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Bluemerlin
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theMerge wrote:
Let's just say that the original poster's prediction has taken more than six years to NOT come true. Gentoo will never take over the world, but it probably won't die a horrible death either.

Of course one of the most ironic parts about the whole thing is that this thread has been around for a decent percentage of Gentoo's actual lifetime. Gentoo got it's start in 1999 (under another name) and this thread started in 2006. That means that of the roughly 13 years and change Gentoo has been around this thread has been alive for around 6. That's getting pretty darn close to 50% here.

I realize the thread has evolved a bit over the years, but I thought the irony was worth pointing out.

:D



So here we are another year later.

Not Dead Yet!

:twisted:
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Fitzcarraldo
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bluemerlin wrote:
So here we are another year later.

Not Dead Yet!

:twisted:

Thankfully that's true, although perhaps Gentoo is feeling its years:

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=gentoo%20linux

Actually, on a serious note, I have wondered how the numbers of Gentoo users have changed since it was launched. If I recall correctly, when I first joined these forums back in 2008 clicking on 'View posts from last 24 hours' returned a lot more threads than it does these days. Now, that's only a very rough indication of the popularity of Gentoo, but it does make me wonder how the usage of Gentoo has fared over the years. Does anyone have any rough statistics on the number of installations over the years (or even just at present)? Anyway, Gentoo is the distribution on my main laptop, and I have every intention of installing Gentoo on its replacement.
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Chiitoo
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitzcarraldo wrote:
If I recall correctly, when I first joined these forums back in 2008 clicking on 'View posts from last 24 hours' returned a lot more threads than it does these days.

Perhaps things just work that much more these days? :)

I can't say, for I wandered about only after 2 years from that. Nor can I really compare the now with 2010, or even 2011, 2012, 2013, and surely beyond...
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rudregues
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitzcarraldo wrote:
Bluemerlin wrote:
So here we are another year later.

Not Dead Yet!

:twisted:

Thankfully that's true, although perhaps Gentoo is feeling its years:

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=gentoo%20linux

Actually, on a serious note, I have wondered how the numbers of Gentoo users have changed since it was launched. If I recall correctly, when I first joined these forums back in 2008 clicking on 'View posts from last 24 hours' returned a lot more threads than it does these days. Now, that's only a very rough indication of the popularity of Gentoo, but it does make me wonder how the usage of Gentoo has fared over the years. Does anyone have any rough statistics on the number of installations over the years (or even just at present)? Anyway, Gentoo is the distribution on my main laptop, and I have every intention of installing Gentoo on its replacement.


From what I know, Google Trends is just a relative measure to the total of other terms searched in google on a period. In other words, if there was 15 "gentoo linux" searches on a total of 100 other terms searches the percentage will be 15%. But if gentoo searches was 30 on a total of 1000 other terms searches, the percentage will be 3%. So, the number of "gentoo linux" searches can be shown as a declining curve in google trends, even if it's growing....

Other thing to consider would be the term. In example, in the past was very common people search ubuntu as "ubuntu linux". Nowaday, it's more much more common just search "ubuntu". If you fail to choose the best term for a specific period, you will loss the real number of searches.

And finally, Gentoo is very mature today. From what I see, there's less breakage, 'portage is becoming very smart', we install from stage 3 instead of stage 1 etc. Much more easy to use today and more ready things for the end user. This implies less searches to solve problems, less open threads, less bugs.

If Gentoo is truly stuck, growing or declining in number of users, I really don't know. It's very hard to figure out.
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gotyaoi
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably the people who have the most accurate view of such a thing would be the ones who run the portage mirrors. Traffic stats from those servers over time might be a pretty good metric...
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For one glorious year I lived the illusion to never having to see this thread being active again.

Ok. So post enough crap to get to the 20 page limit fast so it can be locked, yeah? ;)
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do we have a 20 page limit? Is starting a part II allowed? How about a part III? Just gotta keep this alive, you know...
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YPenguin
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:12 pm    Post subject: Developer System Reply with quote

Has anyone stated the idea that Gentoo might have it's place as a Developer OS?

