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What do you think about these suggestions?
I love them and I would like to help developing!
20%
 20%  [ 7 ]
I like them.
44%
 44%  [ 15 ]
They aren't important.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
I don't like them.
14%
 14%  [ 5 ]
They are stupid. Stop giving useless suggestions.
20%
 20%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 34

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Kanniball
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+ portage needs *BIG* speedup.
--- now portage is still slow, maybe some improvements can be done like eix does, with a better "cache".

+ support for multiple overlays
--- imagine you have 2 or 3 overlays, it would be nice if emerge --sync could update all of them

+ aggregate all dev's and userlays
--- create one overlay where users and dev's can upload their ebuilds. this will help to get new apps on portage in a faster and better way

+ better etc-update
--- this is one of the weakest points in gentoo IMHO, I have those msg's complaining about new confs...
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Cinquero
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:12 pm    Post subject: Security!! Reply with quote

I still don't feel too good about the "each app can access all my files" situation. I think we should really solve that. Maybe by replacing the old user-group-world permission scheme by a user-app-group-world scheme? By default, the app-part would be undefined and ineffective, therefore resembling the old scheme.

In a second step, one could combine that with SELinux policies: if the user executes a binary with the app-part defined, SELinux could automatically switch the app's domain. That way, we could possibly somehow replace the labeling mess in SELinux.

----

Another thing: I recently tried to write a little script that re-emerges all packages which have been emerged using different CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS/CHOST vars than the current ones as defined in make.conf. Unfortunately, that is not possibly because the files in /var/db/pkg do not exactly reflect these variables as defined by make.conf, but as they were set (modified) during the build/setup process. Maybe it would be a good idea to also store compresse make.conf files in /var/db/pkg.

----

Yet another proposal: add a "always/never overwrite" option to etc-update: usually, it is always the same files that one does not want to be overwritten... (store these files' names in /etc/etc-update/always||never) Wildcards support in these files would be great, too: for example to ignore updates to /etc/conf.d.

It seems like there are two groups here: those who want/need to edit config files and those who don't. I still think we should have an automatic configuration mechanism for simple setups at least for the latter group of users: the user should define a package-independent configuration/setup for his machine and the ebuilds should then transform that information into good, reliable and secure config setups. Ebuilds do in some way express knowledge. So I think we should also put the knowledge of correctly (and securely) configuring services there. A simple setup could be, in the first place, a simple client with one NIC, ac97 sound controller, nvidia graphics etc. One could then go on and support more hardware. The extension to other ALSA devices, for example, should be pretty straight-forward: just compare the lspci PCI IDs with the compatibility information stored in the ALSA modules. One could also require DDC functionality to properly detect and optimally setup the monitor. We certainly don't want to support every setup at first.


Last edited by Cinquero on Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:54 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Paapaa
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kanniball wrote:
+ portage needs *BIG* speedup.
+ support for multiple overlays
+ aggregate all dev's and userlays
+ better etc-update


Paludis, "the other package manager", seems to have many interesting features. Hopefully it will be a viable option in the future. But as the webpage says, it is still under heavy development.
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mark_alec
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kanniball wrote:
+ aggregate all dev's and userlays
--- create one overlay where users and dev's can upload their ebuilds. this will help to get new apps on portage in a faster and better way

Check out Project Sunrise.
Kanniball wrote:
+ better etc-update
--- this is one of the weakest points in gentoo IMHO, I have those msg's complaining about new confs...

Try dispatch-conf or cfg-update if you don't like etc-update.
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filterpunk
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark_alec wrote:
Try dispatch-conf or cfg-update if you don't like etc-update.


After having it recommended to me here, I have to agree. dispatch-conf + colordiff + rcs does the trick quite nicely. More readable and if you do clobber something, just hop into /etc/config-archive and grab the previous version to replace it.
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beandog
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

filterpunk wrote:
mark_alec wrote:
Try dispatch-conf or cfg-update if you don't like etc-update.


After having it recommended to me here, I have to agree. dispatch-conf + colordiff + rcs does the trick quite nicely. More readable and if you do clobber something, just hop into /etc/config-archive and grab the previous version to replace it.


Agreed. RCS is a godsend for when you *really* screwed something up. I can't recommend it enough.
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cnistra
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

korg wrote:
* Better (more automated) security patching
I currently use: glsa-check -l 2> /dev/null | grep '\[N\]' | grep -v 'indicates that the system might be affected' which is somewhat ugly.

