I'm leaving gentoo (sick of it)

jsosic · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: I'm leaving gentoo (sick of it)

No, no... It's not another "farewell, I want you all to cry after me" threads

And I'm not leaving...

I just wanted to comment on the latest trends of devs and users leaving Gentoo... I'm really sad to see things like this happen, but I wasn't following forums for the past few months, and really didn't even notice all this fuss going on in my background. My Gentoo 4 years old installation still works beautifully, I've upgraded on regular basis, and to tell you the truth I never experienced any problems with Gentoo...

Sure, I've come around few broken ebuilds or compiles, few bad syncs that needed repeating, but still, no major issues. I have about 900 packages on my system, I use '--depclean', revdep-rebuild, Java, masked packages, few packages from unstable (~) branch, gees, I have about 500 lines in my /etc/portage customization files, and everything still works perfectly.

Only degradation of quality that I've noticed are really bad GUI installer in some 2006.x release and slowing down of portage. So one must wonder, are all these "I'm leaving, I'm sick of it, I'm furious, I, I, I and me" posts only pissed off newbie users that can't handle Gentoo? I mean, come on... is it really that hard to keep the system up to date? I don't find it any harder or more time consuming than on Debian servers I maintain. And you should really see a pain in the ass when you have to roll back to previous version of updated package on a Debian system... So, I must admit, I don't get it. Can some of these disappointed users explain it to me what is the problem? 'cause I must be stupid or missing something

Also, any of other, stickin-to-gentoo users, has anyone noticed any QA degradation in the last 6 months? Maybe some slowdown on update of ebuilds for newer versions of programs or something?
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bunder · Bodhisattva Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 5934

i think the recent split ebuilds might have slowed down my portage... but i can't exactly prove that. :lol:

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Phenax · l33t Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 972

I believe they are working on a new installer, and as well as cleaning up Portage AFAIK. (Don't quote me, though).

Anyways, I agree. I run full on ~amd64 with a few unhardmasked packages. Works exceptionally, I encounter an issue once a month if I'm unlucky. Otherwise my system runs perfectly and by no means is it "Time consuming." When I handle upgrades, my PORTAGE_NICENESS is on 19, so even my most resource-heavy applications can run perfectly while compiling.

drwook · Veteran Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 1324 Location: London

Sure, the portage tree's bigger hence sync's take a few seconds longer. So what? If someone's going to ditch gentoo to save a few seconds on a sync, 1/ who cares, whatever; 2/ enjoy dependancy issues with binary packages...; 3/ off you go then, don't call me I'll call you.

If people have a *real* issue, they should do something about it.

Maybe, if you're running a P2-350 w/128Mb of RAM, the solution really is to go use a binary distro. Maybe, if you have the mental prowess of a donkey and can't live without a cedega subscription and zero-thought system upgrades, the solution really is to sod off and use windows. Maybe if you've been a debian/freebsd/solaris/whatever sysadmin for 300 years and just 'don't get/like gentoo', the solution is to go use what you know.

But then, for the few that really fall into the above, there are many who could improve the situation. If something won't compile, and it's not your own fault, open a bug. Give meaningful info. Heck, attach a patch if you can. If something doesn't work as expected, do the same. If you don't understand something, go find out. If nobody knows, research it yourself, and let other people know (you've found others with the same issue when looking for a solution, right?)

egoist · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject:

Now, how many of this kind of threads are there already. I think quite a few.

Mousee · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject:

jsosic · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject:

andyandrews35 · n00b Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

Has overall been satisfying.

I like that it is:

1) Free
2) Well supported
3) Much more secure than windows

I have had some headaches, but once I invested some more time, these pains turned to pleasure. For me starting with the live-cd kernel config and slimming down has been the answer. I think many of the devs are too proud to do this.
As for users, I haven't seen the evidence of them getting sick of it. We have a network sys-admin at work who plays with Gentoo in his spare time, and he has taught himself Unix that way. So for the motivated user I think it could broaden his/her horizons! And, it's free.

sageman · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:56 am Post subject: !

I'm definitely a "stickin-to-gentoo" user, have the same install on this system for around 3 years. Haven't really noticed any QA degradation or slowdown.

