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Can someone copyright a set of CFLAGS?
Yes
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vipernicus
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject: Can someone copyright a set of CFLAGS? Reply with quote

This is referring to a post BobP, creater of Jackass! made. He seems to believe that he can copyright everything. What is your take on this?

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-333123-start-175.html
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Chaosite
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IANAL, so I'm not touching this one with a 500 foot pole.

Both are you are being anal here, though. :P
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone copyright a set of CFLAGS?

:evil: Sounds BAD!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-ekz3me- wrote:
Can someone copyright a set of CFLAGS?

:evil: Sounds BAD!!

actuallly it more sound stupid :)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:roll: :lol: :roll: :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R.I.P. wrote:
-ekz3me- wrote:
Can someone copyright a set of CFLAGS?

:evil: Sounds BAD!!

actuallly it more sound stupid :)

Seconded :roll: :)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In theory he can copyright the document in it's entirety. By default in the US everything from the post-it note you put on your monitor to a DVD movie is copyrighted, so BobP clearly plagerised the copyrighted work done by the Gentoo Foundation.

I think this is a non-issue, BobP is probably just looking for attribution for his part in the projects.

If it's a big issue I can write up some cleanroom make.conf files for the various CPUs, and put them under a CC license, I have not seen the Jackass! files.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/me loves living in Europe

in all honesty tho these CFLAGS have already been documented, they will be listed in the GCC man pages for starters. ALL BobP has done is pulled together the infomation. For this *Uneque* document he could say he has copyright over it, BUT he does not have copyright over CFLAGS

soulds like BobP is like SCO with alot less money or MS-backing
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking no.

From trademark.gov:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wwp
Quote:
Copyright protects "original works of authorship" that are fixed in a tangible form of expression. The fixation need not be directly perceptible so long as it may be communicated with the aid of a machine or device. Copyrightable works include the following categories:

1. literary works;
2. musical works, including any accompanying words
3. dramatic works, including any accompanying music
4. pantomimes and choreographic works
5. pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works
6. motion pictures and other audiovisual works
7. sound recordings
8. architectural works

These categories should be viewed broadly. For example, computer programs and most "compilations" may be registered as "literary works"; maps and architectural plans may be registered as "pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works."


So *maybe* it could fit under literary works, however the page goes on to say what is *not* protected.

Quote:
Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents

and
Quote:
Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration


I think CFLAGS probably fit into one of these catagories, or maybe both, so I'm conluding that you can't copyright CFLAGS.

Another problem is that chances are that someone has used the same set of CFLAGS before, so who has right's to the copyright then?


(this is for US trademarks, I have no idea in other countries... actually I have no idea in the US too, it's just an eduacated guess)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:

soulds like BobP is like SCO with alot less money or MS-backing


I think that is pretty harsh....I don't see him sueing the world and claiming ownership to all Linux, UNIX, and derived OS's.

I think he just didn't like the fact that someone cut and pasted out of his guide without getting credit for it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The funny thing is that in regard to that particular comment, the flags were not exact, or copy-pasted.

They were similiar to his, so he assumed that someone was copying his work and failing at it. God forbid someone else hav a similiar idea.

That is not only arrogant, but silly.

I made the mistake of downloading one of his tarballs as a starting point. Even though I didn't use his guide, and I changed all the flags, and built a whole new toolchain with custom patches I've thrown in, my computer has Rockhopper popping up all over it every time I log in via console, or do an emerge --info.

My computer is not a Rockhopper build. I just wanted to start with any tarball that had a GCC 4.x build to start from as opposed to upgrading from GCC 3.x to start with. I've never even read his guides because of how antagonistic I've routinely see him be to people who've asked him for help.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like complete bollocks to me considering his first stage3 install tutorial was based on my own stage1 developers method tutorial :wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ali3nx wrote:
sounds like complete bollocks to me considering his first stage3 install tutorial was based on my own stage1 developers method tutorial :wink:


In which was based off of the Gentoo Install Guide right? Thus nothing is completely original here. BobP can't argue his was the first.. An install guide for gentoo had to come first.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if he claims he was the first to use a specific set of CFLAGS ( in a certain order at that mind), I would still classify as derivative works / plagurisim / theft of any original CFLAGS combinations that he would have seen.

