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ESR dumps Fedora for Ubuntu
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feld
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:18 pm    Post subject: ESR dumps Fedora for Ubuntu Reply with quote

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/02/21/1340237


Ouch...

Fedora users: how do you feel about what he has to say?

I am currently an Ubuntu user.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The culture of the project's core group has become steadily more unhealthy, more inward-looking, more insistent on narrow "free software" ideological purity, and more disconnected from the technical and evangelical challenges that must be met to make Linux a world-changing success that liberates a majority of computer users.


Sounds like ESR.

I have a feeling that is what this is really about. ESR has been pushing for relaxing these restrictions for a while. Ubuntu looks like it might go the way he wants, and he wants to throw his weight behind it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the fine article wrote:

Canonical's recent deal with Linspire, which will give Linux users legal access to WMF and other key proprietary codecs, is precisely the sort of thing Red-Hat/Fedora could and should have taken the lead in

So, Red Hat should have sold its soul to the <insert_underworld_deity>? Not that I have a huge issue with U/K/Xbuntu, but...?

Interesting article. Fedora/RH have a foothold in one of my departments (note where I live...coincidence?). You'd have to pry it out of their dying hands.
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playfool
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric posts that kind of a message about once a year (Luckily it's also the only message Eric ever sends to the Fedora mailing lists) and no matter what we Fedora people do he'll post 12 months later saying the complete opposite thing. I think David Cantrell' comment was the most insightful one:

David Cantrell wrote:

We got this email last year, Eric, but it had slightly different
content. I think. Maybe. It's hard to read your messages. They are
SO BORING. They read like anything in the USA Today.

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2006-March/msg01286.html

From your post last year, you were "threatening to jump very publicly to
another distribution and orphan several Fedora-related HOWTOs in the
process" and it looks like [from the content of last year's email], we
fixed a lot of things that bothered you about FC3 and FC4 and we have
been able to keep you as a loyal user for 13 years now. Clearly
threatening us gets us to fix things that bother people.

Last year you noted that our infrastructure by FC5 was great. Yum was
doing upgrades well and we no longer suffered from "egregious fuckups."
But now you say it's a huge problem again in the current email by noting
our "incompetent repository maintenance" and our non-statically linked
rpm. So what is the problem? Is it user incompetence or are you
actually aware of the infrastructure changes that take place or are
taking place? Reading your message, my guess is you are just
misinformed and that frustrates you.

It also looks like you failed on this issue from last year's message
from you:

...it's clear from the devel-list traffic that the
submission pathway for new packages has got most if not all of the
process issues shaken out of it. I had meant to get more directly
involved in that, there are four or five things I want to package
and submit myself, but higher-priority tasks ate my bandwidth. One
of my resolutions for 2006 is to make time for those submissions.

But then in the new message, you say:

* A murky, poorly-documented, over-complex submission process.

So, did you get your four or five packages done and submitted?

And that's about all of the message I can take.

Looking forward to next year's post. Consider an InfoGraphic for
next year's post. Imagine what you can say with a chart!


Eric is basically acting like a primadonna, like we owe him something because he is Eric Raymond (rather than showing his weight as a contributor since it's non existant), when we reject the idea of compromising the basis of the distribution and of free software he throws a hissyfit and attempts to use his public platform to attack Fedora on grounds that just aren't reasonable. It's not like he tries to be prodcutive, it's basically a new ultimatum every 12 months.. or else. If it stops him senselessly attacking Fedora with such regularity I do hope he goes to Ubuntu, it would be best for everyone involved and hopefully Eric would be a less angry man because of it.
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tageiru
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ESR wrote:
Canonical's recent deal with Linspire, which will give Linux users legal access to WMF and other key proprietary codecs, is precisely the sort of thing Red-Hat/Fedora could and should have taken the lead in. Not having done so bespeaks a failure of vision which I now believe will condemn Fedora to a shrinking niche in the future.

Even though I am an Ubuntu user I think Fedora is on a much better path for desktop linux. The deal with Linspire is a step back as it ties proprietary software into a centralized repository when it should be managed by vendors themselves. CNR just shifts control from Ubuntu and ISVs to Linspire and its closed platform.

We already have the proper tool for easy management of proprietary codecs, its called gstreamer.
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vibrokatana
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol:

I hate companies who bitch about products publicly, in the real world people sue, but since he doesnt have enough balls to sue a free project he is just trying to throw mud.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought he was dead or missing. Guess somebody found him. Yay!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand how this clown got to be F/OSS spokesperson. AFAIK the only thing he's done was inherit maintaining fetchmail for a while a few years ago and penning horrible "essays". He also thinks he's a a ninja. The guy's an idiot.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

egoist wrote:
I thought he was dead or missing. Guess somebody found him. Yay!
I think I would prefer he be dead/missing.
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yardbird
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ESR is irrelevant anyway...
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ESR needs to get off his damned high-horse and stop believing that we actually care about his opinion. His unfortunate time in the spotlight has long since faded, and he's just trying for publicity (see the CCs on his message?).

With his minimal contributions to the community, someone please tell me how the hell he became its apparent spokesman? ... Yeah, I thought otherwise...

What I find amusing is that, nowhere in his message, did he take the time to use his own advice and post proper bug reports, et al. He keeps saying stuff is broken and flawed, but he never helps constructively critique or improve upon these seemingly-broken items.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, ESR lost his credibility a long time ago. Inflammatory articles like this are counter-productive. Way to set an example. In the interest of disclosure he also should have mentioned he is on the Freespire board.

As for the Ubuntu/Linspire vs Fedora thing, they have different philosophies and are heading different directions. This gives people more choice and I feel is better overall for OSS. I will be moving from Ubuntu to Fedora in April because of the decision, but I'm sure Ubuntu will recruit some new people also if they execute it properly.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

I could see dumping Fedora for Debian, I could see dropping Ubuntu for Fedora...

... but I think ESR is just nuts.
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Lechium
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well ESR wrote one successful essay, and contributed to one OSS project (mail client?) and... well that's about it.
I really dont see why he is regarded as high (or as much) in community. He can use whichever distro he wants and that affects me how?

P.S. I have nothign against him. I dont dislike or disrepsect him. I just dont see him as a very important figure.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does anybody cares what ESR says?

He is past his prime, pretty much irrelevant - and once in a while he writes something controversial to get some attention.

He is an attention whore. Don't bother, just ignore him.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ESR plays a very important role in the F/OSS community. He reminds us never to take ourselves too seriously.
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