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Would you like to see Gentoo branding in your favorite applications? Would you want that option on or off by default?
Yes, I would like to see Gentoo branding in my applications. I prefer the feature to be on by default.
19%
 19%  [ 47 ]
Yes, I would like to see Gentoo branding in my applications. I prefer the feature to be off by default.
44%
 44%  [ 108 ]
No, there's no need for Gentoo branding in my applications. In any case, if it gets implemented, I prefer the feature to be on by default.
1%
 1%  [ 4 ]
No, there's no need for Gentoo branding in my applications. In any case, if it gets implemented, I prefer the feature to be off by default.
26%
 26%  [ 64 ]
I refuse the idea of branding altogether.
7%
 7%  [ 17 ]
I have something else to say. (Post comments below)
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 241

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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like 'branding' at all.

I want to use KDE and not some chimaera.

I want to use firefox (ok, I don't want to, but I have to sometimes), and I want it as close as possible to the 'real' one.

Some distros change the software in ways, that they don't bear any resemblance with the stuff released by upstream. And that sucks. With each change, something is introduced that make 'generic' instructions/themes/whatever harder to apply. And at the end, it is like (k)ubuntu, who are crippling apps and turn them into something else.

Please, don't let that happen. Branding is evil (it was evil with RedHATs 'lets turn KDE into a bad gnome clone' bluecurve branding, it is evil with kubuntu, it will be evil in the feature). If someone really wants to have 'branding' - fine. But let them jump to loops to get it, and not force the 'vanilla' users jump to loops to get rid of it.

IMHO branding is very close to disrespecting upstream... and that is the last thing I want.
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timeBandit
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted "no and no" because I differentiate the applications from the platform. My bootsplash has a Gentoo theme, GDM has a Gentoo theme--and that's where it ends. I admit that I formed this position in part because Gentoo artwork has been spotty, though much improved lately. For instance, I use the bubble icons sparingly--they're pretty, but as UI elements they're dreadful at small sizes (too hard to differentiate). The 2006.1 LiveCD color scheme is somewhat putrid, yet many older splash screens are quite nice (I especially liked the 2005 series).

I have no objection to theming a default desktop to look Gentoo-ish, but branding all the little pieces rapidly leads to something like Sun's Java Desktop System, which almost completely hides that it's composed of things I already know. It always feels just slightly unfamiliar because all the apps are heavily rebranded. :?

Uniquely for Gentoo, I think branding creates a bit of a no-win image conflict. Say you develop a beautiful brand and build the LiveCD system with it. A new user builds a system from scratch from that, but branding is off by default--oops: "why doesn't my new system look like the one on the CD?!" To address that, you'd have to turn on branding by default--oops, now you've startled the current users: "why does Firefox look so different after a minor update OMG WTF BBQ?!"

Appearance options shouldn't go further than themes and artwork. Recompiling/reinstalling to change visual elements is evil. :evil:
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nesl247
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see the issue here. Every application that the maintainer wants to gentooize should do so. I find the lack of support from some users who pretty wierd.. If it's off by default, and enabled only through a USE flag, just don't enable it, you'll have nothing to worry about..
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Xake
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nesl247 wrote:
I don't see the issue here. Every application that the maintainer wants to gentooize should do so. I find the lack of support from some users who pretty wierd.. If it's off by default, and enabled only through a USE flag, just don't enable it, you'll have nothing to worry about..


Second that.
For me this thread is more about if we should have a persistant gentoo-theme for all branding or just what our devs think is nice for just their apps.
And IF you don't want it disable it. Hell, if you want your icons to be Gentooish and not your controls we got gnome-theme-manager and I THINK KDE has something alike for it's DE as all else DEs I have tested.

And what about the whineing that devs should do better stuff? Ever heard of how five minutes solitary or a comic can rest your brain that much that you work much more efficiency afterwards? I don't think the devs enabling branding does take SO much time from fiddling with other gentooish things for branding apps, just taking more time from reading online-comics and alike to rest their brains. And I think it can motivate them to lay more work at gentoo at large.

