Looking at getting an X2, unsure about CPU cooling

Mad Merlin · Veteran Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 1155

I'm looking at getting a new desktop system, I've decided on most parts, but I'm still looking at my options for CPU cooling. I'm looking to minimize noise first and foremost, and I don't plan to overclock anything. Now, I understand that the Sonata II has a "heat duct" design which can help reduce noise and heat around the processor and video card, but if I choose to use the heat duct, that precludes the use of some of the larger CPU cooler designs, and I would like to use the heat duct. So, having said that, does anyone have a Sonata II case with an X2, and what CPU coolers are quiet and effective at the job, while still fitting with the heat duct? Or, alternatively, how does the stock cooling on the X2 perform? I know that they're not particularly hot chips, but I will be pushing this system pretty hard regularly (running Gentoo of course). Here's the list of parts I'm looking at right now:

motherboard - ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=3989
processor - Athlon 64 X2 4200 http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=3572
hard drive - 320 gig Western Digital SATA (WD3200JD) http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=3816
video card - Asus® Extreme EN6600GT/HTD - GeForce™ 6600GT GPU w/256Mb DDR3 & PCI Express x16 http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=3996
case/PSU - Sonata II http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=3650
memory: Corsair TWINX2048-3200C2 (2G total) http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=3303
dvd burner: Plextor PX-740A http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=3653
dvd drive: http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=835
floppy: http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=3857

Finally, any comments on Linux compatibility with the above? From what I've seen, the ASUS Nforce 4 motherboards are generally pretty Linux compatible, but I'd like to be sure. Also, I'll be stealing a SB Live! from my old system to use as the sound card, as the onboard audio doesn't have hardware mixing, I also know the SB Live! works perfectly. Otherwise, I don't think there's any issues with the other components in that sense.

Any comments, suggestions?
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Flipperrr · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject:

Hi, I have a Sonata II with a X2. Currently I'm not using the "heat duct", but the X2 is very cool with the AMD stock cooler (doesn't go over 40C). If you want a quiet system though, you should probably buy a zalman cooler (or something) for your X2 since the AMD cooler is not really silent.

overkll · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject:

Mad Merlin · Veteran Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 1155

Mad Merlin · Veteran Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 1155

I'm now looking at the Zalman CNPS7700-Cu for heatsink/fan.
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Flipperrr · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject:

Yes, the power supply is very quiet (the fan is silent and only starts spinning when nessecarry). Also, I have an Asus A8N-E mobo, and the chipset fan is quite a noisemaker, so it's propably wise to make sure your mobo doesn't have one, or replace it with a silent solution.
Btw, if you have a problem with a noisy chipset fan on your asus mobo, just contact asus and they'll send you a new one for free!

bexamous2 · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 80

The quietest heatsink is th eScythe Ninja heatsink... thing is huge but it works. Put a Nexus or Yateloon 120mm fan on it and you're fine.. really the nexus at 12v is more than enough and its ~20dba. The heatduct things don't do crap. If you want your cpu fan/heatsink to be <20dba get a ninja and a nexus fan. (or yateloon which is ~23dba I think... spins at 1200rpm rather than 1000, both made by same company and are exactly the same otherwise.)

Fanless powersupplies arn't great.. they rely on alot of case airflow to keep them cool. Seasonic S12 line is imo the best powersupplies out there, I think many would agree to that. They're very effiicent ~80% and (therefore) create little heat. Fan generally is ~800rpm, I never hear mine, ever.

I'd go to www.silentpcreview.com and just look at the review for the Ninja heatsink if you want something nice... alot of people there actually replace the fan on the zalman heatsink because its too loud.

I say go for a mobo with a heatpiped NB cooler, I got a a8n-sli premium and it's nice. Thing does get hot but have had no problems. I hate mobo fans as they always break, and often come broke heh.

Ninja review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article251-page1.html
I think with a 7v nexus fan it'll be <17dba actually (i don't think they can measure under this)... which still is going to be more than enough cooling for a stock 4200.

S12 review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article226-page1.html
Have to be using 200watts before it ever hits 20dba... generally is going to be 18dba.

Eidi · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:11 am Post subject:

I recommend going for an X2 4400+, I think that doubled cache really helps with compiling, but to be honest, I'm not sure. The stock cooler I got with my X2 is pretty heavy duty, has heat pipes and all, and I've heard they got a newer, better one. Stock cooling should be fine if you don't want to overclock.

