the single player experiece. Just the core engine.
| IntergalacticWalrus wrote: |
Believe me, they have PLENTY to lose by releasing the source.
The fact that it's old and "antiquated" does not matter, as the Half-Life engine is still played to death under Counter-Strike. Just look at Quake 1 & 2 : whenever the source code was released, it opened the door to easier aimbots development. And seeing how CS already has a shitload of cheat hacks, releasing the source code won't help. |
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IntergalacticWalrus
Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 513
Location: Montreal QC (Canada)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Slashdot |
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| SQLBoy wrote: | Noone asked for the Counter-Strike code, just the code to the HL Engine itself. The code to hl.exe. Noone is asking for them to stop making money on the existing product or to release to us something that will allow them to stop making money on existing products. Noone is asking for them to give us the code for the single player experiece. Just the core engine.
| IntergalacticWalrus wrote: |
Believe me, they have PLENTY to lose by releasing the source.
The fact that it's old and "antiquated" does not matter, as the Half-Life engine is still played to death under Counter-Strike. Just look at Quake 1 & 2 : whenever the source code was released, it opened the door to easier aimbots development. And seeing how CS already has a shitload of cheat hacks, releasing the source code won't help. |
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Most of the cheats written for CS mess around with the HL engine code, not the CS gamecode layer, sinc gamecode layers in HL are only (mostly?) run server-side.
As for the gamecode for single player, it's already open sourced. Where do you think mods start their gamecode from?
This does bring up an interesting point though: it would be great if Valve released the source code to the CS gamecode. Easier CS modding would be a great addon. |
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kosamae
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 133
Location: (__)(__)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Slashdot |
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| IntergalacticWalrus wrote: |
As for the gamecode for single player, it's already open sourced. Where do you think mods start their gamecode from?
This does bring up an interesting point though: it would be great if Valve released the source code to the CS gamecode. Easier CS modding would be a great addon. |
Dude, do you know what you're talking about? Apparently the Unreal 2 engine and the Quake 3 engine have been open sourced too, because they're making mods for those.
There are tools that are used that are designed for the creation of mods without having the source code. If we had the source to Half-Life, do you think that anyone would be playing it in wine right now? |
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IntergalacticWalrus
Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 513
Location: Montreal QC (Canada)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Slashdot |
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| kosamae wrote: | | IntergalacticWalrus wrote: |
As for the gamecode for single player, it's already open sourced. Where do you think mods start their gamecode from?
This does bring up an interesting point though: it would be great if Valve released the source code to the CS gamecode. Easier CS modding would be a great addon. |
Dude, do you know what you're talking about? Apparently the Unreal 2 engine and the Quake 3 engine have been open sourced too, because they're making mods for those.
There are tools that are used that are designed for the creation of mods without having the source code. If we had the source to Half-Life, do you think that anyone would be playing it in wine right now? |
You don't seem to to understand the difference between the engine and game layers on an FPS. Pretty much any FPS has the complete source to its game layer as part of the official modding toolkit and that's how most mods start off. The engine however, is not open (except for older id games, of course).
And yes, I am aware of programs like AdminMod that allow simple server-side modding without having access to the game code layer. They manipulate the low-level calls between the gamecode library and the engine in order to mess around with the game's rules. It's mostly used for CS, since the game layer to CS is closed. |
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kosamae
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 133
Location: (__)(__)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Slashdot |
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| IntergalacticWalrus wrote: |
You don't seem to to understand the difference between the engine and game layers on an FPS. Pretty much any FPS has the complete source to its game layer as part of the official modding toolkit and that's how most mods start off. The engine however, is not open (except for older id games, of course).
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Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about getting the binary source released. The code that is used to execute Half Life, and run the game. We're not talking about getting game layers released, we're talking about game engines. If you weren't referring to the game engine being open-sourced, then why did you bring it up it a dsicussion that's clearly about open-sourcing the game engine? |
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Ribs
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 133
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:34 pm Post subject: 5,000 Entries |
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Hi,
We recently hit 5,000 entries in the database. I would like to take this chance to thank the Gentoo community for making this happen; I could not have done it without you.
Sadly, someone took exception to the site and decided to mail-bomb the address it uses for confirmation e-mails. But I guess you have to take the good with the bad...
Anyway, I just sent an e-mail off to Valve asking them for comments. Hopefully this effort has not been in vain and some result will come from this.
Also thanks to the people who contact me privately with words of encouragement and ideas for the site (even if some were a little... strange). And also thank you to the people who submitted banners.
I shall keep you updated.
