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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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 Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:43 pm Post subject: The future of source based OS's, Linux, and Windows, Mac.... |
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abc def
Last edited by ChaosCommand on Sat Apr 12, 2003 9:42 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Borkdude
n00b
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Eliminate console? Working from a console is one of the major benefits of linux, imho...
The oppurtiny to let processes communicate with each other through piping and redirecting and stuff is one big other. I can't think of any better way to do that from a console.
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Lycander
Guru
Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 468
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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If you have broadband and a router setting up Internet connection in Gentoo should be easy. It does have auto detect. The only problem I ran into was using Vi to edit resolv.conf, I wish the install guide had mentioned nano during the step for editing resolv.conf instead of all the way ahead at make.conf.
I also learned that when doing the command to add the default gateway, the netmask has to be 0.0.0.0 My first instinct was to set it to 255.255.255.0 and with that I was not able to ping a domain (i.e. # ping www.gentoo.org) but removing the default gateway and redoing it with netmask 0.0.0.0 and I was able to ping using domain name. So then I was "on the Internet".
Are you just having difficulties with hardware detection or doing the network setup? |
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Malakin
Veteran
Joined: 14 Apr 2002
Posts: 1692
Location: Victoria BC Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Why can't it just automatically configure the internet like MD, R-H, and probably Suse and others do? |
Gentoo is meant to do exactly what it does and no more.
It sounds like Gentoo just might not be what you're looking for at this point in time. |
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flickerfly
l33t
Joined: 08 Nov 2002
Posts: 677
Location: Lanham, MD
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: I'm just not ready for gentoo, or maybe it's the other w |
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I withdraw my comments on the grounds that I do not desire to continue the direction of this discussion.
 Linux is for me, you decide for yourself.
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Last edited by flickerfly on Sun Apr 13, 2003 3:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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michaelb
l33t
Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 686
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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GUIs are like diapers. Sooner or later you need to outgrow them.
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Behold, The power of SEARCH! |
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brain
Apprentice
Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 229
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: I'm just not ready for gentoo, or maybe it's the other w |
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| ChaosCommand wrote: | I have tried installing 28 1/2 times now... I get all the way to the boot prompt. But I can never get on the internet. Why can't it just automatically configure the internet like MD, R-H, and probably Suse and others do? I can't believe just because of this stupid modprobe and kernel setup thing, is wasting my time. I guess I am going back to RH and Mandrake until Gentoo can get a better installer.
In the future, users are going to want more automated systems. Computers are meant to allow you to work faster, and be able to do things for you... Not the other way around  I hope gentoo will survive at this rate.
But once again, I did learn alot, but as linux progresses, I am sure it will get less complicated, and probably even eliminate console all together within the next 5 -10 years. |
I dunno, but at least to me it seems that Gentoo has absolutely the simplest network configuration of any Linux distro I've tried (including Redhat).
Of course, this isn't true if you let RedHat do all the configuring for you--good luck trying to change it later!
Really though, there's simply two places where your network stuff would have broken: 1) The kernel was configured wrong 2) /etc/conf.d/net
What was your problem?
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OoAzzAoO
n00b
Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:11 am Post subject: Re: I'm just not ready for gentoo, or maybe it's the other w |
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| ChaosCommand wrote: |
But once again, I did learn alot, but as linux progresses, I am sure it will get less complicated, and probably even eliminate console all together within the next 5 -10 years. |
hell will freeze.... command for command.. my console smokes your clicked-based gui
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st. anger
Apprentice
Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:17 am Post subject: Re: I'm just not ready for gentoo, or maybe it's the other w |
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| ChaosCommand wrote: | I have tried installing 28 1/2 times now... I get all the way to the boot prompt. But I can never get on the internet. Why can't it just automatically configure the internet like MD, R-H, and probably Suse and others do? I can't believe just because of this stupid modprobe and kernel setup thing, is wasting my time. I guess I am going back to RH and Mandrake until Gentoo can get a better installer.
In the future, users are going to want more automated systems. Computers are meant to allow you to work faster, and be able to do things for you... Not the other way around I hope gentoo will survive at this rate.
But once again, I did learn alot, but as linux progresses, I am sure it will get less complicated, and probably even eliminate console all together within the next 5 -10 years. |
if you are so content with mandrake and redhat the why did you bother with gentoo?
to even ponder installing gentoo you must be familiar with its more "involved" functionality
point is: gentoo is not a secret, you had to know what you were getting into, dont complain.
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:15 am Post subject: |
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efg hij
Last edited by ChaosCommand on Sat Apr 12, 2003 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:16 am Post subject: |
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BTW, please read my message clear before posting insults, flames, and other things, as I usually end up pointing to the thread itself when I have to explain myself  |
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:20 am Post subject: |
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BTW, this is not aimed specifically at Gentoo, although some parts. And Some of it is Linux as a whole.
O yeah, let me add Mac into the equation. before Mac OS9, Mac was almost nothing compared to windows. Now you look at Mac OSX, major sites have reported that more than 40% of the people that own a computer or more, own a MacOSX computer. And I am sure we know why that is. MacOS9 = ugly, nothing pretty to look at Mac OSX = cool, pretty, nice graphical interface
Again, it all makes sense to where OS's are headed that don't follow the above example. DOS is the perfect example. The CLI will be an example, not as soon, because of the more ability it offers than just plain old dos, but, you all should understand after my previous posts... It is self explanitory. |
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:27 am Post subject: |
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And another thing to throw in.... see this Forum... the installation help forum. It is tooooo big. People in the future are not going to want a thread like this period, otherwise they probably won't use that OS.