Code:
glsa-check -vf all   ##fixes all updates for you automatically
glsa-check -t new  ##tells you if there are any new glsa's that could interest you

Which brings me to what I would like to be improved in Gentoo:
The man pages for glsa-check, rc-config and eselect could be improved. glsa-check manpages could have an examples section with explanatory text because there is nothing wrong with being obvious. rc-config man page should reflect the way it is used, I mean replace "eselect rc" with "rc-config" and name section should state rc-config. eselect manpages could emphazise that individual manpages for respective modules can be had by "man module.eselect" not in the passing mention "refer to the manpage module.eselect(5)" in the modules section. The eselect manpage is the worst I've ever seen and I would like it to be rewritten.
[Edit] I posted a bugreport on rc-config bug number 144882.
[Edit2]I would like to soften the statement I did about eselect manpage. Don't want to come off as an ass or idiot and I'm sure there is much worse manpages out there. :wink: Still I think eselect manpage could be more informative and helpfull. It's not like the command is hard to use or anything, the builtin help is good. But I can imagine that anyone that just get the hint to use eselect for this or that, could be bewildered. Maybe he starts with eselect --help then trying variations of that, then to turn to the manpage that doesn't seemingly describe how to do that he specifically want to do.


Last edited by cnistra on Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:20 am; edited 2 times in total
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Genone
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cnistra wrote:
The man pages for glsa-check, rc-config and eselect could be improved.

Patches welcome. (I really hate writing manpages)
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Icer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunno if this has been suggested before but here goes. In the packages.gentoo.org the list of packages on the left side of the page could use a colorcoding or symbol markings to show if the package went stable or if it's in testing etc. Though one would propably need to add the arch keyword too so people know which arch was affected.
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beandog
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Icer wrote:
Dunno if this has been suggested before but here goes. In the packages.gentoo.org the list of packages on the left side of the page could use a colorcoding or symbol markings to show if the package went stable or if it's in testing etc. Though one would propably need to add the arch keyword too so people know which arch was affected.


Eh. I doubt that'd happen. The list on the side is mostly just to show which packages have been updated recently.

If you want, you can pull specific arch + keyword feeds.

http://packages.gentoo.org/feeds/
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thyrihad
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brazzmonkey wrote:
i know sometimes, after a package is installed, portage displays some (useful) info. however when you emerge several packages in a row you can easily miss this feedback. i suppose it'd be a good idea to prompt a summary of this info at the very end of the emerge process. so that you can read it all at once, without missing anything.

(don't know if i made myself clear on that one...)


You need enotice:

http://www.fmp.com/enotice/

Portage has recently added a notice logging subsystem of it's own (elog), but there's no good reader for them as yet, so give enotice a try.
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Gooserider
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:24 am    Post subject: What about a "translation manual" Reply with quote

Another thing that I've run into on occasion is that most of the Paper manuals and guides out there are written for distro's other than Gentoo. Probably RH / Fedora and Debian are the two most common...

The trouble is, many of the books offer useful advice, but the commands they suggest don't work because it seems each distro does it slightly differently. :?

For instance, I was just trying to get printing working and needed to restart the CUPS servers on my Gentoo box and on my Ubuntu box. I was working in part out of O'Reilly pubs "Linux Cookbook" .
They told me that on a Debian box, I should use "/etc/init.d/cupsys [start | stop | restart]" (this worked on my Ubuntu box) ; and on an RH / Fedora box, I should use "/sbin/service/cups [start | stop | restart]".

This was fine, now what do I do on my Gentoo box? First off, neither example worked as given. :( So start digging... After much poking around, I finally find that the command I'm after is ""/etc/init.d/cupsys [start | stop | restart]"

While it would be nice to get publishers to include Gentoo commands in their books, I don't know how easy this would be. Also I have no desire to toss out otherwise useful books I already own.

What would be nice, but I don't know if it exists anywhere, is a "translation table" that would provide a general description of the task, and the commands for Gentoo and other major distros so that if you are familiar with how one distro works you can translate it's commands to Gentoo. (or vice versa, but as Gentoo advocates we don't need to go there... :lol:)

It may already exist, but I haven't found it yet.

Gooserider
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yabbadabbadont
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gooserider: It's good that you are reading up on things, but perhaps you should start with the Gentoo documentation first when working on Gentoo. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/printing-howto.xml#cups

Unforutunately, just about every distro out there handles the files under /etc differently. (especially /etc/init* and /etc/rc*) If they would all just agree to do it the Gentoo way, then the world would be a better place. :D
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Books are biased distro-wise. Problem alot of people seem to have is they don't know the which command, nor locate ;) The Linux Cookbook from No Starch Press (copyrighted and trademarked, I'm sure) seems fairly neutral. Alot of the O'riely books (the Linux Pocket Refrence actually states this on the cover) are biased due to the writters.

Actually, someone should make a list of the handy books/refrences and list out what they are used for...