Gentoo has kept me around for a number of reasons:
1) No damn GUI configuration necessary.
All the "howto's" and all cover setting stuff up the old-fashion way, with a bash prompt, vi and some /etc files. This is the way for me. Any configuration HOWTO that starts by saying "open up such and such and click on this and then click on that" just isn't for me. Course, you can do this in any distro, but this is the default/explained method in Gentoo, and I appreciate that.

2) Tons of documentation.
I find when my friends ask questions about other distros, I refer them to a Gentoo page on the topic, and it helps them. The documenation, via the actual HOWTOs, the forums and the Wiki are just spectacular.

3) Portage.
I absolutely love the portage system, and there are tons of packages. Making custom ebuilds is not that difficult, too.

4) Ease of customization.
I don't have to install a "KDE" ubuntu or an "XFCE" ubuntu, just Gentoo,and do whatever I want. You can build it more from the ground-up, which I really like. Sure, you *can* do it with ubuntu, but it's not exactly encouraged; it's clearly, download the iso for what you want.

5) Upgrades
Upgrading Gentoo is just an "emerge world" away. Upgrading other systems? It usually works, but sometimes, you might as well just download the new iso (I had this problem way back with Slackware, could be way better now). Is it a "dapper" or "edgy" install? Who cares! Just update the profile and emerge away.
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jseymour · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:00 am Post subject:

I am a fairly new Gentoo user, but a long time Linux user. I will definitely be a long time "stickin-to-gentoo" user. Even when using distros like Redhat or Mandrake I still preferred to compile my own software on my system. I hated the fact that certain options that I did not want or need came with the binary packages. But compiling on those systems required you to research dependencies to get a finished compile.

Recently I posted in another Linux forum my desires for a perfect distro for me, and that is when several stated that gentoo was the one for me to look into.

I started with the minimal install CD, and it took me about 4 tries and about a week and a half to get the basic install complete (and I loved every minute I spent on it). After that I built the rest of the system to suit me (and only me). Then I got a little crazy and killed it. The basic reinstall took me 2 or 3 hours, and then a couple of days to customize the system again. Been running perfect ever since.

I am no programmer, just an avid Linux user. For me Gentoo stands for the way Linux was meant to be, a custom OS built for the user using it.

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kel_p · n00b Joined: 05 Feb 2007 Posts: 31 Location: Amsterdam

Roman_Gruber · Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject:

I aggree with gentoo, I saw that my harddrive, a PATA drive is the slowest device in my notebook. I have 1800 MHZ Turion CPU, x700 ati card, 1GB of RAM.
Gentoo needs a lot of RAM, so my next machine needs at least 4GB of it.

aidanjt · Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject:

RobertDavid · Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject:

It is not gentoo who eats your memory, but this are programs you use, have a lot of ram, why not to use some mem.consuming programs,

I know that 512MB is enough for normal using of gnome or KDE,

personaly I light programs, many times console based and in normal situatins (web browsing, watching video, file edititing,browsing all together) I dont reach 100MB of used ram, whole 512MB on my system is used only rarely (huge program compiling, big picture gimp editing, some math programming...)

So it is what is awsome on gentoo, just chose what you want, how you want and for what is your computer suited.

I have sometimes had a need to try another distro, but it is impossible, those who get used to gentoo and like that way, cant change. Nothing is better suited for me.
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turtles · Veteran Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Posts: 1658

Potato Bob · n00b Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 37

To me gentoo doesn't seem like another "newbie" linux distribution, so I'm sure that it's common that we get a bunch of people trying gentoo and leaving out of frustration. It is sad that gentoo is getting put down so harshly by many people, but hopefully gentoo will recover quickly

Drysh · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject:

nix13 · n00b Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 18

I just wish there were two maintained portage trees a stable tree geared toward production servers and a cutting edge tree for users to test on, keep up with the latest software, desktops etc...

It would make admin's lives much easier who use gentoo on production servers.

Just my thoughts....

aidanjt · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject:

Samoth · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject:

There was an old GLEP that was supposed to create a release-based tree that is stable.

It wasn't accepted, and frankly, Gentoo doesn't have the manpower necessary to maintain a stable tree(including backporting patches).
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Ezhdeha · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: No problems here

I've never really had problems keeping portage up to date even on my AMD64 system.

