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rufiao
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:27 pm    Post subject: Merge mailing lists and forums Reply with quote

It seems the activity in the forums surpasses the mailing lists (at least for the 2 more active lists, gentoo-dev and gentoo-users). It would be interesting to merge both (setting the forums as the primary interface), and provide some kind of bridge to allow people to post and receive messages through e-mail. Is this doable?
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klieber
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mailing lists and forums are two entirely different mediums. The mailing lists are not separated by topics (other than at the highest level -- gentoo-newbiew, gentoo-dev, etc) nor are they threaded. Aligning them with the forums would be very difficult to do.

Then, you have the issue of email <--> forum synchronization. Currently, there are no phpBB 2.0 hacks that I'm aware of to do this. So, someone would need to step up and write one. (this isn't an easy thing to do, btw)

Personally, I don't see a problem with having separate mediums for communiction -- some people prefer IRC, others prefer mailing lists and still others prefer the forums. Trying to fuse them together might not produce expected (or desired) results.

--kurt
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rufiao
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
The mailing lists and forums are two entirely different mediums. The mailing lists are not separated by topics (other than at the highest level -- gentoo-newbiew, gentoo-dev, etc) nor are they threaded. Aligning them with the forums would be very difficult to do.

Then, you have the issue of email <--> forum synchronization. Currently, there are no phpBB 2.0 hacks that I'm aware of to do this. So, someone would need to step up and write one. (this isn't an easy thing to do, btw)

You may check this hack:
http://www.phpbbhacks.com/viewhack.php?id=126

Also, some forum engines are capable of handling both threaded and flat modes (I'm not sure about phpBB).

klieber wrote:

Personally, I don't see a problem with having separate mediums for communiction -- some people prefer IRC, others prefer mailing lists and still others prefer the forums. Trying to fuse them together might not produce expected (or desired) results.

Forums and mailing lists are supposed to provide the same kind of communication infrastructure (IRC is something different, for sure). I'm afraid that some information is being duplicated in the mailing lists and the forums, which is definitely not a good thing.
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klieber
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rufiao wrote:
You may check this hack:
http://www.phpbbhacks.com/viewhack.php?id=126


OK, but what does that hack have to do with the issue at hand?

rufiao wrote:
Also, some forum engines are capable of handling both threaded and flat modes (I'm not sure about phpBB).


phpBB is threaded-only.

rufiao wrote:
I'm afraid that some information is being duplicated in the mailing lists and the forums, which is definitely not a good thing.


Information is being duplicated within these forums, never mind the mailing list -- I don't see that offering a sync between the two solves the duplicate info problem for either.

--kurt
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rufiao
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
rufiao wrote:
You may check this hack:
http://www.phpbbhacks.com/viewhack.php?id=126

OK, but what does that hack have to do with the issue at hand?

I don't know if it serves for this issue or not, although it could be the case.

klieber wrote:
rufiao wrote:
I'm afraid that some information is being duplicated in the mailing lists and the forums, which is definitely not a good thing.

Information is being duplicated within these forums, never mind the mailing list -- I don't see that offering a sync between the two solves the duplicate info problem for either.

It would at least minimize the problem. It's not a bad thing to have duplicated information, if this is done on purpose. The point is that because of duplicated systems people talking in the mailing lists and forums may not be aware one of each other, and that discussions on a given topic could have been exausted on the other medium (if this is the case inside the forums, blame the users for not being able to use the search, not the system).
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klieber
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rufiao wrote:
I don't know if it serves for this issue or not, although it could be the case.

That hack has nothing to do with synchronizing an existing mailing list with an existing phpBB forum.

rufiao wrote:
The point is that because of duplicated systems people talking in the mailing lists and forums may not be aware one of each other, and that discussions on a given topic could have been exausted on the other medium

OK, but my point is that at least 50% of all the questions that get asked on these forums have already been answered in the forum archives and it still doesn't prevent people from posting a new question rather than searching for the answer themselves. How will sync'ing between the mailing list and these forums improve that in any measurable way?

rufiao wrote:
(if this is the case inside the forums, blame the users for not being able to use the search, not the system).


That's my whole point -- many users are already too lazy to search (broad generalization -- I know) I don't see how your suggestion would make users any more likely to search prior to posting. (and, if they don't search for the information, then what's the point of increasing the amount of information from which they can draw?)

I'm not saying that this suggestion is without merit. However, given the time and effort it would take to implement such a system, the marginal value just doesn't seem significant enough.

That's my $.02, at least. Others may feel differently.

--kurt
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pbienst
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I wouldn't mind shutting down the mailing lists altogether. I 'd find it much more convenient to have all the information in one place, rather than having to check both the forum and the mailing lists.

The forums are nicely threaded, easily searchable and have an interface and functionality than far surpasses that of the mailing lists IMHO.

Keeping separate mailing lists around with separate content only serves to create duplication and splintering.
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rufiao
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pbienst wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't mind shutting down the mailing lists altogether. I 'd find it much more convenient to have all the information in one place, rather than having to check both the forum and the mailing lists.

The forums are nicely threaded, easily searchable and have an interface and functionality than far surpasses that of the mailing lists IMHO.

Keeping separate mailing lists around with separate content only serves to create duplication and splintering.

It's ok for me to shut down the mailing lists too. How can a consensus can be achieved on this issue?
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klieber
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rufiao wrote:
It's ok for me to shut down the mailing lists too. How can a consensus can be achieved on this issue?


Post a message to the mailing list suggesting everyone there agree to stop using it. :)

Seriously, I doubt that this suggestion will fly. Some folks prefer mailing lists over forums, for whatever reason. I happen to like both, and thus participate on both. I know others will swear by mailing lists and abhor using forums. YMMV.

--kurt
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