/me goes off to make a new thread
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Cinquero
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:38 am    Post subject: Portage bugfix responsiveness Reply with quote

Example: there is this known-to-be-buggy alsa-lib-1.0.11 ebuild. alsa-lib-1.0.11-r1 contains a bug fix for that. The first one is marked stable, the second one unstable. Why is that? We know that -r1 contains a fixed critical bug, why not setting it immediately to stable? Why not setting alsa-lib-1.0.11 to unstable even when we know of the bug?

This is an inconsistency that just should not be.
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yabbadabbadont
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: Portage bugfix responsiveness Reply with quote

Cinquero wrote:
Example: there is this known-to-be-buggy alsa-lib-1.0.11 ebuild. alsa-lib-1.0.11-r1 contains a bug fix for that. The first one is marked stable, the second one unstable. Why is that? We know that -r1 contains a fixed critical bug, why not setting it immediately to stable? Why not setting alsa-lib-1.0.11 to unstable even when we know of the bug?

This is an inconsistency that just should not be.

I think you need to emerge --sync. the -r1 release is the current stable version on x86 and amd64. (unless you use a different arch, if so, bug the herd for your arch)

http://packages.gentoo.org/search/?sstring=alsa-lib

Edit: also stable on sparc
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have an good refrences, post it here
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
yabbadabbadont:
Gooserider: It's good that you are reading up on things, but perhaps you should start with the Gentoo documentation first when working on Gentoo. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/printing-howto.xml#cups


I usually do start with the Gentoo Docs, plus looking on the forums (though I don't seem to have much luck, apparently I think funny 8O and come up with search strings that don't bring back the right stuff...) and in the Wiki. Then I'll go to the books, and come back to the forums with my own post if all else fails.

Earlier I said I was working "in part" from the O'Reilly book, but I didn't (and maybe should have, thought I implied it well enough) say that the other part was the Gentoo printing doc you pointed to. Actually NEITHER of those solved my problem in this case. What got me working was a suggestion from the Wiki. (I added to the existing bug that was already filed on the subject, making the same suggestion I did)

Overall, I find O'Reilly books to be among the highest quality out there - As a general rule, IF I'm looking for a paper manual, and I find several books on the same topic by different publishers, I tend to get the O'Reilly title unless I have a specific reason to get something different.

Quote:
Unforutunately, just about every distro out there handles the files under /etc differently. (especially /etc/init* and /etc/rc*) If they would all just agree to do it the Gentoo way, then the world would be a better place.


AGREED!!! :lol: In the meantime, a 'translation guide' would help.

Gooserider
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yabbadabbadont
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gooserider: Just to clarify, I did not intend that as criticism (if you took it that way), but just as a helpful suggestion for a source of information that you may not have seen.
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Cinquero
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QA. kdesktop_lock is broken because of an incompatibility between gcc-3.4.6 and qt-3.3.6 (https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133301). Fortunately, that won't fix because the 3.x gcc series is closed now. And gcc 4+ is unstable in Gentoo.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cinquero wrote:
QA. kdesktop_lock is broken because of an incompatibility between gcc-3.4.6 and qt-3.3.6 (https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133301). Fortunately, that won't fix because the 3.x gcc series is closed now. And gcc 4+ is unstable in Gentoo.


Poor choice of thread? This seems more like a bug-report then a helpful post.
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Cinquero
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is an example. Not being able to lock a KDE desktop using stable packages is something one should think about.

Just my .02$ ...

BTW: there is already a bug report *g*
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ever try xlock?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:01 pm    Post subject: emerge toolchain command Reply with quote

An emerge toolchain command to produce the functionality provided by the scripts discussed here:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-282474-highlight-.html
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: What needs to be improved in Gentoo? Reply with quote

Dralnu wrote:
Ok, we've all seen them. You know, the threads about how Gentoo sucks, and why it sucks, so I'm starting this. If you've got beef with a way something is done, or want to suggest how to improve something, post it. Lets keep it to constructive critism, I have no problem reporting people for trying to start flame wars or trolling. Thank you.


Make the need for a gcc-upgrade HOWTO go away. Whatever needs to be done, should be done when I emerge the new package.

Then make that true for every package. When I update a hundred packages, you can be sure I'm not reading everything that goes by on the screen. That means I miss stuff. That means stuff mysteriously breaks after I emerge updates and etc-update, because I'm not doing enough and DON'T KNOW that I'm not doing enough.

I like it when etc-update says "merging trivial changes." Make *all* /etc updates be trivial changes. ;-)

Bascially what the 3 things above mean, are that I am sometimes scared to update, or find it to be a lot of human (instead of computer) work. That sucks, even if it's my fault.

Make it so that xorg 7.1 isn't masked simply because some driver that I don't use isn't available. I got a Matrox G400MAX in order to *avoid* these (and many other related) problems. So *make* it so that the binary-driver-problem doesn't effect me.

Well, you asked. :-)
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