Unless of course, the ONLY CFLAGS reference was the GCC manual, and only one CFLAG was specified at a time, and he was like "OMG,. GENIUS.. I SHOULD USE THESE CFLAGS TOGETHER AND COMBINE THEIR BENEFITS" .. and was the first to do so , then he MIGHT have something worth claiming.

Otherwise.. its al BS .

a CFLAG string with 7 variables is hardly something unique, if it were, every time you typed a character you would be breaking the copyright patent on every other litereary document that contains characters which contain 7 or more bits. But the added Irony is, all those documents would also clash with each others copyrights too, and as such, no bugger would ever write anything cos the patent police would sue their ass

* gets arrested and dragged out by patent police*
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nesl247 wrote:
ali3nx wrote:
sounds like complete bollocks to me considering his first stage3 install tutorial was based on my own stage1 developers method tutorial :wink:


In which was based off of the Gentoo Install Guide right? Thus nothing is completely original here. BobP can't argue his was the first.. An install guide for gentoo had to come first.


Just to clear the air here the gentoo handbook guide wasn't available at the time i authored my install method and certainly mentioned nothing about nptl. Despite that in the spirit of commons contribution I had and still have no gripes with anyone using what was just a contribution to a community that gave me something in return for the years of effort I've spent helping either as an infra admin for gentoo and with early bug testing and development on amd64 and x86 when 2.6 was initially released or for installing over 1900 gentoo systems pro bono over ssh on every continent in the world. To copyright any of it would seem hghly pretentious and insightful :?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get it. What's the big deal? The way the GPL and Creative Commons licenses work, an author is REQUIRED to copyright something in order to have the right to release it under the GPL or a Creative Commons License. From what I can tell, that's exactly what he did: LINK.

Bob P wrote:
vipernicus wrote:
Bob P wrote:
indeed, nxsty is right. if socr0819 is planning on copying the Jackass! CFLAGS, he would be better advised to use the current Jackass! CFLAGS and not the deprecated ones. :idea:


...you're taking ownership of a set of CFLAGS? Why would you assume he is using Jackass!, when he has not posted in Jackass! Forums? It's almost like your comment was a marketing ploy opposed to any real help.

maybe you don't have enough experience to recognize it, but his post is a character-for-character reproduction of a segment of a copyrighted document. yes, i have ownership of that document. otherwise, i would not have the authority to release it under the GPL. that's the way open source works -- as the owner of a document you have to copyright it before you have the right to release it under the GPL.


Doing that would put him in compliance with either the GPL or Creative Commons. That is actually what the Gentoo Documentation Project requires!

The funny thing is that it looks like somebody's digging up a topic that's been dead for over 3 months. So what's the problem? If the configuration files that contain the CFLAGS were released under the GPL or Creative Commons, the guy did what everyone does in Open Source development: copyright and license for others to use for free. I don't understand why you're trying to fry this guy -- are you his jilted homosexual lover or something? :lol:
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is he's trying to claim ownership of a certain set of CFLAGS. They're not exactly an original work - they're more like putting the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle together. You put them together in a certain way, and you make something new. And the 'style' of setting one CFLAG per line is HARDLY unique. It's useful if you tend to change CFLAGS quite a bit, or sometimes need to disable one quickly - just comment out any given line. I've seen that style of CFLAGS, and other variables (such as USE, PORTDIR_OVERLAY, and even GENTOO_MIRRORS) from many people's posted make.conf's - it's not unique, and it's a good idea if you need to change things quickly (and don't like typing alot - particularly for the PORTDIR_OVERLAY usage, if you have multiple overlays).

