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why Gentoo sucks, and why it will ultimately die
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mv
Watchman
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kick6 wrote:
I wanted to remove xdm, and remove all packagesat only xdm had listed as dependencies.

To perhaps clarify your misunderstanding: Here you write clearly that you want two tasks ("and"). You gave the command appropriate for the safe execution of the first task. There is no command for the second task, but there is a command to remove all orphaned dependencies (which is probably what you want, anyway), namely emerge --depclean without atoms.
For some reason, you want portage to read your mind instead of your commands and expect that the first command does something in addition: How should portage know that you want for the first task something in addition (especially, how should portage distinguish this case from the one where you do not want the additional action)?
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hasufell
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

correct, sounds like a user error

he should read the portage introduction:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=2&chap=1
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drhouse123
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCat8 wrote:
Since I have been on Gentoo, I have tried a number of other distros (to include Sabayon, Linux Mint, CentOS just to name a couple), and find myself *always* returning to Gentoo.


I fully agreed.
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Roman_Gruber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

windows annoying like hell

suse / linux mint / arch fail on updating the box or make the box unbootable.

a binary distro is a pain in the ass to update, it is time consuming while a gentoo box updated every 3 weeks is less a bother. just let it do it and than come back and smile.

Gentoo is less buggy as it was in the past.
Even updating libaries won t break anything as teh libaries are kept now and the packages are rebuild now with emerge @preserved-rebuild. A really great feature, before that it was a bit oh I screwed something up.

I am down to a small lean environment => i3wm => i3 or i3wm in portage.
no other distro has less cruft. Mint is a pain and others too. laggy and update hell for any linux mint disc i used in past two years.


Gentoo may have sucked in the past a bit but now I doubt.

Only thing I wish the systemd thing would been kicked out of the portage tree, so the forum would have less systemd related support requests. You can not fix crap and systemd in portage is maybe a reason gentoo may suck now (just kidding)
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Perfect Gentleman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i got 4 desktops and 1 laptop, on all these comps Arch works fine. and I've never had problems with it.
But now my desktop is on Gentoo. And I see all cons and pros of Gentoo.
The main downside of Gentoo is its maintainers: resolving bugs, version bumping is sooo loooong to wait.
Arch is the best binary distro, and I'm not sure that Gentoo is the best of sourced based.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect Gentleman wrote:
The main downside of Gentoo is its maintainers: resolving bugs, version bumping is sooo loooong to wait.
Arch is the best binary distro, and I'm not sure that Gentoo is the best of sourced based.


That's kind of ironic since arch is based on gentoo :roll:

Edit to add: it started out that way, I assume it still is.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That thread was sleeping from june (that was a good record), rat doctorhouse!!!
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Perfect Gentleman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:

That's kind of ironic since arch is based on gentoo :roll:

Arch is based on Gentoo, I've never heard of this, but I've heard that it was based on Crux.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Perfect Gentleman wrote:
The main downside of Gentoo is its maintainers: resolving bugs, version bumping is sooo loooong to wait.
Arch is the best binary distro, and I'm not sure that Gentoo is the best of sourced based.


That's kind of ironic since arch is based on gentoo :roll:

Edit to add: it started out that way, I assume it still is.
its not based upon Gentoo..
It took inspiration from Gentoo for the "bleeding edge" mantra
For their ABS system it followed Ports
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krinn
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They share rolling release design as well. Even binary vs source, they are more close than one could think at first look (that's why i suppose we see many arch users and arch see many gentoo users coming in and out in their forum).
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Naib
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I know ( I do like arch for my binary rollouts) but considering the extent of the misconception (ie arch based upon gentoo....) it was simpler to dismiss the bigger differences.

Exherbo is based upon Gentoo
Arch is influenced by Gentoo
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never used arch, but I had heard that in the past, or maybe my memory is playing tricks.

Anyway if one is happy with arch, then go there.
If one finds gentoo too hard, then they need to look elsewhere, go back to arch or RH or whatever.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Exherbo is based upon Gentoo
Arch is influenced by Gentoo

No; sysresccd is based on Gentoo.

Exherbo is a wannabe-fork that never made it, when the predicted herds of developers didn't all follow McCreesh and the
few vocal asshats he managed to con onto his team, as well as the poor muppets who found it impossible to escape
the brainwashing.

Originally it was all about how everyone would be using paludis soon, as it was so much faster (supposedly: like systemd the
tune changed when they didn't fulfil the pledge.) Then it was all about how exheres was so much better than ebuilds, and
paludis was the only "correct" package manager; never mind that it couldn't build a gentoo install, that was somebody
else's bug, always somebody else's problem; or blame the user, and if that doesn't work, blame the hardware, and
pontificate for hours on end about anything other than getting the job done.

Hmm spookily similar to Poeterring.