-Ribs. |
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SlCKB0Y
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Jul 2002
Posts: 105
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| IntergalacticWalrus wrote: | The whole idea of this petition is flawed. What we really need to demand to Valve is that they stop being Microsoft sellouts. Valve has:
1) Took the Quake1 engine (a portability masterpiece) and filled it with DirectX-specific code to use it in Half-Life. Result: No Half-Life ports, since they made it basically unportable without metric tons of work.
2) Made a Direct3D-specific engine (called "Source") for Half-Life 2. Again, the chances of ports are automatically unlikely.
Valve is yet another company in the gaming industry who is sucking on Microsoft's *guess word here* on a regular basis.
Screw Half-Life 2 and that damn "Source" engine, my money is on DOOM III, a game that wasn't designed by a bunch of Microsoft sellouts who can't figure out that they are screwing up the entire Mac/Linux gaming market by going "Microsoft's way". |
Dude...........ummmm What can I say?
They aren't "sellouts" because they were never on linux' side in the first place. They would have to have been linux friendly, then realised all the money is in developing for windows, then make only Windows programs. This didnt happen.
Your little anti-MS-free-the-world-I-hate-capitalists rant is very very tired indeed. A few years ago i actually might have agreed with you.
They are a company who wants to make money (duh), and if they find that with their training and expereince they can churn the best game out the quickest using Direct3d, then they will use that. It makes financial sense. Why would they want to appease a few thousand linux users who will probably not buy the game anyways? Remember Loki? |
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Halanegri
Guru
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Posts: 351
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| SlCKB0Y wrote: | | Why would they want to appease a few thousand linux users who will probably not buy the game anyways? |
People will definately buy it because without a serial key they will be missing out on the multiplayer experience of the game. |
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`djinn`
n00b
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 15
Location: /Texas/Dallas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:33 pm Post subject: signed |
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I signed it  I sincerly hope that it helps the cause. |
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lblblb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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nipples? |
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named
n00b
Joined: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 13
Location: Sherbrooke, Qc
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:10 am Post subject: |
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I think everyone should sign this petition, even if they are not playing half-life. If VALVE decides to make a linux version of their games, maiby gamers would switch and to linux and encourage the linux community. Linux is a very good gaming platform. By the way, if you guys want to play half-life, i strongly suggest you to emulate it with winex3.3 from transgaming. You can get it from www.transgaming.com. They charge a little amount for it but it worth the price since it's really hard to code. I am using it and have better performance on linux with fluxbox window manager (really light and the best for games) than on Microsoft Windows.
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werfu
n00b
Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 20
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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I really think if we want half-life, we'll have to write a port from scratch...  Startign from an existing Quake port would be a good point. I remember to have read that DarkPlaces support MD2 and Half-Life map.
I know this is a big job, but it would be a nice kick to Valve's butt and they could see we're serious.
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jaska
Bodhisattva
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 725
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| We linux/bsd users are just a smashed bug on VALVE's windshield, they will rather wipe us out then even bother porting anything, even less consider releasing code. |
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goldjd
n00b
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 19
Location: Flushing, NY, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:48 am Post subject: |
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*scribble*scribble* erase-erase-erase *scribble*scribble
There! Signed! Sorry, my handwriting is awful! 
Anyway, I think a Linux port is a great idea. However, I read somewhere that a linux port was released on April 1,2001. And counter-strike.net has a CS 1.6 for Linux download, but they say you need the Half Life for Linux Port to install it. They don't give any clue on how to go about getting that though. Any clues would be greatly appreciated.
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ThE_TemPLaR
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 149
Location: Salon de Provence
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Slashdot |
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| IntergalacticWalrus wrote: |
Believe me, they have PLENTY to lose by releasing the source.
The fact that it's old and "antiquated" does not matter, as the Half-Life engine is still played to death under Counter-Strike. Just look at Quake 1 & 2 : whenever the source code was released, it opened the door to easier aimbots development. And seeing how CS already has a shitload of cheat hacks, releasing the source code won't help. |
http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net
This is more important than a stupid aimbot that can be countered by anti cheats.
Btw, If you want to have the sourcecode of something held by Vivendi, you're dreaming, they have killed the freecraft project and they will continue to kill any derivative Open Source project that comes from their sales.
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MadEgg
l33t
Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 678
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| goldjd wrote: | *scribble*scribble* erase-erase-erase *scribble*scribble
There! Signed! Sorry, my handwriting is awful!