Users with an allergy against source code are unlikely to prefer it, but if you intend
writing something, why not join the competent group?
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
Do we have a 20 page limit? Is starting a part II allowed? How about a part III? Just gotta keep this alive, you know...
The PHP database code begins to slow down if a thread has more than about 800 posts, so, based on current age and post count, we should be good until well into 2022. Whether it's dead or not, I plan to be a Gentoo user then. You?

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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij,

Pappys Seeds is at part 5 the grub sticky is about part X and the limit per part is about 30 pages.

Yamakuzure,

While this thread is alive, so is Gentoo
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
Whether it's dead or not, I plan to be a Gentoo user then. You?


Unsure how a switch from study to work life will affect me. But if I still can, I think I'll keep on trying to do what I do; no promises, as I'm not yet confident I will be able to. But a Gentoo User, very likely; unless I can't even maintain my system anymore, but that would be due to a much bigger life change... What will the future bring? :D
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Yamakuzure,

While this thread is alive, so is Gentoo
Do we really need a "Why gentoo sucks..." thread to prove that we are still here? ;)

Tom, I have a family and a job and am perfectly able to maintain my gentoo boxes. Just find a job where you can work with gentoo and you are all set. :D
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
NeddySeagoon wrote:
Yamakuzure,
While this thread is alive, so is Gentoo
Do we really need a "Why gentoo sucks..." thread to prove that we are still here? ;)

Certainly not.
However, I certainly need you to post there, now, in order, for me, to realize that you are still there, now.
OK... I acknowledge how much the value of such a realization might appear... questionable.
In some way.
I -> -]
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developer1
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice thread and I 100% agree => Gentoo devs thinks they have done / are doing great thing programming Gentoo.

I can claim myself to be experienced pnix user but after Ive installed whats called just another linux, I am somehow twisted: Am I out of my mind, or do we all have selfmates.

What I dislike?

- lack of GUI/TUI based fractaler.
- emerge
- after install, emerge -r takes overnight (just as emerge world)
- kernels noit recognising devices !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- fresh install takes +/- 6 GB of space (even SyA takes less)
- unable to uninstall as there is no sinstall.sh

Just another time-waster for me. I havew nothing against meta-distros like it, but uupgrading overnight its rubbish
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seoneal7
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

developer1 wrote:

Just another time-waster for me. I havew nothing against meta-distros like it, but uupgrading overnight its rubbish


Personally, meta-distros are my favorite distros. Whether Arch, LFS, Debian net-installs, or Gentoo. As for the compiling time.... I assume most folks know what they are getting into when they choose to run Gentoo on their system. If you've gone through the install process, what else could you expect? It's a source based distro. It's not going to download binaries to speed up the process. It's going to emerge. Gentoo has been around for a while, has a reputation, and simply is what it is. And arguably, it does what it does well. You are criticizing Gentoo for being Gentoo...

Or was that sarcasm?
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

developer1 wrote:
- lack of GUI/TUI based fractaler.
Code:
 ~ $ eix -S fractal -c
[N] media-gfx/flam3 (3.0.1): Tools and a library for creating fractal flames
[N] media-gfx/fr0st (~1.4-r1): A fractal flame editor
[N] media-gfx/gnofract4d (3.13): A program for drawing beautiful mathematically-based images known as fractals
[N] media-gfx/mandelbulber (~1.21.1): Tool to render 3D fractals
[N] media-gfx/qosmic (~1.5.0): A cosmic recursive flame fractal editor
[N] media-gfx/quat (1.20): A 3D quaternionic fractal generator
[N] x11-misc/fracplanet (~0.4.0): Fractal planet and terrain generator
[N] x11-misc/fraqtive (~0.4.6): an open source, multi-platform generator of the Mandelbrot family fractals
[N] x11-misc/xaos (3.5-r1): A very fast real-time fractal zoomer
[N] x11-misc/xfractint (20.04_p12): A fractal generator
[N] x11-misc/xmountains (2.9): Fractal terrains of snow-capped mountains near water
Something in there for you?
I hope I didn't misunderstand you, because "Fractaler" is an indie pop band...
developer1 wrote:
- emerge
Then use one of the other two:
Code:
 ~ $ eix -C sys-apps "(paludis|pkgcore)"
* sys-apps/paludis
     Available versions:  ~1.2.0 ~1.4.0 ~1.4.2-r1 {doc pbins pink portage prebuilt-documentation python python-bindings ruby ruby-bindings search-index test vim-syntax visibility xml zsh-completion PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_6 python2_7" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_6 python2_7"}
     Homepage:            http://paludis.exherbo.org/
     Description:         paludis, the other package mangler

