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EmperorofUnivrse
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Gentoo on Playstation 3 Reply with quote

I don't know if you've heard, but Linux is supposed to be shipped with the PS3 (or at least the deluxe edition, I am not sure), including a compiler for the Cell Processor. I can't wait to get my hands on one of those and get portage running.

I really doubt they will, but it would be very cool if they provided 3d drivers for us to use :) I'd love to eventually get wine up and run Warcraft 3 on this incredible machine. Even if they don't, it will still be a kickass machine.

Thoughts? Who wants to organize a gentoo-on-PS3 when it comes out?
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sageman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, this was just mentioned in the Gentoo Weekly Newsletter (make sure you subscribe!) sent out today! They are working on porting to the Cell processor. Below is the blurp from GWN:

Quote:


Gentoo/PowerPC CELL effort
--------------------------

Gentoo is the first community Linux distribution to actively work on
supporting the new CELL processor IBM has launched with Sony and
Toshiba.
This processor is used in the PlayStation 3, and in a number of other
products. The CELL processor has a general purpose PowerPC core which
runs
at 3.2 GHz. It also has eight special purpose cores, which are
basically
cache-less processors that are great for processing streams and
parallel
work. The CELL is also called a 'broadband engine' and has a peak
bandwidth of 204.8 GB/sec for intra-chip transfers (between cores,
memory
and I/O controllers). More information about the CELL can be found at
IBM
DeveloperWorks[3].

3. http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-cellperf

Luca Barbato[4] has made available a Gentoo ebuild for a CELL
simulator.
This IBM CELL SDK simulates a dual CELL machine (18 cores) on a PowerPC
machine. He has also made a CELL optimized Gentoo (crossdev) toolchain
and
Gentoo system image for the CELL. You can find more information in
Luca's
overlay[5].

4. lu_zero@gentoo.org
5. http://overlays.gentoo.org/dev/lu_zero

Gentoo would be the first community distribution to support this new
PowerPC processor. Gentoo/PowerPC is a bleeding edge PowerPC Linux
distribution with a bright future. Continued efforts such as these will
ensure that Gentoo is ready for tomorrow's processors, as well as
improve
its reputation as a world-class distribution.

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EmperorofUnivrse
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This would be such a sweet system.

I'd love it if there were graphics support and a way to upgrade the system memory. I don't think it's likely we'll get either, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Even still, I'd have to use qemu to run anything x86.

This is entirely wishful thinking but wouldn't it be cool to use qemu to run older Windows games under Wine/Cedega! Right now I'm really excited about the Cell, and I'm itching for a Conroe as well. What a great time for processors!
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sageman
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know tons about Qemu, but I do know that it is *very* doubtful to get Wine working, since there is some x86-architecture-specific assembly code in Wine (hence why there are no ports for anything but x86).

On a related note, the Cedega team just released "Cider", a version of Cedega for x86 Macs that runs in OS X.
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Redhatter
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's also worth noting that 99% of software written for Win32, is written for the i386 port of Win32.

There was some software written for Win32/Alpha... PuTTY being a notable example.
I've got some apps written for Win32/MIPS (Windows CE 2.11) on my PDA... these are hard to come by.
There's also a PowerPC port of Windows... but none of your big desktop games/apps were ported to it.

Thus... WINE only supports x86... as that's all the Windows community supports.
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dancingmonkey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been pessimistic about this before, but how much software is expected to be able to or even be re-written to take advantage of the way the cell works.
That is to say as how I understand it, the cell wont be able to take advantage of programs that simply split a thread off, being the main 'intructor' core has to manage passing work to the other cores.
Im sure that a library will be able to wrap most of this up, but a lot of applications will have to be re-written to take advantage of this, right?
Wont the ones that dont use this library and are just simply compiled so that they just use the main core not suffer quite a bit of a performance hit when other applications are using this main core to direct their work?
Im sure theres certainly enough power behind all of it to get any work done decently, Im just skeptical about how much power is going to be available in a linux operating system environment.
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tcx
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, after reading the wikipedia page on the cell processor, namely this and this, I have to say I do believe we are going to have cell specific code on many GNU stuff and in the linux kernel.
According to the info mentioned on the wikipedia, IBM is going to have servers with cell processors running linux. They are already helping some developer teams to make things work with the cell, not just on the cell.
I think this will come out well.
I think the IBM needs the opensource community to work with them. They have lost their contract with Apple. They need to sell their new product. They need this fast-moving fast-developing community to make their tools 100% available to cell powered machines and using 100% of the cell's features.
I think the playstation 3 is a good promise of a linux machine. This is more of a hope than of an opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.
Perfection would be if Sony would release some Vaio with cells running Linux or if some of the cell IBM machines would be affordable.
Ok, this is a REAL dream...
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moskvax
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be very eager to take part in a project porting Gentoo to PS3, if it turns out that Sony really has made the console open enough for people to run anything they like on it without much hassle (the way they're treating PSP homebrew developers makes their promises of openness dubious). This project could realise the dream of the PS3 being a cheap PC rather than an expensive console, and what's more, a cheap PC which people have no choice but to run Linux on :wink:.
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saty
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like others are faster...