Anyway, I think a Linux port is a great idea. However, I read somewhere that a linux port was released on April 1,2001. And counter-strike.net has a CS 1.6 for Linux download, but they say you need the Half Life for Linux Port to install it. They don't give any clue on how to go about getting that though. Any clues would be greatly appreciated. |
Does 'April Fools Day' mean anything to you 
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Ribs
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 133
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:15 pm Post subject: Source Code to Half Life Two Leaked! |
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In what could prove to be a major turn around for my petition, the source to Half Life Two has been leaked to the public.
Full (actually, fairly short) story:
http://cgi.riblet.plus.com/news.php
-Ribs. |
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TwinGears
n00b
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 33
Location: between the chair and the keyboard on and off
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:57 am Post subject: Half Life |
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Signed it!
Anyone thinking of making Slashdot aware of this. I think it deserves some attention.
Really I say this because after running Q3 in Linux when it first came out, man that just killed my Windose gaming. I mean - OpenGL was born in Unix world thanks to SGI and it's totally addicting. I just couldn't play with those GL flaws in Windose anymore....
Anyways good luck with the petition.
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MadEgg
l33t
Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 678
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Source Code to Half Life Two Leaked! |
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| Ribs wrote: | In what could prove to be a major turn around for my petition, the source to Half Life Two has been leaked to the public.
Full (actually, fairly short) story:
http://cgi.riblet.plus.com/news.php
-Ribs. |
Yea, I also read about it. If it's the real code that could be cool since it could be ported to Linux by someone; on the other hand, who's gonna do it?
There aren't many ppl that do such big projects, and I think that for example Icculus won't port leaked/illegal code.
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Wedge_
Advocate
Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Posts: 3614
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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It does appear to be the real code, but like you say, I don't think many people would risk porting it because they could be jumped on by large numbers of lawyers. Valve only have themselves to blame though, it was f*cking stupid to allow internet access to their development network.
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MadEgg
l33t
Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 678
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, and stupid to enable samba file-sharing on those internet-connected computers, and to not secure that samba file-sharing and to use Windows in the first place.
All real stupid. But then again; deciding not to make a Linux port in the first place is stupid as well.
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TheJabberwokk
Apprentice
Joined: 13 Aug 2002
Posts: 196
Location: Gloucester
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:10 pm Post subject: to get around copyright! |
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There is a loop hole in the copyright, one is alowed to make a parody of the product. Since Valve refused to allow a linux port. A linux port could be considered a parody.
my $0.02 |
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The Mountain Man
l33t
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 643
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Parodies are generally humorous or satrical in nature. Weird Al Yankovich's music is a parody. A straight port of a software product is not.
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Ribs
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 133
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:41 am Post subject: Update. Closing words. |
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Hi
On the request of a another forum member, I have decided to update you on progress.
As you already know, the source code to Half Life 2 was leaked some months ago. This un-expected turn of events has lead to the possiblity of a un-offical port for Linux. This is, of course, extremely hot water to be in legally, and with the current legal situations ariseing all over the 'net recently (Kazaa Lite, RIAA, etc.), I can't see a port being made any time soon.
Some work was done on a 'portal' site for any un-offical ports of Half Life. This is currently on hold due to the lack of any ports, and the community required to keep a site of this nature active.
The only un-offical version of Half Life is the one which is currently circluating various piracy groups. I have not tried this port myself (and don't intend to), but I hear that a lot of code was missing, so the un-offical release has poor AI replacement routines, amoungst other things. I would suspect it has various backdoors as well.
Going the 'proper' route doesn't seem to be an option any more. Valve completely ignored my e-mails before the source was stolen, and I expect that the situation will not improve. This has lead me to sadly say that my project to get a port to Linux is pretty much dead in the water. Many said this would be the case, and they were right. But at least I tried, even if I did fail.
This forum has inspired me, however. I can see there is a strong gaming community in Gentoo, and I thank you all for signing the petition (which will still be taking entries, on the off chance). I have searched the Internet for various Linux gaming sites, as I will soon be taking my tired (but still a very nice card, in it's own right) Voodoo3 out of service, I wanted to see how I could take advantage of the new card (a GeForce FX 5950, hopefully). I'm sadly dissapointed by the lack of a dedicated Linux resource which is up-to-date. linuxgames.com came close, but really didn't have what I wanted. If the demand is there, I may just make a site myself...
Feedback is welcome.
-Ribs |
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PovMan
Guru
Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 375
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Update. Closing words. |
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| Ribs wrote: | I'm sadly dissapointed by the lack of a dedicated Linux resource which is up-to-date. linuxgames.com came close, but really didn't have what I wanted. If the demand is there, I may just make a site myself...
Feedback is welcome. |
Please! Linuxgames has a terrible forum. if you do make a site, please at least make a good forum like this one. I could help with it during the next few months as i have time off.
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