Flipperrr · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject:

I've read that the performance differences with Athlon 64s working at the same clock frequency but with differing L2 cache sizes, differ in performance by only 5% in most cases. The question then is, is 5% extra performance worth the difference in price between a X2 4200+ and a 4400+. It wasn't (IMO) when I bought my 4200 two months ago.

deepspace9 · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject:

The stock coller is fairly good. It's silent, until it's summer and you start compiling a lot (of doing some other intensive stuff). Then it spinns up and gets very loud. I don't know about the new coolers, I guess they are a bit better.

Since I really don't like any sound, I went for watercooling, and I really like it!
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Athlon 64 X2 3800+
MSI K8N Neo4 FI
Geil Ultra-X PC3200 400MHz CL2 5-2-2 DDR 2x512 GB
Asus 6600 Silence GFX
Watercooling (I just love the silence

)

Mad Merlin · Veteran Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 1155

It looks like there's just been a price drop in the X2 CPUs, the 4200+ is now listed at $430, a $55 dollar drop from before!

http://www.pccanada.com/inventory.asp?cat=CPUS

As of now, the 4400+ is $120 more, which almost 28% more, for what is supposed to be a relatively small performance difference. I decided against the beefed up cache version early on as I discovered that the extra cache makes almost no difference in most cases. I think the 4200+ makes more sense now than before. As for the motherboard's northbridge cooling, as I mentioned before, that particular motherboard does use a heat pipe rather than a fan, which is one of the main reasons I chose it. I've also swapped out the previous video card for the "Silencer" version, which brings me to ask, deepspace9, do you have this card:

http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=4143

Or is it one of the less souped up versions? If it is that one, how is it?

I've heard mixed things about the stock cooler, so I think I'd rather go with an upgraded cooler. I figure it can't possibly be worse, anyways.
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get sirius · Guru Joined: 27 Apr 2002 Posts: 316 Location: Madison, WI

I'm running an Opteron 180 (dual core socket 939 @ 2.4GHz) on an Asus A8N-SLI Premium with the Thermalright XP-120. It's a physically large heatpipe cooler, but very light weight. With AS5 TIM the cpu temp stays around 35C, and this with both cores running foldingathome 24/7. I cannot recommend these coolers highly enough. Even got two more for my Tyan K8W running two Opteron 252s. One important caveat: the Arctic Silver 5 is terrific when the base of the cooler is <just> aluminum. When the AS5 has to interface with copper, the performance nosedives! I found this out the hard way, previously trying Zalman, Thermaltake, Swiftech, and stock AMD coolers - all ran >45C full load. I have since heard that silver-based TIMs are great on alum, but that copper cools better with AS Ceramique.

Put a quiet 120mm fan on the above and you'll love it

.

gilesjuk · Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:51 pm Post subject:

I upgraded from a 3200+ to a 3500+ venice and then to an X2, all along I have used a Zalman cooler and had no problems.

I'm now using a Shuttle SN25P and it's quieter on the whole than my last system was. Main problem is I have 3 hard disks in it and they oscillate a bit.
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wantilles · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:21 am Post subject:

All 939 AMD K8 CPUs are very cool CPUs.

The stock coolers that come with the boxed version of these CPUs are more than adequate.

Originlabs · n00b Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 5

I have recently purchased an X2 4400 and an Asus A8N32-SLI. They are installed in my Sonata2.

Once thing to consider when looking at cpu coolers is the direction the fan blows air. I initally looked at the zalman 7700-cu, but this blows air sideways rather than down. This is not a problem on most boards, but the A8N32-Sli / A8NSLI-Premium, ect, use passive cooling for the motherboard components, and these are not cooled effectively with a passive heatsink / 7700-cu.

I personally opted for a thermalright SI-120, with a nexus 120mm fan. My cpu temperatues under load are around 42 degrees, although the motherboard temperatues have dropped by 4-5 degrees. The system is for all intents silent.

As bexamous2 mentioned, www.silentpcreview.com is an excellent source of information. However, the Ninja heatsink, whilst excellent, will nto adequately cool the motherboard, even with a fan attatched (it blows sideways). Oh, and the ACAG (Advanced Chassis Air Guide) from the Sonata2 wont fit with a large cpu cooler installed.

Mad Merlin · Veteran Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 1155

Originlabs · n00b Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 5

It's not really about airflow around the case. In fact, a fan blowing parallel to the cpu would exhaust directly out of the case (via the 120mm case fan), which is certainly desirable. The main fact is with the passivley cooled asus boards, you need airflow blowing down around the cpu socket to effectively cool the mosfet heatsinks. The mosfet heatsink is also what cools the nforce chip, as it's connected to it via a heatpipe.

You can see better on this picutre http://uk.asus.com/prog_content/middle_enlargement.aspx?model=744. The copper heatsink above the cpu socket and the silver heatsink to the right both need to be cooled. Asus mention this in the manual, and supply a small clip-on fan to connect to the heatsink if water cooling is used. As you can hopefully see, using a zalman 7700-cu will not provide any airflow to the motherboard.