* Doggy *


Looks promising... and they use E17. :D
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tokka
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moskvax wrote:
if it turns out that Sony really has made the console open enough for people to run anything they like on it without much hassle (the way they're treating PSP homebrew developers makes their promises of openness dubious).


The early days of the PS2 scene was a different matter, with SCE staff openly helping out on homebrew irc channels, and one of the leading lights of the PS2 homebrew scene was interviewed for a job at SCEA...

SCE have been pretty open that they want a development environment available, though little info has been seen outside the Japanese press, so I've been expecting the press release for the last few days.

A couple of things...
I've been told there will be an install cd image initially available via www.ydl.net for subscribers - the concept of bootable cd's and a PS3 make zero sense so I assume there will be some kind of downloadable loader - though Terra soft are staying stum for now:)

In the press release I received and was posted to their mailing list (http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/2006-October/020714.html), it says GCC 3.4.4, whcih would be an odd thing to do, but the press release on their website (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/news/2006/2006-10-17.shtml) says 4.1.1.

It's looking good for having a full install of Gentoo 2006.1 on the PS3:)
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tokka
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A coule more things...

Digging through screenshots on a Japanese website last night, I stumbled over the option in the PS3 system menu - "install other system". So I guess that takes care of the issues of a bootable distribution.

In an inteview with one of the ydl peeps on Ars Technica:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/columns/linux/linux-20061018.ars

"Our work with Sony has granted us a unique opportunity to have in our possession beta PlayStation units (the same that the game developers have used) in order to work closely with the system to ensure a high quality end-user experience, from bootloader to halt, from installation to playing CDs and configuring the desktop."

So looks like we have access to the optical drive:)
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brewin
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Docs released Reply with quote

Linux kernel patches, a bootloader, and some pretty in-depth documentation for Linux on the PS3 was just released.

The docs tell exactly what works and what doesn't yet. Of particular interest is this part in LinuxKernelOverview.html:

Quote:
Graphics/Video

PS3 has a powerful graphic processing unit with high speed host connection. The GPU is connected to both HDMI and AV multi interface. Although the GPU is connected directly to CBE, no direct access by guest OSes to the GPU is allowed currently. Video mode/format setting is also the role of AV setting driver. PS3 Linux fb driver calls AV setting driver to setup video modes.

Currently X server uses virtual frame buffer to render its image. No hardware acceleration is supported under Linux. See the description above section.


Hopefully, "currently" is the keyword and hardware acceleration is in the works.

Here's the link. I think you can also get the docs with an emerge app-misc/ps3-docs thanks to lu_zero.

If it does turn out that the PS3 can be used as a cheap cell-based desktop computer (and is somewhat upgradeable), then maybe $600+ isn't too unreasonable.
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drdope
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: Docs released Reply with quote

brewin wrote:
If it does turn out that the PS3 can be used as a cheap cell-based desktop computer (and is somewhat upgradeable), then maybe $600+ isn't too unreasonable.


I would surely make a very nice HTPC/AV-Streaming Client...
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thepustule
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dancingmonkey wrote:
I've been pessimistic about this before, but how much software is expected to be able to or even be re-written to take advantage of the way the cell works.


Well, I'd have to say that ffmpeg/transcode/mplayer/mencoder/x264/vlc would be enough for me. If we had those apps converted to actually use the Cell SPEs properly, there'd be a lightning fast video transcoder/converter to put to work.
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whitesanjuro
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:07 am    Post subject: working on it Reply with quote

there is a newer thread on this topic for those still interested: check it out - i got my ps3 and am working on getting gentoo going right now :)
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