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jonnevers
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dralnu wrote:
Its not always going to be the case, but when you have devs leaving for flaming and other crap like that, its kind of hard to think otherwise. I think we all know it isn't all of them who do this, but there are enough that are noisy enough to make it a headache from out here.

and there are like a billion (exaggeration) and a half threads about this very topic. move on, you aren't saying anything new or interesting. I don't have a headache using Gentoo.... I sort of enjoyed the festivities we had for the short while. Rather then attacking the devs, again, if you were to say "well, it appears as if nothing has changed as a result of event X.. that may be indicative of deeper issues that some [devrel, userrel?] refuse to address" now that would be interesting.

VincenzoVega wrote:
jonnevers wrote:
remix: afaict, Gentoo releases are nothing more then profiles that define the current minimal for important system packages. you never "wait" on a release by Gentoo because your system is always as up-to-date as possible thanks to portage. This isn't commercial software or ubuntu (just an example) where you need to go crazy waiting for the next big thing. emerge it now and enjoy!

So when my new hardware isn´t detected / available when using the Gentoo Minimal CD I should just lay back and use an Ubuntu Live CD to install Gentoo ?

wtf does that have to do with what I said? please explain or not.... and wtf do I care what you install? no seriously, install ubuntu, i hear it's great. give it a try. or suse, i hear their corporate support is excellent. or slackware, bareknuckle goodness. how about FreeBSD? or OpenSolaris... can't beat dtrace. does OpenSolaris come with Zones? Windows is great. it's your life, don't ask me what to put on your computer.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
<snip>
and there are like a billion (exaggeration) and a half threads about this very topic. move on, you aren't saying anything new or interesting. I don't have a headache using Gentoo.... I sort of enjoyed the festivities we had for the short while. Rather then attacking the devs, again, if you were to say "well, it appears as if nothing has changed as a result of event X.. that may be indicative of deeper issues that some [devrel, userrel?] refuse to address" now that would be interesting.
<snip>
.... wtf do I care what you install? no seriously, install ubuntu, i hear it's great. give it a try. or suse, i hear their corporate support is excellent. or slackware, bareknuckle goodness. how about FreeBSD? or OpenSolaris... can't beat dtrace. does OpenSolaris come with Zones? Windows is great. it's your life, don't ask me what to put on your computer.

Thank YOU! I really needed that after IRC. Please, can we cut the bs around here?
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millerl
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo to become extinct? Say it isn't so! Reply with quote

MacCrab wrote:
OK. Now, I realize this subject must have come up before somewhere in the forums, but I don't really have the time to look through thousands of posts. Doing a search for this subject found nothing.

Is Gentoo, in fact, suffering through some sort of unpleasant internal strife and upheaval which might cause it to cease to exist? I read an editorial at distrowatch.org which basically said Gentoo is an endangered species. I, as, I'm sure, multiples of thousands of others certainly hope this isn't at all true. After jumping around from one Linux distro to another for over nine years, I've finally settled on Gentoo as being the one I like best, by far.

I'm sorry, but most other distros suck. I can't imagine having to forever knuckle under to FedoraCore. I'd rather drink a cup of dog spit laced with polonium.


bLUEbYTE84 wrote:
Relax, take a deep breath ;) Gentoo is here, and it is strong.


I've been using gentoo now since... 2003. And I too am concerned... I mean, what about this guy:
http://www.shinmashii.net/g2/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4179

It sounds sad, but this [strike]whole mass exodus[/strike] recent loss of (a few) developers has me dreaming about Gentoo. I would love to try to read up on what is going on and am not sure where to turn for information on the subject that is not laden with FUD and rants/flame wars.

Can anyone point me the the right direction?


Last edited by millerl on Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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96140
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What "mass exodus of developers"? There is no such thing; it's not like a dozen devs per day are retiring. Kindly don't spread FUD.
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Genone
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo to become extinct? Say it isn't so! Reply with quote

millerl wrote:
It sounds sad, but this whole mass exodus of developers has me dreaming about Gentoo. I would love to try to read up on what is going on and am not sure where to turn for information on the subject that is not laden with FUD and rants/flame wars.

