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Bigun
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Deployment Release Reply with quote

This has been a common complaint among gentoo users.

Gentoo is good for bleeding edge software, but when it comes to actual deployment in a business world, it changes too quickly to use.

I wanted to discuss the possibility of adding another architecture class.

We have stable (x86)
and Unstable (~x86)

Is it possible, or would it even be worth it to add a third class: deployment

Some class that won't push out updates near as often, something not bleeding edge, but keeps up enough to not become complacent with dangerous software practices.

I understand this will be a *LOT* more work, but understand this potentially opens up Gentoo to a whole new class of use. And eventually will lead to more users, and hopefully developers, maintainers, etc.

Or would it be worth it?

Discuss.


Last edited by Bigun on Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hamsterkill
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it sounds like what you're looking for is something along the lines of an actual "release" along the lines of how Ubuntu, Debian, and Fedora do things?

Is your reason for wanting this the fact that Gentoo updates sporadically have blockers? I guess what I mean is, you need to clarify what it is about stable (x86) that is the problem in this context. What is the difference you expect between x86 and deployment?
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you deploy a Windows server, you pretty much deploy it and let it go. Mostly the same with Red Hat.

Why not something similair with Gentoo?

I know about 90% of you turn your nose up at the above two OS's (me included), but you cannot deny that they remain to be not nearly half the maintenance of running gentoo with the x86 arch... and heaven help you if you put a deployment server on ~x86.

I don't believe that running stable, cutting edge software is what Gentoo is all about. I believe Gentoo is about customization, and should be less about maintenance. I think this may open the door for a whole new outlet of users.

*EDIT*

I re-read your post. Yes, another release similair to Red Hat or Fedora.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one problem with such a release system and its support was, and is, manpower.
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Carlo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you basically ask for good and dead old GLEP 19. Yes, theoretically it is possible, you can take a snapshot of the tree, keep it stable and backport fixes in public available repository, at any time. No, practically we hardly can attract enough capable developers to keep the growing repository as is, so from my point of view it is very unlikely to see a "superstable" tree happen.
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carlo wrote:
I think you basically ask for good and dead old GLEP 19. Yes, theoretically it is possible, you can take a snapshot of the tree, keep it stable and backport fixes in public available repository, at any time. No, practically we hardly can attract enough capable developers to keep the growing repository as is, so from my point of view it is very unlikely to see a "superstable" tree happen.


Forgive me, but is there some reading where one can learn to be a dev?
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NathanZachary
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
If you deploy a Windows server, you pretty much deploy it and let it go. Mostly the same with Red Hat.

Why not something similair with Gentoo?

I know about 90% of you turn your nose up at the above two OS's (me included), but you cannot deny that they remain to be not nearly half the maintenance of running gentoo with the x86 arch... and heaven help you if you put a deployment server on ~x86.

I don't believe that running stable, cutting edge software is what Gentoo is all about. I believe Gentoo is about customization, and should be less about maintenance. I think this may open the door for a whole new outlet of users.

*EDIT*

I re-read your post. Yes, another release similair to Red Hat or Fedora.


I think that Gentoo runs really nicely on servers, but if you disagree, there are other distributions that might better serve your needs. You might want to look at CentOS (which is the "hyperstable" to which you were referring).
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Carlo
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
Forgive me, but is there some reading where one can learn to be a dev?

The Gentoo Developer Handbook isn't a bad start.
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baigsabeeh
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is one area where I thin Gentoo has a lot of work to do. Consider the BSDs, particularly FreeBSD. If a particular software isn't rock-solid stable, then it won't be added to ports. You won't find it's packages online, either. You might find it in the experimental tree, but that's about it. Why does Gentoo have an unstable branch? The way that FreeBSD does it allows users to use one branch for everything without having to harden or block certain versions of packages, etc. I've always considered an operating system as sound and accurate software that allows you to do whatever you want. Gentoo, and particularly much of Linux, has quite a bit of work to do in that department.
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