* sys-apps/pkgcore
     Available versions:  ~0.8.6 **9999 {build +-doc PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_6 python2_7 python3_2 python3_3"}
     Homepage:            http://pkgcore.googlecode.com/
     Description:         pkgcore package manager
developer1 wrote:
- after install, emerge -r takes overnight (just as emerge world)
This depends on your hardware, memory, setup. And it is a good idea to install from a *recent* medium (System Rescue CD is always a good starter) and really install a recent stage3 build.
developer1 wrote:
- kernels noit recognising devices !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No matter how many exclamation marks you write, this is entirely your fault! :D (But the Kernel Seeds can help you there...)
developer1 wrote:
- fresh install takes +/- 6 GB of space (even SyA takes less)
fresh install of what? The bootable system takes only 1 - 1.5 GB max.
developer1 wrote:
- unable to uninstall as there is no sinstall.sh
Uninstall of what? gentoo? That's easy, just format the drive. :D Otherwise we have a clear misunderstanding here what Gentoo is and what not. It is not a program you can uninstall. It is your system. So it uninstalls like any other OS.
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seoneal7 wrote:
developer1 wrote:

Just another time-waster for me. I havew nothing against meta-distros like it, but uupgrading overnight its rubbish
You are criticizing Gentoo for being Gentoo...
Or was that sarcasm?

Hmmm... sarcasm for sure... But I am afraid the sarcasm is... elsewhere.

I would absolutely agree that someone needing 22hours to build libreoffice on a core i7 8O , fighting with emerge -i 8O , looking for his way thanks to emerge -reconf -f -q 8O ...
is entitled to criticize the distribution his system is running.
Hmmm... :?
But... honestly... can this be a Gentoo ?
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

developer1 wrote:
... Ive installed whats called just another linux, ...
Actually, it's not called that.
Gentoo Linux About page wrote:
... Because of its near-unlimited adaptability, we call Gentoo a metadistribution.
A source-based metadistribution has its strengths ("near-unlimited adaptability") and its costs (you've got to learn to adapt it and you have to put up with the compile time). If you tried to recompile Debian or Ubuntu from scratch, you'd have a lot more trouble that you do with Gentoo. Seems like a case of unrealistic expectations to me. Gentoo has never, ever tried to be "just another Linux".

- John
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Last edited by John R. Graham on Mon May 05, 2014 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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seoneal7
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aCOSwt wrote:
seoneal7 wrote:
developer1 wrote:

Just another time-waster for me. I havew nothing against meta-distros like it, but uupgrading overnight its rubbish
You are criticizing Gentoo for being Gentoo...
Or was that sarcasm?

Hmmm... sarcasm for sure... But I am afraid the sarcasm is... elsewhere.

I would absolutely agree that someone needing 22hours to build libreoffice on a core i7 8O , fighting with emerge -i 8O , looking for his way thanks to emerge -reconf -f -q 8O ...
is entitled to criticize the distribution his system is running.
Hmmm... :?
But... honestly... can this be a Gentoo ?


