| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
nobleclem
n00b
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Michigan, USA
|
 Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:43 pm Post subject: 16hrs of installing gentoo and I give up... |
 |
|
When they said take a nap when installing KDE... they should have said take a vacation... in about 8hrs the emerge has only done 23 of 63...
I dont have time for this stuff....
I dont think installing any OS should take a more than 4 hrs of work. I am running on 16hrs or so and still dont even have the KDE GUI installed...
sorry gentoo lovers... I will not be one until the install time is shortened... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
BonezTheGoon
Bodhisattva
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 1408
Location: Albuquerque, NM -- birthplace of Microsoft and Gentoo
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The install time won't get shorter so long as we are still compiling from source. The only impact you can have on it is to upgrade to a faster machine (specifically CPU.) Sorry it's not for you. A couple of sayings come to mind though . . .
"Good things come to those who wait"
and
"Work now Play later"
basically to sumarize you get out of it what you put into it. The added time of compiling all of your own OS specifically to be optimized for your needs and your hardware will save you more time in the long run.
That's just my opinion though. I hope you find something you like and enjoy, but don't rain on my parade -- I didn't rain on yours!
Regards,
BonezTheGoon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BonezTheGoon
Bodhisattva
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 1408
Location: Albuquerque, NM -- birthplace of Microsoft and Gentoo
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Also you could try a lighter-weighted gui as well, some of them take less than an hour to compile. Just another side note.
Regards,
BonezTheGoon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nobleclem
n00b
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| like which one? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EliasP
Guru
Joined: 06 Dec 2002
Posts: 318
Location: South-West Germany
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 12:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
Try Fluxbox or enlightenment / enlightenment-cvs
They`re compiled within some minutes..
Greetings
Elias P. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BradB
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 190
Location: Christchurch NZ
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 12:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
I just left my KDE grind away over night. It really is worth it at the end of the day.
Brad |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nobleclem
n00b
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 12:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
how do I install those...
Granted I prolly shouldnt be installing Gentoo because ... well I have never used linux succesfully....
Attempted to use mandrake -- always screw somthing up then nothing works also tried Lindows... Ha well gave up after I found it can even use the make command...
I decided to try gentoo when I saw that it had a pretty robust install guide... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 1:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Moved from Installing Gentoo.
_________________
Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BradB
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 190
Location: Christchurch NZ
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 1:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hey nobleclem - Gentoo can be a little daunting to install, especially as you don't have stacks on linux experience. Keep at the docs & posting in the forums, and you'll get a working system. Unfortuantly is does take a lot of time, but if you can find useful things to do while it's compiling that doesn't matter so much.
If you want to install enlightenment, it will just be a matter of "emerge enlightenment"
Also, if you haven't yet installed X, the "emerge kde" will have to do that as well, and X takes a while to get compiled.
However, after your system is up & running compiles aren't so much of a hassle as you already have a usable system to play with.
Brad |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nobleclem
n00b
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 1:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
thanks for the info... I decided that I might as well install the last 41 packages.. .grrrrrr.... oh well...
So I installed X last night and after like 2 or 3 hrs on that I just went to bed... and found it in the morning waiting for me... weee...
I am putting it on a laptop and I decided that if I move the laptop outta sight well off to the side.. it doesnt bother me as much..
I am continueing with the KDE install and hopefully I have done everything correctly so far... *crosses fingers* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Megaptera
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Posts: 145
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Granted I prolly shouldnt be installing Gentoo because ... well I have never used linux succesfully.... |
Don't get discouraged by past failures, too -- everyone starts learning from somewhere, and the nice thing about Gentoo is that with patience and a little elbow grease, you'll have a system that's easier to use and maintain than, in my opinion, Lindows or Mandrake (or Windows). Because of the robust install guide you noticed and the great forum community which you have obviously found :) , you'll pick up a lot more Linux experience than you're probably expecting.
Also, I hope this isn't too late to be a useful tip, but I usually just emerge kdebase instead of kde -- I don't need stuff like kdeedu, for example, which "emerge kde" pulls in. Anything I find I need I can grab later. Good luck with it all :) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
floam
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 1067
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Make sure you follow the desktop guide or whatever it is called to get x working nicely. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dice
Guru
Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 577
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BonezTheGoon wrote: | | basically to sumarize you get out of it what you put into it. The added time of compiling all of your own OS specifically to be optimized for your needs and your hardware will save you more time in the long run. |
I disagree with this. There's no way you're going to make up the time spent in compiling X/KDE/etc. unless you use the system with the same software versions for years, possibly decades. The issue is not time saved, but customizability, that "my system is working smooooove" feeling, and ease of upgrade. For me those are worth the expense of the time spent compiling packages. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
floam
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 1067
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| It will make up for itself in time. Think of how much time you save with portage versus rpms, and the ease up upgrading as you said. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BonezTheGoon
Bodhisattva
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 1408
Location: Albuquerque, NM -- birthplace of Microsoft and Gentoo
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BonezTheGoon wrote: | basically to sumarize you get out of it what you put into it. The added time of compiling all of your own OS specifically to be optimized for your needs and your hardware will save you more time in the long run.