Just a careful knowledge of masking would help out here I think
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njcwotx · Guru Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 587 Location: Texas

I for one will not be leaving Gentoo any time soon. I have no troubles that can't be overcome. I have had a few difficult ones now and then, but that just added to my skills and joy of computing. I have built many Gentoo boxes over the last several years and all my *serious* boxes are Gentoo. I tried a few distros early on and found that my many years administering Windows made understanding of Linux very difficult. One day a fews years ago we had some programmers from the local college working on a project over the summer who convinced me that Gentoo was the best distribution for me to use. After reading the excellent documentation, becoming a member of this forum (which is quite excellent too I might add), and installing Gentoo about 3-4 times with the manual I found that my understanding of all things Linux finally started to click.

Seriously, Gentoo brings back the fun that computers gave me when I was just a young lad pecking on an Apple II and a DOS 3.3 box. The only difference now is that I actually know what I am doing this time! :lol:

I have tried other distributions and they didn't quite give me the same joy that Gentoo has. I am not sure what it is, but I just love having complete control of everything at my fingertips. Much like how a boy will take apart a new toy to see how it works, I like being able to open the source, manually screw up the configs, or try out some new software (all for free I might add). I have to work in a predominantly Windows environment to pay the bills, but I have a couple of Gentoo boxes stashed around the network for troubleshooting and reconaisance.

:arrow:

Unfortunately, I have a boss that is not a Linux man and he recenly took my Nagios/SNMP/RRD/NTOP network monitoring box I built and made it somebody's Windows workstation. It was quite the sad day for me, that box allowed me to keep a handle on my entire company's network from anywhere quickly. I could even pop in on my blackberry and check the status of things or ssh in and actually fix network problems via my Gentoo box. His comment to me? "Dude, you need to start coming up with solutions that involve windows apps" and I replied, "OK, do you have the $25,000 to pay for HP Open View?"

Anyway, I fullly love Gentoo, but I do admit that I keep a few other easier to install distros for quick installs when I need a quick kick around box or I want to torture my non-technical wife or kids. I downloaded Sabayon the other day but haven't tried it, I might actually use that on a laptop I use to surf the web from the living room.
But I will always be a Gentoo'er!
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amp_man · n00b Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 26 Location: Bangor, ME

What I don't understand is why people seem to think that they have to post in a forum that they're going to stop using the software. Yeah, I ran Red Hat 8, 9, and then FC1,2, and 3 (all at the time were current). Did I whine, bitch, moan, and complain about fedora's piss-poor package management system, or lack of an update system that worked properly on a slow internet connection in their webforums? Did I announce the fact that a long-time user who had never donated a dime to the cause, nor a line of code, nor even clicked on an ad, would never do any of those things again? No, I just downloaded ubuntu and said good riddance.

I've been using Gentoo for about a year now, and my server's went down due to an update once, during the transition from 2006.0 to 2006.1 and the new Xorg. Other than that, it's been smooth sailing, updates about once a week or so, portage set up not to sync anything I don't use, and I just don't think about it. And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to see if I can get gentoo embedded working on my carpc

shazam75 · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: My experience with Gentoo

erm67 · l33t Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 653 Location: EU

I installed gentoo 1.4 years ago and more or less regularly updated it since. Sometimes I think about switching to another distro and read everything I can about them browse the list of available packages and open bugs etc. etc. and then inevitably decide to stay with gentoo.
It seems from some posts here that gentoo is already down the road to extinction, well I am too lazy to switch now so I think I will wait until the last sync server is gone. Please someone post a notice here when it no longer exists.

Seriously I really like the fact that packages are compiled locally, previously I used redhat based distros and spent much time compiling packages I needed, finding deps, packaging into rpm and so on, community created rpm were often buggy or worst insecure. So the only alternative I really considered were crux linux and linux from scratch, both appealing to me since I like to write scripts, ebuilds or simply watch the familiar output of gcc in a terminal, but to install and maintain all the software that gentoo actually offers on those distro would require a much greater work than trying to fix the few ebuilds occasionally non-working or write a few new for the really-cute-niche-app-I-like-so-much.

I find gentoo sunrise a good idea even i I do not use it, maybe moving the last ebuild of a pkg before removal to an overlay like that could encourage someone to adopt it. It would also have a better psychological impact, the package has not been removed but simply moved into an overlay.