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Bad Penguin
Guru
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 507
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 Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Q-collective wrote: | | brazzmonkey wrote: | | Quote: | | When the binary drivers are built the GPL'ed code is included in the binary result, which is a violation." |
!!!
so every nvidia+linux user violates the GPL... |
No, but shipping the code with closed sourced software *does*.
So basically, we just have to pray that the DRI guys come up with something decent for all ATi owners... Nvidia owners are lost. |
Um, the gentoo livecd bundles the binary nvidia drivers, so is gentoo in "violation of the gpl" also? |
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Q-collective
Advocate
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 2071
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Bad Penguin wrote: | | Q-collective wrote: | | brazzmonkey wrote: | | Quote: | | When the binary drivers are built the GPL'ed code is included in the binary result, which is a violation." |
!!!
so every nvidia+linux user violates the GPL... |
No, but shipping the code with closed sourced software *does*.
So basically, we just have to pray that the DRI guys come up with something decent for all ATi owners... Nvidia owners are lost. |
Um, the gentoo livecd bundles the binary nvidia drivers, so is gentoo in "violation of the gpl" also? |
Afaik, those aren't in the kernel. If they are, then yes. |
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gurke
Apprentice
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| how about a bootscript, that emerges the needed driver (and configures it)? that way you only need to bundle the install file on the live cd, which would be no violation of the gpl (as far as i understand). |
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Bad Penguin
Guru
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 507
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Q-collective wrote: | | Bad Penguin wrote: | | Q-collective wrote: | | brazzmonkey wrote: | | Quote: | | When the binary drivers are built the GPL'ed code is included in the binary result, which is a violation." |
!!!
so every nvidia+linux user violates the GPL... |
No, but shipping the code with closed sourced software *does*.
So basically, we just have to pray that the DRI guys come up with something decent for all ATi owners... Nvidia owners are lost. |
Um, the gentoo livecd bundles the binary nvidia drivers, so is gentoo in "violation of the gpl" also? |
Afaik, those aren't in the kernel. If they are, then yes. |
Well, uh, the nvidia drivers are kernel modules so they can't be "in the kernel", but they are on the livecd and do load if I recall correctly. It doesn't really matter, I have yet to see a convincing argument that bundling them on a livecd violates the licensing terms of the linux kernel anyhow. Perhaps I am confused, but didn't Linus slightly modify the terms for situations just like this one? |
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Q-collective
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Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 2071
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Bad Penguin wrote: | | Well, uh, the nvidia drivers are kernel modules so they can't be "in the kernel", but they are on the livecd and do load if I recall correctly. |
I know they are modules, but that really is just a detail: it's linked with the kernel.
| Quote: | | It doesn't really matter, I have yet to see a convincing argument that bundling them on a livecd violates the licensing terms of the linux kernel anyhow. Perhaps I am confused, but didn't Linus slightly modify the terms for situations just like this one? |
Read the fucking license  |
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Bad Penguin
Guru
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 507
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, what a brilliant, illuminating response. Your ability to clearly state such insights really impresses me. Thank you so much for shedding new light on such a widely misunderstood issue. |
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Q-collective
Advocate
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 2071
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Bad Penguin wrote: | | Wow, what a brilliant, illuminating response. Your ability to clearly state such insights really impresses me. Thank you so much for shedding new light on such a widely misunderstood issue. |
Well, if you read it, you wouldn't have said what triggered my response.
Where is this logic failing?
Oh well. |
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taskara
Advocate
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3763
Location: Australia
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madchaz
l33t
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Posts: 993
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:18 am Post subject: |
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It's not in violation of the GPL. And if it was, you wouldn't be the one in trouble, NVIDIA would be, as they make them avalable in the first place.
There is NOTHING in the GPL that dictates what you can put on a CD containing GPL software. It only mendates what MUST be there. (Mainly, an offer to get the source code).
Besides, Linus himself said he didn't see anything wrong with non-gpl modules and non-gpl code running on linux. I can't remember the exact quote, but if you fell up to it, you can dig it out in the kernel mailing list.
Bottom line, chances are the person that sent you that e-mail is just a jealous windows user who couldn't get the cd working
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Someone asked me once if I suffered from mental illness. I told him I enjoyed every second of it.
www.madchaz.com A small candle of a website. As my lab specs on it. |
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taskara
Advocate
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3763
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Hi madchaz,
It's not quite as simple as that And the guy who emailed me (if you read the second paragraph), is a Linux kernel developer.
Cheers,
Chris
_________________
Kororaa install method - have Gentoo up and running quickly and easily, fully automated with an installer! |
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castor_fou
Apprentice
Joined: 23 May 2002
Posts: 249
Location: Clermont-Ferrand, France
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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I was very sad to read from your website Chris that you will not release livecd v0.3 ;(
However I understand your point and there is clearly a need for clarification on this area. You did a great job in gathering all the data and exposing the issue. I guess it should be FSF responsabilities to clarify all this stuff and to give everyone a shared status on the subject. The answer from FSF was interesting but as said, if you need legal advice, take a lawyer (aren't you millionnaire ?)
Maybe we could raise this issue on ubuntu forum, because new versions of ubuntu is using livecd as part of the install process (and I guess ubuntu guys have embedded proprietary drivers in that livecd) so they will be interested in solving this potential issue.
anyway you did a great job thank you |
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burhankhalid
n00b
Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Posts: 3
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| The_P wrote: | Thank you taskara for this very good LiveCD.
I tried it on an IBM Thinkpad T43 with ati mobility X300, it works great. |
I tried this on my T43 with ATI X300, and it has constant lockups. Did you change anything to get it to run? Would really appreciate a clue here. |
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beatryder
Veteran
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 1138
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Won't even boot on my D610 w/ X300
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manouchk
Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 288
Location: Vitória (ES), Brasil
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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works so well on compal CL56! So great!!
I'm just wondering if I'm going to install it on my HD to avoid the maybe complicated pass to modular X with the advantage of XGL which looks very sweet!!  |
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batistuta
Veteran
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 1384
Location: Aachen
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| gurke wrote: | | how about a bootscript, that emerges the needed driver (and configures it)? that way you only need to bundle the install file on the live cd, which would be no violation of the gpl (as far as i understand). |
This wouldn't work well, because you'd need a network connection. That's not always the case in livecds. After all, they are suposed to be liveCDs.
But I have a much better idea. Actually, I have two:
for people with a running system
- you provide two files to download. One is the whole XGL liveCD without the nvidia drivers. The other file is a script that when run, downloads the nvidia drivers and magically creates the liveCD with the whole stuff in it for you to burn later. So Kororaa doesn't come with the nvidia drivers, but the user packs them in order to build his own CD. The user is not allowed under GPL to distribute this liveCD, but he can use it for personal use. Not that tough, is it?
This "builder" script could also come in Windows, Mac, FreeBSD versions...
for people without a running system:
- The "builder script" could be a liveCD itself.
- There could also be two ISOs to download. One is the XGL live demo without the nvidia drivers, and CD2 the nvidia drivers. The liveCD would prompt the user to change CD. Or to download from the network.
My whole point is, that there are quite a few solutions out there to circumvent to problem. And I believe that compared to what Kororaa already does, implementing one of these shouldn't be to tough.
But please don't stop the project, it absolutely rocks!!! |
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