After reading this thread I am sorry to say that I think you made a mistake, Deathwing. As devs already implement branding the poll should be about if we want a persistant branding for all of Gentoo or as now: the branded splash for OpenOffice could look way off compared to the branded splash for a certain DE and so on.
After all: it is up to you devs if you want to branding things (and it seems like many of you wants to) and up to us users to choose if we want to use this branding for:
(a) all our apps,
(b) some of our apps or
(c) none at all.
WE got the power to choose between ALL THREE alternatives.
You got the the right to if you want to make them all possible.

I think you devs all do a great work and I think you should do whatever you want with your apps.
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Deathwing00
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In reply to the above post, I also needed to know if there would be users using it or not. Thus the extra options in the poll.
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Xake
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deathwing00 wrote:
In reply to the above post, I also needed to know if there would be users using it or not. Thus the extra options in the poll.


If it becomes a nice theme I will!;)
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christel
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see a few people comment as to how they feel this would be a waste of time and that people should use their time differently, I'd just like to point out that more likely than not this will allow people to contribute on something they can do and not eat into development time elsewhere, iow, allow more/new people to contribute. And surely, that's a good thing?

As for the yay/nay thing, I am not particularly bothered but I'd vote for off by default if implemented.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Idea!!!
OO 1.2 emerge yesterday and not only was I plesantly supprised in the extreamly fast starttime, but it is gentoo-branded!!! love it!

off by default or on by default, either way the relevant USE flag will be added to my make.conf
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nesl247 wrote:
I don't see the issue here. Every application that the maintainer wants to gentooize should do so. I find the lack of support from some users who pretty wierd.. If it's off by default, and enabled only through a USE flag, just don't enable it, you'll have nothing to worry about..

Thirding that.

Wasn't someone making an icon theme called lila or something like that?
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RoundsToZero
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of a new USE flag, maybe a new BRANDING flag:
Code:

BRANDING="vanilla gentoo gentoo-alternate"

Although at that point maybe "theming" is a better word. Branding is an all-or-nothing thing. Either the package is Gentoo-branded or it's not. On the other hand, a lot of discussion in this thread is talking about color choices and artwork. There may be more than one of these in the future, so a separate variable would be better.

In any case I don't think the branding is really needed, but it would give more people an opportunity to contribute. I would like it off by default. The thing is, most big applications that lots of people use are already themable without a USE flag or compile options. Why couldn't people create Gentoo-branded themes for these applications and put them on KDE look or equivalent? Maybe set up a Gentoo repository for them if we want to go that far?
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Deathwing00
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're evaluating our choices. The purpose of this poll was to check whether there was acceptance or not. Looks like it does. I'll close the poll.

Comments and contributions are still welcome. We'll keep you updated! :)
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juniper
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it appears the polls have closed so i will just post.

i am for branding, turn it off by default and have a "branding" use flag.

I don't see what the controversy is (maybe there isn't any). this way people who want can have it and vice versa.
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metwo
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, no no. Personally I like that gentoo is as close to upstream as possiible, without branding. It's one of the things that first brought me to gentoo.

I personally hate the branding that ubuntu/suse etc put into kde in particular.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

metwo wrote:
No, no no. Personally I like that gentoo is as close to upstream as possiible, without branding. It's one of the things that first brought me to gentoo.

I personally hate the branding that ubuntu/suse etc put into kde in particular.


hence the suggestion that the "branding" use flag be turned off by default.
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Xake
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
I don't see what the controversy is (maybe there isn't any).


As far as I can see there is none.
I think people sometimes forgot that even if it goes close to upstream gentoo is its own distribution.
That includes it's own defaults.
And since it is source based it makes it possible for us to choose our own defaults. (Hey, USE-flags and insane CFLAGS in make.conf anyone)
And sometime they seems to forget that the only choices we have is the ones the devs let us have.
Some of these choices we can argue about and some are very reasonable (most of the time the devs have a proper explenation why they have made things their way).
And if we do not like the defaults we can always play with our own overlay.

For me branding is only the devs giving me the choice if I like to have things branded with the gentoo-logo to show people what distrubution I use.
What's wrong with that?