That's just my opinion though. |
Dice, that's precisely why the next sentance that came out stated it was my opinion. I realize that some people do not use their machines as much as I do -- and maybe they are more patient than I am for the little things like waiting for a window to launch or waiting for your profile to load. I personally have found my system to be so much more responsive than when I had used Debian, Mandrake and SuSE that I am certain if I added up the time I have saved not waiting for all those split seconds (all added up together mind you) would total much more than the roughly twenty-four hours of build time I invested in my system when I got it running. Again your milage may vary greatly depending on hardware, CFLAGS, USE flags, application set, and patience level. You do have very valid points though, we just seem to have different opinions on time saved and how it got saved. I fully agree that time saved is not my biggest priority in using Gentoo. Like you the ability to make it what I need with no less and no more has driven my passion for using a Gentoo system and has given me the courage to push myself out of my comfort zone and learn things I needed to just to run my computer.
nobleclem I'm glad to see you are going to rough it out a while longer. As I stated before if you truly do not enjoy Gentoo I wish you well and hope you find something that does agree with you. But I am very glad that you are going to see this install through to the end so that you can at least actually taste the fruits of your labor during the installation process. I feel once you have completed it once you will feel more empowered to do so again. As for which window managers can be used that compile much more quickly than KDE, any thing other than KDE compiles more quickly (last I knew) -- including Gnome. If that information is still correct Gnome is the next longest though. Enlightenment and Fluxbox (well any *box actually) are very popular window managers that are often times run without a desktop manager, which can cause culture shock for a person trying to get of the Microsoft needle. I usually tell Microsoft junkies that are trying to dry out to use either KDE or Gnome until they are feeling adventurous -- then I encourage them to try every window manager they hear about. I finally found the one I love, and boy do I love it! Some people find they truly love either KDE or Gnome after trying everything else -- that's one thing I love about Gentoo! You get to choose! Anyway I am mummbling again. Time to stuff a sock in it . . .
mmphmm-mmph-mm--nphg (Regards - said with a sock in my mouth),
BonezTheGoon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dice
Guru
Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 577
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 3:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BonezTheGoon wrote: | | Dice, that's precisely why the next sentance that came out stated it was my opinion. I realize that some people do not use their machines as much as I do -- and maybe they are more patient than I am for the little things like waiting for a window to launch or waiting for your profile to load. I personally have found my system to be so much more responsive than when I had used Debian, Mandrake and SuSE that I am certain if I added up the time I have saved not waiting for all those split seconds (all added up together mind you) would total much more than the roughly twenty-four hours of build time I invested in my system when I got it running. Again your milage may vary greatly depending on hardware, CFLAGS, USE flags, application set, and patience level. You do have very valid points though, we just seem to have different opinions on time saved and how it got saved. I fully agree that time saved is not my biggest priority in using Gentoo. Like you the ability to make it what I need with no less and no more has driven my passion for using a Gentoo system and has given me the courage to push myself out of my comfort zone and learn things I needed to just to run my computer. |
Okay, let's run some numbers 
You say it took you 24 hours to install, that's 86,400 seconds. Compare with maybe an hour to install a binary distro, that's 3600 seconds or a difference of 82,800 seconds. Figure you save, on average, one second in load time for your typical app and that you load a new app once every half hour. That would mean that you would need 414,000 hours, or 47 years, to make up the time that you lost in compiling from source. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shaggyafterjack
n00b
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 12
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 3:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I tried installing everything from packages if possible. I see no reason to live on the cutting edge. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jerome187
Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 584
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 4:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
16 hours?! that is 
i musta spent at least a week to get it workin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nobleclem
n00b
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 5:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oh beleive me ... I am nowhere near done...
I am STILL installing KDE.... I started about oh noon and its midnight ...minnus the coupla cool down hours I needed because I was looking at the computer the whole time while using my other one... and I havnt caught where the install is at at the time... so I am going to let it run overnight AGAIN and try to continue in the morning... weeeee
I just hope most of what I have done is working... at least I know the network card works LOL....
I know I already have questions about things but I dont want to ask them until I get the installation completed... like my wireless card ... I will need some further help on configuring it... just because my schools network requires the ESSID to be defined since it doesnt broadcast the network name. Oh well done blabbing for now... oh one more question How do I get a list and description of the different packages?
