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mdeininger
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: [einit] 0.25.0 - hybrid deps Reply with quote

A new eINIT is out again!

Release Notes:
This release reworks some of eINIT's internals. Among other things, this means we cut a lot of the services you'd normally need to enable manually.
special goodies include automatic module unloading (if enabled separately) and reworked module specs.
----------------------
"Automatic" Services:
* ipc
* tty
* hwclock
* udev
* fs-proc
* fs-sys
Removed Services:
* mount-system

The bit about the reworked modules specs has one drawback (apart from being really nice to use): Everyone with custom modules will have to modify them to fit the new specs, since we dropped support for the old ones. The alternative would be fetching the 'module-xml-old.c' file off svn and dropping it in /etc/einit/modules-c. Since that file will be unmaintained now, this wouldn't be the best idea, but it'd work as a temporary fix.
Ryan wrote this to help with explaining how the new modules work and look like: http://www.rit.edu/~rmh3093/XML_SH%20Services.html . give it a good look, it's well done and explains everything quite nicely :).

The usual bugfixes are mostly related to memory leaks and some weirdness in glibc with massive fork()-ing in different threads at the same time.

What does bear a larger note is the thing about these new "automatic services": eINIT is now using sort of a hybrid event/dependency based bootup model: most of the actual services are ordered using dependencies, since that makes a lot of sense. before those are started however, there is a "pre-boot" phase, where the system is initialised using a series of events -- for one thing that makes sure nobody accidentally leaves out something important, the other good bit about it is that it makes sure things go fast while making the order a bit more rigid but still allowing good parallelisation.

And last but not least, there is one exciting enhancement: "module unloading". that allows for stripping .so modules out of memory if they're not needed. This is disabled by default (since this is an actual release and we want to be sure this is gonna be alright), but it does seem rather promising in getting einit's memory usage back down to embedded levels.

Like this? well, then go get it!
-------------------------------
homepage: http://einit.org
downloads (right off berlios): https://developer.berlios.de/project/showfiles.php?group_id=8423
layman overlay: einit (not shown by default)

Got any issues, requests or other things?
-------------------------------
bugtracker: http://einit.org/project/issues
IRC: freenode#einit


Alright, that's it for today. Good luck/have fun everyone :)

EDIT: just for cakes, there's this bootchart of my box: http://einit.org/charts/helios-static.png

EDIT.2: updated the new module specs bit with a link, kudos ryan! :)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

booting fine here :)
einit --wtf shows some errors though
Code:
# einit --wtf
eINIT 0.25.0#2176: Initialising: Linux
 >> initialising in-core modules: [einit-module-so] [einit-bootstrap-configuration-xml-expat] OK
 * configuration variable "configuration-services-sysctl/config" not found.
 > which: no rnv in (/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin)

also its still trying to fsck and mount my swap partition which is kinda annoying.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pussi wrote:
booting fine here :)
einit --wtf shows some errors though
Code:
# einit --wtf
eINIT 0.25.0#2176: Initialising: Linux
 >> initialising in-core modules: [einit-module-so] [einit-bootstrap-configuration-xml-expat] OK
 * configuration variable "configuration-services-sysctl/config" not found.
 > which: no rnv in (/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin)

also its still trying to fsck and mount my swap partition which is kinda annoying.
whoops... i totally forgot about the fsck on swap :/. well, at least it probably doesn't hurt :)

not sure about the sysctl thing, shouldn't occur with updated modules-xml (0.70.0), but the rnv is just an info/reminder: if you update the layman repo and emerge text-apps/rnv, then your all of einit's .xml files will get checked against a schema definition to make spotting errors or misconfigurations easier :).
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
not sure about the sysctl thing, shouldn't occur with updated modules-xml (0.70.0),
weird.. I have modules-xml 0.70.0 as well..
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pussi wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
not sure about the sysctl thing, shouldn't occur with updated modules-xml (0.70.0),
weird.. I have modules-xml 0.70.0 as well..
mh, there was an update to /etc/einit/conf.d/sysctl.xml... this is how it looks like upstream:
Code:
<einit prefix="configuration-services">
 <!-- point his to your sysctl.conf -->
 <sysctl config="/etc/sysctl.conf" />
</einit>


with that, it shouldn't produce the error message :).
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for some reason the whole /etc/einit/conf.d/ directory was missing
reinstalled einit and got rid of that error
thanks for your help
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about lvm?
Is it possible to use einit with lvm volumes now? (I mean /usr, /var etc on lvm).
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pussi wrote:
for some reason the whole /etc/einit/conf.d/ directory was missing
reinstalled einit and got rid of that error
thanks for your help

np, glad it works for you :)

mirekm wrote:
What about lvm?
Is it possible to use einit with lvm volumes now? (I mean /usr, /var etc on lvm).