I am just thinking of things as I go, as technology really does put things on my mind. Maybe that could be my job one day, a computer/technology scientist type thing. |
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st. anger
Apprentice
Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:40 am Post subject: |
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then why are you here?
gentoo does not claim to be easy. although alot of people have no problems with it...
if you dont like it , stick with red hat, or stay with windows.
btw, as long as humans communicate with text/words/language,
there wil always be a command line. imho
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:43 am Post subject: |
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opq rst
Last edited by ChaosCommand on Sat Apr 12, 2003 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:47 am Post subject: |
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uvw xyz
Last edited by ChaosCommand on Sat Apr 12, 2003 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | then why are you here?
gentoo does not claim to be easy. although alot of people have no problems with it... |
Then why am I here? To inform.
Gentoo does not claim to be easy, although alot of people have no probelms with it...
I guess my eyes deceive me when I look at this single Forum, asking for constant help threads.
Once again, my earlier message already answered your questions. |
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The biggest drawback to going with a source-based system though is the time associated with them. The fact that it'll take me 24 hours or more to compile and setup a basic KDE 3.1 system with all of the necessary components (Xfree, Sound, etc.) is something that definitely makes me leery to going this route for my primary desktop system.
I'm someone who likes to try a lot of different programs in order to come up with something that best meets my needs, and the fact that I'd be faced with hours of compiling, just to try a program, is daunting to say the least. The reward would be a system totally defined by me, but the cost is the time necessary to set this up, and of course while my system's compiling, I can't use it!
And although Gentoo is by far the most popular source based system, it's also fairly intimidating in that I have to do virtually everything manually. This is changing somewhat as Gentoo readies their 1.4 release, but generally speaking with Gentoo you have to manually setup everything from the boot process to the programs themselves. I wish that Gentoo had an installer similar to Sorcerer Linux, another source-based distribution.
...
I understand that Gentoo's intimidating, but does it have to be so manual? Well no... Sorcerer's proved to me it doesn't have to be so manual. So why don't I install Sorcerer than and use it for my dream system? Well, besides the time associated with compiling everything, which is the same as Gentoo, my fear is that I'll again build up a nice robust source based distribution, only to have Kyle and his crew suffer another fallout and leave me stranded with a source based system that's not easily updated.
...
The biggest problems the source-based distributions face, in addition to the time associated with compiling everything, and the need to manually configure your system, is the fact that you're more or less reliant on its creators in order to keep the list of available software up-to-date. With the popularity of Gentoo, I don't see that as being as big of an issue for them as it would be for Sorcerer or one of the other smaller Linux systems, but again Gentoo isn't as friendly as Sorcerer showed me that source-based Linux distributions can be.
...
{This is the best part}
Summary: Source based systems are great if you have an extra box lying around to use as your desktop until your compiled system is ready to go. If you're using a source based system as your primary desktop, I'd recommend having a backup system to use just in case you do run into problems, or in case you need to do actual work while the compilation's taking place.
Also be prepared to learn a lot about Linux if you go the source-based route! This is one of the main reasons that source-based advocates use when referring someone to such systems. And while I agree that everyone should know more about how their OS works, I can't agree with forcing people to learn every myriad detail of a whole new architecture just to have a responsive, customized Linux system as their main OS.
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Quote from http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3229&page=11
That right there sums up almost half of what I said, and it is true. You can't argue that, you can say you don't agree with it, but you can't argue it. |
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| And just to remind, I am only informing everyone using linux. There is no need to argue with me, as I personally don't care why you don't agree with that, as everything I have said, has already been proven before, just like in science, they have a hypthosis, theory, and law. You can somehow say, it is between theory and law. |
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Anyways, with all the above aside, can anyone direct me to a good source on how to set up Gentoo for dual boot?
It would be appreciated. |
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ChaosCommand
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| BTW, you can go on ahead and delete this post, I moved it to the Gentoo Chat section, as it doens't seem right being here. |
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Valheru
Guru
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 300
Location: Leeuwarden - The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| This thread consists largely of you taking to yourself - this should tell you something... |
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Likvid
n00b
Joined: 16 Dec 2002
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| He is a troll...... |
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adamofgreyskull
n00b
Joined: 11 Apr 2003
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Likvid wrote: | | He is a troll...... |
..just not a very good one....I mean... 7 posts in a row?? |
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Valorin
n00b
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Windows PC's and Macs are for a certain type of people. Not many people I know that use Linux will tell you that it's for everyone. It's mainly intended for experienced computer types that want control over their computer. You can't modify anything in Windows compared to Linux, you can't remove built in drivers, manually fix things that are wrong. You've put out some fair arguments for your opinion, but I can't help but think that you're interpreting Linux as something that it isn't. If you're looking for a good standardized GUI, windows might be good, but Linux is still better. You can have any kind of GUI you want (if you're willing to write it yourself), and things like Gnome and KDE are working towards a good GUI which you can easily navigate (better than windows in my opinion). If you're looking for simplicity, you only have a few choices: the simple Linux distributions (Mandrake, SUSE, RedHat), Windows (good hardware and software support), and MacOS (this can be debated since it has a complex underbelly that can be exploited since it is Unix based). Most of us who use Gentoo (or Linux in general) are not satisfied with the dumbing down with the computer world, and have decided that some of the power should be in our hands.
You want to know the reason Windows is popular? Because it appeals to people who rarely (or simply) use computers and are satisfied with using it and not knowing anything about configuration. That's fine for them. But there will always be people who want something more out of their computers and are willing to learn, and therefore enhance their computing experience. You're obviously not one of them. |
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