IE programs, GUIs, etc... if you are saying I should try different ones that would be great... and also if I install somthing is there an easy way to remove it?
Oh and good suggestions on books to get to help with the learning curve... I know I could be spending much time spaming the forums with my questions...
Thanks for the kick in the butt guys.. that and I do get discouraged and hte portagae thing was somthing that was VERY appealing in my desicion...
/me crosses fingers and prays things actually work when all said and done.
If this does work and I figure out Gentoo better I want to convert my desktop to it also... and Does Gentoo support NTFS (WinXP). I know there is a ntfs-linux driver on sourceforge if it doesnt ... all I would do is copy stuff to my linux drive and then reformat the other one...
So I guess I wasnt done rambling ... see what I mean about me writing a novel on here... w00t |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evangelion
Veteran
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 1087
Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 8:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dice wrote: |
Okay, let's run some numbers
You say it took you 24 hours to install, that's 86,400 seconds. Compare with maybe an hour to install a binary distro, that's 3600 seconds or a difference of 82,800 seconds. Figure you save, on average, one second in load time for your typical app and that you load a new app once every half hour. That would mean that you would need 414,000 hours, or 47 years, to make up the time that you lost in compiling from source. |
Comparison is not valid, since large part of the compile-time would be time that would would not be using the computer regardless. When I do big compiles, I left it running for the night. Since I'm sleeping while it compiles, I don't lose any productive time. If it's still compiling in the morning, no problem. I'll just leave it compiling and head to work. So the computer has about 16-17 hours of compile-time which would NOT reduce my productivity in any shape or form!
So in your 24 hours example, I would be twiddling my thumbs for 24-17=7 hours. Hardly a problem for me, I can go without a computer for 7 hours.
_________________
My tech-blog | My other blog
Last edited by Evangelion on Wed May 14, 2003 8:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evangelion
Veteran
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 1087
Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yet another "KDE takes a long time to compile!"-thead? Yes it does take a long time, it's a big system. And there is a way to cut down the compile-time in half. Something about "enable-final" or something.
Couldn't we _finally_ get a stickified thread where we could discuss KDE's compile-times?
_________________
My tech-blog | My other blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'd just like to add my 0.02c for why nobleclem should stick it out; as somebody pointed out you will learn a *lot* about GNU/Linux by using Gentoo.
Mandrake et al put on kid gloves so you don't get overwhelmed by the architecture of a typical Linux system. The problem is, though, that when Mandrake goes missing, those kid gloves mean you're stuck.
Gentoo, somewhat like Debian but in a gentler manner, takes you through the important steps so you know what is where and how it got there. You learn the basics so that in the event of a problem, you've got a little know-how to fall back on. Couple that with amazingly friendly forums (if the answer isn't already there, ask and it shortly will be) and an often very helpful irc channel or 2, and you're onto a winner.
Stick with it and once you're up and running for the first time, you won't look back.
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bos_mindwarp
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 275
Location: stockholm, sweden
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Follow the installation guide, and after reboot do 'emerge xfree'
i set my USE flgs to include: "-gnome -arts -kde -qt" and emerge fluxbox, xmms, nvidia drivers and phoenix-bin
I start X and have fun, and start emerging kde in the background. Since I have fluxbox and browser and whatnot I don't really miss kde so I don't mind that it's compiling for hours.
If you on the other hand are emerging kde and staring at the text console, I understand it might be a drag =) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mpsii
l33t
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 658
Location: Jackson, TN
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 1:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I got my P233MMX installed and configured in a week... No KDE though, shyeah, like I would wait for KDE to compile on a P233MMX...
http://mpsii.blogspot.com
_________________
-----------------------------------------
Michael |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Blahbbs
n00b
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 42
|
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here's what I did the last time I built Gentoo:
After the stage3 install (no X yet), I emerged distcc (distributed GCC compiler) and set up make.conf to use it when compiling.
Next, I booted up a second PC that normally runs Win2K with the Knoppix Linux-On-A-CD distro (Very cool, by the way). It includes a distcc daemon, so I ran it on the Knoppix box.
Then, I emerged xfree and the other BIG apps. distcc happily split the compile job between the Gentoo box (a 800MHz Duron) and the Normally-Win2k-but-now-booted-with-Knoppix machine (1.4GHz Athlon).
It still takes a while to build, but it builds MUCH quicker. 
Heck, on the new Gentoo Box, you could probably boot the Knoppix CD and set up the chroot environment required for the Gentoo build and build it that way, too. The upside being that you still have a very functional KDE/Linux machine to use while Gentoo is building. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Desktop Environments