Aye, just add the "device-mapper" service to your boot or default mode and that should work out fine... I think... I haven't exactly tested this myself, the module was contributed. if it doesn't work, it'll just need an updated xml module though, so we could probably work that out easily :).
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StifflerStealth
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about multiple IPs per network card? As soon as that is supported, I can test this out. :)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StifflerStealth wrote:
What about multiple IPs per network card? As soon as that is supported, I can test this out. :)
that one's scheduled for the next release, with the new networking module :).

right now you'd have to make a custom ip module... would work fine too, just a bit messy ;). if you knew the needed commands, it'd be alright though :)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
StifflerStealth wrote:
What about multiple IPs per network card? As soon as that is supported, I can test this out. :)
that one's scheduled for the next release, with the new networking module :).

right now you'd have to make a custom ip module... would work fine too, just a bit messy ;). if you knew the needed commands, it'd be alright though :)
I'll wait for the next release then. :P I don't know the commands except for those used by Baselayout2 in the network setup. The command I used in /etc/conf.d/net is: config_eth0="'dhcp' '192.168.0.1/16'"

That's a nice simple line. :D I love simple. Then why'd I go with Gentoo...? :P hehe. Thanks for your hard work on this. I can't wait to try it. :)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

StifflerStealth wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
StifflerStealth wrote:
What about multiple IPs per network card? As soon as that is supported, I can test this out. :)
that one's scheduled for the next release, with the new networking module :).

right now you'd have to make a custom ip module... would work fine too, just a bit messy ;). if you knew the needed commands, it'd be alright though :)
I'll wait for the next release then. :P I don't know the commands except for those used by Baselayout2 in the network setup. The command I used in /etc/conf.d/net is: config_eth0="'dhcp' '192.168.0.1/16'"

That's a nice simple line. :D I love simple. Then why'd I go with Gentoo...? :P hehe. Thanks for your hard work on this. I can't wait to try it. :)


what is the behavior of that line, does it always run dhcp then assign a static ip or is that syntax like a fall back, so if dhcp fails the static is configured?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From baselayout's net.example:

Multiple IP addresses:
Code:
# If you need more than one address, you can use something like this
# NOTE: ifconfig creates an aliased device for each extra IPv4 address
#       (eth0:1, eth0:2, etc)
#       iproute2 does not do this as there is no need to
#config_eth0="'192.168.0.2/24' '192.168.0.3/24' '192.168.0.4/24'"
# Or you can use sequence expressions
#config_eth0="192.168.0.{2..4}/24" # FIXME - does it work?
# which does the same as above. Be careful though as if you use this and
# fallbacks, you have to ensure that both end up with the same number of
# values otherwise your fallback won't work correctly.



Fallback config:
Code:
# If a specified module fails (like dhcp - see below), you can specify a
# fallback like so
#fallback_eth0="'192.168.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0'"
#fallback_route_eth0="'default via 192.168.0.1'"
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

niceness wrote:
From baselayout's net.example:

Multiple IP addresses:
Code:
# If you need more than one address, you can use something like this
# NOTE: ifconfig creates an aliased device for each extra IPv4 address
#       (eth0:1, eth0:2, etc)
#       iproute2 does not do this as there is no need to
#config_eth0="'192.168.0.2/24' '192.168.0.3/24' '192.168.0.4/24'"
# Or you can use sequence expressions
#config_eth0="192.168.0.{2..4}/24" # FIXME - does it work?
# which does the same as above. Be careful though as if you use this and
# fallbacks, you have to ensure that both end up with the same number of
# values otherwise your fallback won't work correctly.