The Thermalright SI-120 actually overhangs directly over the copper heatsink, providing direct cooling from the cpufan.

Hope this helps,

Matt

piercey · Apprentice Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 182

My X2 runs at a super cool 22C when idle with the "Zalman CNPS7700-Cu". It even comes with the fanmate 2 which allows you to change the RPM of the fan from 1900RPM to about 900RPM making it nearly silent. Highly recommended. My PC is nearly the exact same setup as what you're choosing also. As mentioned above, the Asus a8n sli is meant to use passove cooling, this is not true, it uses a fan for its chipset, which in the earlier models was quite loud (running at 8k rpm). The latest generation however is much quieter and depending on the case not audible.
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Mad Merlin · Veteran Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 1155

piercey · Apprentice Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 182

Oops, didn't notice the 32 there! With the heatpipe you can expect a temp usually over 10C more than what you'd get with the fan, but I'm sure that's stable enough, it seemed to work fine on the Premium board.
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[ 2008.0 X86 E8400 @ 4.0Ghz ]

get sirius · Guru Joined: 27 Apr 2002 Posts: 316 Location: Madison, WI

longship

Mad Merlin · Veteran Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 1155

The passively cooled Northbridge is definitely one of the most important features of the motherboard for me, thus I'm essentially narrowed down to the Premium or the A8N32. Right now, the Premium is only $45 less, and that little amount of money saved now means that I'd lose the potential to run SLI in the future, which is something I'm interested in, even if not immediately.

As for the stock CPU heatsink/fan, I've heard from some that it is relatively loud, and thusly would rather go for an upgraded (and quieter) heatsink/fan. Furthermore, the Thermalright SI-120 that I'm now looking at appears to be more suited to cooling the radiator for the Northbridge than the stock cooler, which is probably more of a concern than the CPU itself in this case.

I don't plan to do Windows or RAID, so hardware vs software RAID is a moot point.

I may look into that Lian-Li case, but I suspect I'll stick with the Sonata II.

Also, a final note, I've just noticed that that particular motherboard *does* apparently have SATA II support, rather than only SATA I as I originally thought. This means that I'd do the obvious and choose the SATA II version of the same drive, rather than the SATA I as originally planned. Can anyone confirm that this board works well with SATA II drives?
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longship · Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:07 am Post subject:

longshot · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 90

The Antec P150 is worth having a look at. I believe it was designed in conjunction with people from Silent PC. High efficiency power supply, sound deadening rubber on the inside of the case, and optionally, rubber bands for holding disks.

I have an athlon 64 3500 based system. I found the stock fan too noisy when running, and put in an Artic Cooling Freezer 64. Normally it doesnt spin at all - using the bios I increased the temperature to 40 C before it starts, and usually temp doesnt get to that, except when emerging or gaming. When it isnt spinning I can hear the other fans in my case (graphics card (6600 GT), northbridge, case) - but at a very low level which I dont mind. Even when the CPU fan is spinning it isnt that loud.

I also have a Sonata I 2.8 GHz P4 based system. I replaced the graphics card fan with a heatsink cooler, and the motherboard had no northbridge fan. Also used an arctic cooling cpu fan. Overall the Sonata based system is a fair bit louder than the the P150 system, noticeable enough for my wife to remind me that I said part of the aim of the new computer was getting rid of the old one

I should point out it is summer here and we are getting some 35-40+C temperatures outside, 25-32C ambient inside depending on how many consecutive hot days we've had, whether the sun is directly on the back of the house and whether the computer is running loaded. No central air conditioning. Ambient temperature does make a difference to noise and cooling.

As to aesthetics I much prefer the look of the P150. It was about 1/3 more expensive than a Sonata II, but I was happy with the trade-offs - and in particular I dont think the Sonata II would have been as quiet.

Getting a high efficiency power supply from the noise and heat point of view is likely worth it, depending on how much heavy use you make of your computer. Seasonic (mentioned above) is one of the few companies who have certifed 80plus (http://www.80plus.org/) efficient power supplies at this stage. Antec claim the Neo 430 power supply in P150 is up to 85 % efficient, but the review at silent PC found it didnt actually make it (although using 220-240 V power it may). The fact that it is bundled with the case makes it cheaper than case+power supply, and seasonic power supplies are hard to get where I am.

I mucked around with frequency scaling, saved about 10 W (from 85 W to 75 W, not much in the system (1 disk, 1 graphics card, 1 GB memory) dropping down to the lowest frequency. I am yet to get suspend working. And turning the system off, well, just cant do that