Can anyone point me the the right direction?

Just my personal opinion, but there isn't really a "mass exodus of developers", maybe the number of leaving devs is slightly above average for the last few weeks, but it's not like we lost half of our dev base (I'd bet it's less than 5% actually). It's just that there has been a lot more noise about some of those departures than usual, esp. in the cases of Diego and Daniel, including targeted accusations and misinformation. That in combination with a high activity of Ciaran on the lists (with the obvious reactions) and people spreading FUD/hearsay without checking the facts (like that DW crap) has IMO caused this bad atmosphere.
Or in simpler terms: Some people/groups just can't get along with each other, and any conflict is blown out of proportions by the media.
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millerl
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightmorph wrote:
What "mass exodus of developers"? There is no such thing; it's not like a dozen devs per day are retiring. Kindly don't spread FUD.


@Nightmorph
I was not attempting to spread FUD. I was actually just looking for a little guidance. My apologies.

@Genone
Thanks for the update/back story.
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theMerge
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all due respect to the ideas for helping developers get along, I believe there needs to be a second tactic. Devs will leave. Some will leave for no good reason, some will leave for real ones. No matter the reason, they WILL leave.

So what needs to be done is offset the attrition of developers is the attraction of new ones. While I realize that devs are not a dime a dozen, there are devs out there that are not currently attached to the project who could be an asset to it. I believe that attracting those developers is just as important as keeping the ones we have.

My suggestions are as follows.
First, increase the value of civility with the developers. At the end of the day the only way to do this is to reward civility as well as talent. The reward? Responsibility of course.

Second, use the fact that Gentoo is still a great distro to attract devs. As a long time user I've reaped the benefits of a speedy customized distro that suits my needs because I have a broader spectrum of control over my computer. I think that if devs knew that they could be a part of a truly creative and innovative project that was civil and respectful, devs would come.

Last, (at least from me) I believe that the best place to get devs is from college students. The users, devs, etc. should try to establish footprints on campuses to recruit devs as they are growing in their talents. If gentoo could be a part of an academic project so much the better.

I am by no means saying that we should just wave goodbye to the devs with a single middle finger as we pursue new ones. What I am saying is that Gentoo is still an exciting distro that has much to offer devs and users alike. If we can do our part to bring these new devs in throuhg civility, a bit of respectful disto-evangelism, and some activism I believe gentoo can continue long into the future.
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VincenzoVega
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
VincenzoVega wrote:
So when my new hardware isn´t detected / available when using the Gentoo Minimal CD I should just lay back and use an Ubuntu Live CD to install Gentoo ?

wtf does that have to do with what I said? please explain or not.... and wtf do I care what you install? no seriously, install ubuntu, i hear it's great. give it a try. or suse, i hear their corporate support is excellent. or slackware, bareknuckle goodness. how about FreeBSD? or OpenSolaris... can't beat dtrace. does OpenSolaris come with Zones? Windows is great. it's your life, don't ask me what to put on your computer.

You can read can't you ? Did you miss the Gentoo-part or something ? I didn't want to install Ubuntu and I certainly didn't want to install the rest. The fact is that the current Gentoo minimal cd (2006.1) doesn't support the latest and greatest. So you have to rely on something crappy like an Ubuntu install cd or some hacked up release (like Kernel of Truth created), thus releasing in a (semi) timely fashion can be quite important.
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desultory
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please, both of you, remain civil. You might both do well to reread the guidelines.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

++desultory
VincenzoVega wrote:
The fact is that the current Gentoo minimal cd (2006.1) doesn't support the latest and greatest. So you have to rely on something crappy like an Ubuntu install cd or some hacked up release (like Kernel of Truth created), thus releasing in a (semi) timely fashion can be quite important.

Well on IRC I always recommend people use Knoppix if they have unusual hardware. 5.1.1 is lovely on DVD too :D You get loads of apps.
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nybbles
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't feel the love anymore :(
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desultory
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nybbles wrote:
I can't feel the love anymore :(
Nor can I, locked.
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