I say it's completely idiotic to say a set of CFLAGS, even in a particular order, even formatted a certain way is copyrightable in any way whatsoever. I bet that at least several thousand people have the same CFLAGS as I do (they're quite basic ones - --march=pentium4 -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe), but I'm hardly breaking anyone's copyright by having them, and no one is breaking my copyright for the simple reason that they are uncopyrightable.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vipernicus,

BobP is not claiming copyright of a set of CFLAGS. He claims copyright of the document that they are listed in, the two things are quite seperate. Indeed, if BobP wrote the document, then the copyright is his unless he assigns it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
vipernicus,

BobP is not claiming copyright of a set of CFLAGS. He claims copyright of the document that they are listed in, the two things are quite seperate. Indeed, if BobP wrote the document, then the copyright is his unless he assigns it.


Really?

Bob P wrote:
indeed, nxsty is right. if socr0819 is planning on copying the Jackass! CFLAGS, he would be better advised to use the current Jackass! CFLAGS and not the deprecated ones.


Sure sounds like he is saying those CFLAGS belong to him, which is funny, because again, as I understand it, they weren't the exact Jackass! CFLAGS but merely similiar as it was posted later in the thread. So Bob P not only claims a set of CFLAGS as his domain, but all flags that are similiar to boot.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enderandrew wrote:
Bob P wrote:
indeed, nxsty is right. if socr0819 is planning on copying the Jackass! CFLAGS, he would be better advised to use the current Jackass! CFLAGS and not the deprecated ones.


Sure sounds like he is saying those CFLAGS belong to him, which is funny, because again, as I understand it, they weren't the exact Jackass! CFLAGS but merely similiar as it was posted later in the thread. So Bob P not only claims a set of CFLAGS as his domain, but all flags that are similiar to boot.


in fact at any point socr0819 says is using any document or file, from jackass! or any other How-to.
He just lists his planned CFLAGS (very common ones!) and says it plans to build a stage1...

It's like if some says
Quote:
I want to be here.

it was immediatly quoting the Shakespeare... Not true of course.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plus anyway IF bobP really did just "copyright" the document so that it could be release under the GPL, why was he making a fuss that someone is using GPL material?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your posts. Looks to me that it is not possible to copyright CFLAGS, though there were a couple who believe that you should be able to. Interesting results.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enderandrew wrote:
Bob P wrote:
indeed, nxsty is right. if socr0819 is planning on copying the Jackass! CFLAGS, he would be better advised to use the current Jackass! CFLAGS and not the deprecated ones.


Sure sounds like he is saying those CFLAGS belong to him, which is funny, because again, as I understand it, they weren't the exact Jackass! CFLAGS but merely similiar as it was posted later in the thread. So Bob P not only claims a set of CFLAGS as his domain, but all flags that are similiar to boot.


It sounds more like BobP is telling socr0819 to use the newer Jackass CFLAGS since they're newer. It's just a friendly piece of advice.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chunderbunny wrote:
enderandrew wrote:
Bob P wrote:
indeed, nxsty is right. if socr0819 is planning on copying the Jackass! CFLAGS, he would be better advised to use the current Jackass! CFLAGS and not the deprecated ones.


Sure sounds like he is saying those CFLAGS belong to him, which is funny, because again, as I understand it, they weren't the exact Jackass! CFLAGS but merely similiar as it was posted later in the thread. So Bob P not only claims a set of CFLAGS as his domain, but all flags that are similiar to boot.


It sounds more like BobP is telling socr0819 to use the newer Jackass CFLAGS since they're newer. It's just a friendly piece of advice.

I think the question is not that specific post quoted, but a couple of post ahead:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-333123-start-192.html
BobP says he owns a copyright document but no one is mention a document, only a set of CFLAGS that seems to be the same as an old version of Jackass! (and probabilly on hundred of other computers... since they are very common among ricers :lol:)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GPL.

He can't take freedoms from users when he derives something from stuff licensed under a copyleft license.

So, no, he can't copyright his custom CFLAGS.

Edit:
"Can't copyright" in the sense of "can't take freedoms from users". International copyright law allready makes you copyright any stuff you create ...
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