Fallback config:
Code:
# If a specified module fails (like dhcp - see below), you can specify a
# fallback like so
#fallback_eth0="'192.168.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0'"
#fallback_route_eth0="'default via 192.168.0.1'"


thanks
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dhcp gives me an address on 192.168.1.x and a netmask of 255.255.255.0. However, there is also another subnet on the network that is in the ip range of 192.168.0.x and a netmask of 255.255.0.0. The "/16" in '192.168.0.1/16' is shorthand for 255.255.0.0. :) My computer connects to two networks with the same card. I have no more room in the computer for another network card. I need to do it this way for now until a better solution comes along, but it works fine and the two networks are still completely separate of each other.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

StifflerStealth wrote:
My dhcp gives me an address on 192.168.1.x and a netmask of 255.255.255.0. However, there is also another subnet on the network that is in the ip range of 192.168.0.x and a netmask of 255.255.0.0. The "/16" in '192.168.0.1/16' is shorthand for 255.255.0.0. :) My computer connects to two networks with the same card. I have no more room in the computer for another network card. I need to do it this way for now until a better solution comes along, but it works fine and the two networks are still completely separate of each other.


Yeah I know that is possible, I just wanted to make sure we were on the same wavelength. I haven't use gentoo's init scripts in almost a year so I dont know how anything behaves anymore.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: [einit] 0.25.0 - hybrid deps Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
And last but not least, there is one exciting enhancement: "module unloading". that allows for stripping .so modules out of memory if they're not needed. This is disabled by default (since this is an actual release and we want to be sure this is gonna be alright), but it does seem rather promising in getting einit's memory usage back down to embedded levels.
How do you enable this? I didn't see anything relevant in any config files.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: [einit] 0.25.0 - hybrid deps Reply with quote

pussi wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
And last but not least, there is one exciting enhancement: "module unloading". that allows for stripping .so modules out of memory if they're not needed. This is disabled by default (since this is an actual release and we want to be sure this is gonna be alright), but it does seem rather promising in getting einit's memory usage back down to embedded levels.
How do you enable this? I didn't see anything relevant in any config files.

there's a section in einit.xml with a variable called "allow-code-unloading".

it should work if you put this in your local.xml:
Code:
 <core>
  <settings>
   <allow-code-unloading b="true" />
  </settings>
 </core>


most modules can't unload yet tho... they need to export a special set of functions for the core to allow unloading them. some of the smaller modules + the module logics core seem to work fine for unloading tho, and in svn it can also unload expat and the configuration file parser.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: [einit] 0.25.0 - hybrid deps Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
pussi wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
And last but not least, there is one exciting enhancement: "module unloading". that allows for stripping .so modules out of memory if they're not needed. This is disabled by default (since this is an actual release and we want to be sure this is gonna be alright), but it does seem rather promising in getting einit's memory usage back down to embedded levels.
How do you enable this? I didn't see anything relevant in any config files.

there's a section in einit.xml with a variable called "allow-code-unloading".

it should work if you put this in your local.xml:
Code:
 <core>
  <settings>
   <allow-code-unloading b="true" />
  </settings>
 </core>


most modules can't unload yet tho... they need to export a special set of functions for the core to allow unloading them. some of the smaller modules + the module logics core seem to work fine for unloading tho, and in svn it can also unload expat and the configuration file parser.
yeah.. I just though I could test this as well..
apparently it suspended 6 modules and no problems so far
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: [einit] 0.25.0 - hybrid deps Reply with quote

pussi wrote:
yeah.. I just though I could test this as well..
apparently it suspended 6 modules and no problems so far
thank you :)

yeah that's good then... i didn't push it on by default for the release because... well, you never know. let me know if it produces more issues, i'll fix up more modules for it in svn :).
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@mdeininger: I looked at your bootchart and I noticed you have to load the less possible daemons
(no lirc, no mysql, not even a cron if I spotted right).
That's what all your bootcharts (for every alternative system, not just einit but initng, etc.etc.) are.

Now, I have another idea for a daemon I'm thinking about since months, to let people load those "really low priority"
daemons and still have decent boot times.
I explain myself,daemons like lircd or mysqld or vixie cron are not really needed at boot, but later.
(yes, that's how it works in the hatred O.S....)

So another little daemon can stay in idle while booting, then starting to add those "not hurry-up processes"
with relatively low priority (eq: niceness 10 or so).

Do you think this may be a useful idea?