Ahh. Apologies. Wasn't paying proper attention to details. Or I'm confused. Either way. :P

Been up for about thirty hours, methinks. Doing an LFS/BLFS.
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developer1
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all seems not to get the point..... I do (and will) not criticise Gentoo (or any other distro) for being meta distro. If one likes it than ok, its freedom of choice.
I just wonder - why would one choose to be with meta-distro and go through all these steps of making program usable every time one wants to install new software....... its unimaginable for me. I prefer binary distro where I just download things...... I can compile sth still from time to time, but not always.....
Also I prefer nice, graphical (or at least semi graphical) installer (as in binary distros).
Generally, binary distros look nicer, requires much less time to operate and requires much less knowledge then Gentoo - I have nothing against getting to know new things but Gentoo (for me) is the most difficult distro ever (far more difficult than LFS even)......
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

developer1 wrote:
You all seems not to get the point..... I do (and will) not criticise Gentoo (or any other distro) for being meta distro. If one likes it than ok, its freedom of choice.
I just wonder - why would one choose to be with meta-distro and go through all these steps of making program usable every time one wants to install new software....... its unimaginable for me. I prefer binary distro where I just download things...... I can compile sth still from time to time, but not always.....
Also I prefer nice, graphical (or at least semi graphical) installer (as in binary distros).
Generally, binary distros look nicer, requires much less time to operate and requires much less knowledge then Gentoo - I have nothing against getting to know new things but Gentoo (for me) is the most difficult distro ever (far more difficult than LFS even)......


Fair enough. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I agree with you to a certain extent. But I believe this confusion has arisen because you are posting on the Gentoo forums and you seem to be running a Gentoo system. If you knew you felt this way about source-based distributions, why did you even bother going through the install process? Also, I honestly don't see how it can be more difficult to maintain than an LFS. Portage is a package manager (albeit source based) that handles dependencies. LFS doesn't have a package manager at all.
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

developer1 wrote:
I just wonder - why would one choose to be with meta-distro and go through all these steps of making program usable every time one wants to install new software....... its unimaginable for me.
Well, first of all, all the steps I typically go through to install a new software package are
Code:
emerge packagename
Believe it or not, this works just like that more often than not. Once you get Gentoo set up, it's largely trouble free. Of course, "largely" doesn't mean "always" and, when the process breaks, it can take some time to sort out.
developer1 wrote:
Generally, binary distros look nicer, requires much less time to operate and requires much less knowledge then Gentoo ...
I think you're right on two out of three points. On the issue of aesthetics, take a look at the Gentoo Screenshot Contest for 2012. I think you'll find many examples of beautiful, totally custom environments that look nicer than many canned binary distros, although this is, of course, a matter of taste. I certainly like the look of my custom Gentoo better than, for instance, the current Ubuntu.

- John
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not say that Gentoo (or to be precise - Gentoo's desktop) cannot be beatifully arranged....it can.... depends on user's taste....
I have just said that its more complicated to do it under Gentoo than under any other distros.....

And Gentoo is not hassle free...... getting 3in1 Brother DCP330C (no matter how connected - locally via usb or via network) is a nightmare, whereas its a breeze even under Arch....

Lets summarize installation oif DCP-330C (as example - to be honest this can be easily reffered to Canon 3in1 as well - tested by me):

1. download rpm's from Brother download page,
2. as RPM (rpm management tool) is not installed by default, emerge it,
3. rpm -ihv --nodeps both files; nodeps because Gentoo is not wise enough to download dependencies with installed packet/s - this amyway will produce an error, that setup cannot create dirs (strange - having root priviledges system is unable to do standard install procedure ???? ), causing installation to end with no system changes being made, (in fact changes are made - but it seems like chmod's is wrongly set as whole dir (/usr/local becomes inaccessible).
4. Installing dependencies first (manually) and than repeating step 3 results in error that device is not connected or is powered off (bullshit - lsbusb shows device by name connected to usb port, so device is connected and on),

And now something best - after rebooting into Gentoo printer is ready to opearate (both scan & print). Its called a bug - yes, console (and affiliates) in Gentoo is buggy - sends wrong messages to user. And of course - /usr/local is accessible as normally..... too strange system for me..... I prefer Mint
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seoneal7 wrote:
[LFS doesn't have a package manager at all.

Thats true, and this is the most fair for me - you are not forced to have specific pakage management system - you can install whatever system suits you best. Its freedom......
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have a choice too. You can delete gentoo and get ubuntu. Really, we won't hate you for having it your way. It's not windows after all :lol:
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