Something tells me GnomeOS will be about as relevant to Linux in a few years, as Exherbo is to Gentoo now.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
I've never used arch, but I had heard that in the past, or maybe my memory is playing tricks.

Anyway if one is happy with arch, then go there.
If one finds gentoo too hard, then they need to look elsewhere, go back to arch or RH or whatever.
funny thing is aspects of arch is/was harder than gentoo.
Before they went systemd they had one very large /etc/rc file to manage all their services & other aspects of the OS tuning (locale etc...) ... really annoying to use.

Arch going systemd made sense for them as their initial stab was dumb.
What makes Arch harder than gentoo is the fact it is a rolling release (like Gentoo) BUT an odd concept of versions...

Let me clarify... EACH package has a version: foo-1.0.0 so when an update occurs you get foo-1.0.1 and you know that, you know the version of foo you have. HOWEVER... you cannot choose what version of foo you want AND even worse you cannot revert to foo-1.0.0 *IF* foo-1.0.1 has some nasty issues...

Then there's their versions with their kernel release: 3.10.0.ARCH being bumped to 3.10.0.ARCH (oh how they mis-interpreted the user field in the kernel config :) ) which then causes no end of problems with regards to inserting modules because 3.10.0.ARCH is not compatible with 3.10.0.ARCH.

Oh and then there is package names...

you want gvim? sure pacman gvim ... you get vim with teh GUI
you want to install vim... well you need to install the entire Xorg stack because they compile vim with the X flag (fine... downside of binary is you are slave to someone elses settings).
But wait, what if you want command-line only... they have a package call "vi"

but vi != vim... except they called it that to indicate cmd-line only vim
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL,

... but GnomeOS is bankrolled by Red Hat. I'm not so sure it will die out unless it takes Red Hat down with it.
Its rather like forecasting the demise of ChromeOS, Android or Windows, all of which have solid commercial backing.

Exherbo on the other hand ...

The real differences are in the advertising budget. With good advertising you can easily sell technically inferior stuff.
Think VHS vs Betamax

GnomeOS does not need to be good, it just needs the advertising to gain market share.
Red Hat don't care whose market share it takes, after all, they are only doing it due to their fidicary duty to shareholders.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
GnomeOS is bankrolled by Red Hat. I'm not so sure it will die out unless it takes Red Hat down with it.
Its rather like forecasting the demise of ChromeOS, Android or Windows, all of which have solid commercial backing.

Hmm not really; I'm not forecasting the demise of RH. After all they are in fact part of a massive energy conglomerate no-one had ever heard of before they bought RH, another one of those shadowy organisations creaming so much money off the backs of ordinary people, moving it around the globe to avoid taxes that only the "little people" pay.

Companies often come out with "great" ideas, only for them to be quietly shelved a few years later, and surprise surprise, there's another "new innovation" to sell you the same thing you had before. Microserf has a history of it, for example, and I think it's pretty clear that RH are doing a Microserf.
Quote:
The real differences are in the advertising budget. With good advertising you can easily sell technically inferior stuff.
Think VHS vs Betamax

GnomeOS does not need to be good, it just needs the advertising to gain market share.
Red Hat don't care whose market share it takes, after all, they are only doing it due to their fidicary duty to shareholders.

Sure, though mostly this is about locking down the Linux market, so that there are "no alternatives" to using RH. It's monopoly or cartel play, and all about business and money, not about software nor users, who like I said are the product, not the customers.

Their employer, or much more often someone exploiting them some other way via "Web-2.0", is the customer.

As such it makes zero sense for me to presume they are acting in my interests. There isn't even the traditional purchaser-supplier relationship going on any more. Hardware suppliers supposedly, but they are already bribed by software vendors, and apparently that's fine.

My real objection to it all is the constant dumbing-down, much like we've seen in British broadcasting over the last 35 years or so.
Yes there's 150 channels, but they're all full of crap. None of it is designed to educate or inform, merely to fill your head full of cognitive dissonance so you'll buy some more crap in the vainglorious hope that it'll make your life better, when all it does is give you a temporary feeling of relief; a moment that is fleeting and about as substantial as the crap they're feeding down the tubes.

Funny ISTR "The Economist" banging on about how corruption is inefficient. They should stop lecturing the RoTW and take a look at their own "nations". From what I've seen and read, that's where the corruption comes from.

Supposedly that's a "radical" site, but it reads really tame to me, and no-one has ever questioned the veracity of the facts presented. Merely sought to do that usual sneering tone so beloved of those who think they're "in the know". After the event everyone talks about the "real-politik" of why they were such inhumane specimens, as if that were obvious. Yet they still present the same set of bulshytt pretexts for the next genocidal episode, and pretend to be sending drones in only to help the nations concerned, by killing their children.
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