I also noticed that you have 1 ext2 and 2 ext3 partitions to fsck at boot, how did you solved the little issue of the
complete ext2/3 fsck (those various seconds needed for a long fsck , by default once every 24 boots),
are you just skipping them?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matteo Azzali wrote:
I also noticed that you have 1 ext2 and 2 ext3 partitions to fsck at boot, how did you solved the little issue of the
complete ext2/3 fsck (those various seconds needed for a long fsck , by default once every 24 boots),
are you just skipping them?
they can be disabled with
Code:
# tune2fs -c 0 -i 0 /dev/partition

see https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-305871.html
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pussi wrote:
Matteo Azzali wrote:
I also noticed that you have 1 ext2 and 2 ext3 partitions to fsck at boot, how did you solved the little issue of the
complete ext2/3 fsck (those various seconds needed for a long fsck , by default once every 24 boots),
are you just skipping them?
they can be disabled with
Code:
# tune2fs -c 0 -i 0 /dev/partition

see https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-305871.html

ehm... I know that them can be disabled, but I know also that they're there by default because useful,
so I was asking myself if there's another way to do the serious and real ext3 fsck without sleeping at boot or
just disabling them completely (I'd guess my answer is no)...

What's more fun about the link you posted is that they suggest to not disable the lenghty fsck from XFS and ReiserFS,
now I don't know for XFS, but ReiserFS has not any lenghty fsck, just the shorter ones :lol:
Also I have some doubts on what's said there, yes journalling does help, but if "that lenghty fscks" were completely useless
they wouldn't be turned on by default, for sure not in every given distro .
(if you're interested, you may check this little discussion about that topic)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey there Matteo Azzali :)

my fstab layout is even more interesting really, there's also a couple tmpfs and nfs volumes to spice tings up ;). you're right i'm not using lirc nor mysql or a cron, but that's because the box i took the data on was a desktop... you might be interested in the bootcharts on my server though, which is using mysql + cron, but no x on the other hand... only uses 7 seconds on einit though ;).

your idea is not a bad one. in fact, i believe that's how things work in osx too... i read up a bit more on that because i wanted to get launchd data file compatibility going, which would require internal cron and xinetd functionality: there launchd starts required services /only/ if they're used... so it's kind of like a super xinetd...
you should look into ryan's bootcharts a bit, those are really swift and he's using a lot more services than me (still his charts from boot->login are shorter than mine...).

einit does keep a special thread running after it's done, so we could do something like your idea easily... any concrete ideas for when to schedule them for enabling? i'm not sure on that one...

about the fscks: i made it so that einit will always fire up a quick-fsck on all filesystems it'll mount, unless the "skip-fsck" option is set (or /fastboot exists), which is why the fsck.* shows up on boot. the command used for each is '/sbin/fsck -a -T -t <fs-type> <fs-devicenode>', which seems to be a reliable way to always ensure an fsck... returns clean if the fs was unounted properly, too.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
hey there Matteo Azzali :)

my fstab layout is even more interesting really, there's also a couple tmpfs and nfs volumes to spice tings up ;). you're right i'm not using lirc nor mysql or a cron, but that's because the box i took the data on was a desktop... you might be interested in the bootcharts on my server though, which is using mysql + cron, but no x on the other hand... only uses 7 seconds on einit though ;).

Well, my desktop has even timidity and tor (hamachi clamd and festival are usually off ), those were just an example, probably a wrong one..
Quote:

your idea is not a bad one. in fact, i believe that's how things work in osx too... i read up a bit more on that because i wanted to get launchd data file compatibility going, which would require internal cron and xinetd functionality: there launchd starts required services /only/ if they're used... so it's kind of like a super xinetd...
you should look into ryan's bootcharts a bit, those are really swift and he's using a lot more services than me (still his charts from boot->login are shorter than mine...).

einit does keep a special thread running after it's done, so we could do something like your idea easily... any concrete ideas for when to schedule them for enabling? i'm not sure on that one...

The "right" idea would be to add an attribute like D (delayed) to the rc-scripts memorizations so they can be displayed
together with standard ones, them should start to load (with 10 or more niceness) some secs after the first login from the boot.
(there could even be a command through dbus or the likes that a user could send to trigger the loading, for example
in the autostarted scripts from the WM or just while XDM/KDM/GDM is waiting for login, after everything else has been loaded)
Quote:

about the fscks: i made it so that einit will always fire up a quick-fsck on all filesystems it'll mount, unless the "skip-fsck" option is set (or /fastboot exists), which is why the fsck.* shows up on boot. the command used for each is '/sbin/fsck -a -T -t <fs-type> <fs-devicenode>', which seems to be a reliable way to always ensure an fsck... returns clean if the fs was unounted properly, too.

Hum, that's also about 100% sure even if it was unmounted not properly while not writing the journal,
however not if it was unmounted not properly while writing the journal.
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