If the branding will be most utterly bugging/ugly/just-devil I will turn it of for the offending package. No big deal.
ONLY other reason I can see for people having something against branding is people trying too fool others into makeing them think the computer-admin has by hand compiled every package on the computer themselfes and for those there is still the coice of NOT turning on the flag.

All this "Nooo, not by any chance. It will kill my grandma. And my dogs. And maybe my neighbours little cute rabbit, but I am not sure about that one".
I will only call this whining from those who just forgets what Gentoo is all about:
Choices.

As long as the devs do not take away my choices I feel they can do alot without me bothering too much.
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gimpel
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Do we need a fresh Gentoo branding? Reply with quote

http://gentoo-portage.com/x11-wm/compiz 8O

Is it just me who thinks that a screenshot of compiz with a debian logo wallpaper, running on an ubuntu desktop, does somewhat not fit on gentoo-portage.com?

That makes me think, that we could also need some freshening up for our branding, e.g. a nice gentoo button for default Gnome menu and things like that.

First attempts: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-523351.html - though some might think that lila as color is a bit girl'ish.
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AllenJB
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gentoo-portage.com is not an official site (as it states in its footer), so Gentoo has no control over its content.
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gimpel
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllenJB wrote:
gentoo-portage.com is not an official site (as it states in its footer), so Gentoo has no control over its content.

Right. I didn't mean it like a "please remove this" or something. But I was wondering about it, as it seems that screenshots there are user contributed, and well, what's an ubuntu screenshot doing there?

Let's forget about the wallpaper and the ubuntu screenshot there...

The point is, that if you install let's say Gnome or KDE and do a screenshot right afterwards, nobody will see that it's a Gentoo box. And I though it would be cool if it were like that. Almost any distribution comes with some default "here we are" look and feel when you fire up the desktop with default settings. Gentoo misses that somehow.
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BlackEdder
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set branding as a useflag and you will het some gentoo specific artwork.

Quote:
$ grep branding /usr/portage/profiles/use.*
/usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc:app-office/openoffice:branding - Enable Gentoo branded splash screen
/usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc:dev-util/eclipse-sdk:branding - Enable Gentoo branded splash screen
/usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc:gnome-base/gdm:branding - Enable a custom gentoo branded artwork
/usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc:gnome-base/gnome-session:branding - Enable a custom gentoo branded splashscreen
/usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc:x11-misc/xscreensaver:branding - Enable Gentoo branded Lock Screen window
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AllenJB
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's several gentoo artwork packages you can install if you want Gentoo branding. Personally I suspect most Gentoo users aren't that bothered. These packages include:

gentoo-artwork
gentoo-artwork-livecd (in wolf32o2's overlay)
gentoo-xcursors
splash-themes-gentoo

Gentoo doesn't and, in my opinion, shouldn't install any of these packages by default or mess with the users settings when they install these packages.

Ubuntu is a "newbie" distro. It's designed so that users don't have to touch configuration options. Gentoo on the other hand is a distro that is basically designed with more experienced users in mind and is all about control - that is, letting the administrator set their system up how they like it and not have packages change settings (without good reason) and without notifying the user (via the config management tools).

Because of this, and the fact that Gentoo is a source based distro, the developers and package maintainers will tend to leave all settings as the upstream developers set them - this makes life easier on both the users (by maintaining their settings) and the developers (because they don't have to fiddle with config files during package installation or removal).
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theneb
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd certainly echo opinions within this thread already, whilst distro's such as Ubuntu have very nice artwork. You have to consider Gentoo's real audience and that is the sysadmins, personally I deploy Gentoo on all my servers and on any public pc's I need to lockdown.

Since portage gives me a lot of control over it all, it would be nice to have better branding throughout and a fresh look but that just depends if anyone arty wants to take the challenge and contribute.
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

merged above six posts here.
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gimpel
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whoops. sorry for not seeing this one, and thx for merging.
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defenderBG
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so... what happened???

i am not the best of artist, but still i would like to comtribute, and since programming is not something i want to do, means that this is one of the few places left ;)
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muaddib
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My vote wrote:
No, there's no need for Gentoo branding in my applications. In any case, if it gets implemented, I prefer the feature to be off by default.


I don't like this branding idea.
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