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What exactly happened to stage 1? And bootstrapping?
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lnxz
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Afaik bootstrapping is only required for stage 1.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merged Aman9090's thread ("What the hell happened to stage 1 & 2?") with this one.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

can't say I read the whole thread but I want to say if they want to discontinue stage 1 & 2 they need to not break the stage3 tarballs, like they did with the athlonXP and a couple of others, for the last release. That disc shouldn't have been released without athlonXP and Pentium4 tarballs, the tarball on the disk was crap because it set the wrong CHOST for those system's. I believe it was set to i386. I have an i686 athlonXP system. If they are going to drop support for internet install's and earlier stages they need to make sure that everything people will need is on the disk.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XenoTerraCide wrote:
can't say I read the whole thread but I want to say if they want to discontinue stage 1 & 2 they need to not break the stage3 tarballs, like they did with the athlonXP and a couple of others, for the last release. That disc shouldn't have been released without athlonXP and Pentium4 tarballs, the tarball on the disk was crap because it set the wrong CHOST for those system's. I believe it was set to i386. I have an i686 athlonXP system. If they are going to drop support for internet install's and earlier stages they need to make sure that everything people will need is on the disk.

Your ignorance shines through; you really should have read through this thread, or at least carefully read the relevant GWN, ML announcements, etc. :P

They will still release stage 1 and 2 tarballs, but the default installation method is stage 3. Accordingly, the stage 1/2 installation instructions have been moved to the Gentoo FAQ.

That's been discussed time and time again in this thread (threads? now that they're merged). Stage 1/2 are really only useful if you intend to open up an editor and change bootstrap.sh before installing. From releng's point of view, stage 1/2 were just workarounds for stager, which was the program to generate tarballs, and it was broken at the time. releng no longer uses stager to generate tarballs, which is why there's no real need for stage 1/2 unless you're cooking up something truly esoteric.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read half of the first page. but reading 13 pages was not what I wanted to do. I almost alway do a stage 3, but if they insist on making stage 3 the default they should not be breaking the stage 3 builds. that's my point. They also seem to be phasing out using the net. once again if they are going to break the build's so the on disk stuff isn't correct for your architecture then they shouldn't do this.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XenoTerraCide wrote:
I read half of the first page. but reading 13 pages was not what I wanted to do. I almost alway do a stage 3, but if they insist on making stage 3 the default they should not be breaking the stage 3 builds. that's my point. They also seem to be phasing out using the net. once again if they are going to break the build's so the on disk stuff isn't correct for your architecture then they shouldn't do this.

It's maybe 20 minutes of your time, you know. The stage 3 tarballs aren't broken anymore AFAIK, not since 2005.1-r1 fixed outstanding issues. Stage 3 really is the better idea. Especially since releng has made some nice changes in what the 2006.0 tarballs are compiled with, but that's for another thread. :)

And where on earth have you gotten this silly idea that "they seem to be phasing out using the net"? The stages on the CD are the same stages on the mirrors.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

funny my 2005.1-r1 disk doesn't have a single athlon-xp stage on it. most of the network parts of the install were probably required for stage1/2 but I notice doing an emerge sync is no longer in the manual. It's merely a hunch I have nothing to back it up, but it seems to be the way things are progressing and when i say phasing out the net. I mean using the internet for an install. Seem's like they don't want it done so much anymore.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and I agree stage3 is better. until gcc-3.4 is out on the disc's I end up recompiling the system anyway. but they need to put all the appropriate tarballs on the disk OR start making ISO's for certain processor's not just arch's. Have a (P4 disk and athlon-xp disk, etc.) the difference on the disk? the tarball.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XenoTerraCide wrote:
but I notice doing an emerge sync is no longer in the manual.


Which manual is that? Please post a link.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there used to be an option to emerge sync http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2005.1/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=5 in this chapter as opposed to unpacking the snapshot. but it was only if you were doing a network install. many people had problem's because they didn't realise they couldn't do both. I don't remember when that was removed. The first time I installed gentoo was from a 1.4 disk. but I think it was there in 2004.x.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XenoTerraCide wrote:
there used to be an option to emerge sync http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2005.1/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=5 in this chapter as opposed to unpacking the snapshot. but it was only if you were doing a network install. many people had problem's because they didn't realise they couldn't do both. I don't remember when that was removed. The first time I installed gentoo was from a 1.4 disk. but I think it was there in 2004.x.


But remember this:

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2005.1/

"These handbooks are released together with the Gentoo Linux releases and contain the necessary installation instructions to install Gentoo Linux 2005.1 without an internet connection."
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do and it didn't used to be that way. This is my point. Is there one to be used with an internet connection?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XenoTerraCide wrote:
Is there one to be used with an internet connection?


Here are both of them:

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml

Maybe they should have more describing names. This is not the first time people think that "2005.1 whatever" is the guide to use as it looks like the most up to date guide. I think that "Networkless" should be emphasized even more. And the "normal" handbook should also have 2005.1 in its name to prevent this quite common misunderstanding.


Last edited by Paapaa on Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6#doc_chap2
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes I could have linked to either one. neither have an emerge sync that I can see. At least not chapter 5. Maybe it was later, doubtful, as it was an alternate to using the snapshot. I just looked for the first manual link I saw.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XenoTerraCide wrote:
yes I could have linked to either one. neither have an emerge sync that I can see. At least not chapter 5. Maybe it was later, doubtful, as it was an alternate to using the snapshot. I just looked for the first manual link I saw.


Nope, it is there as psyqil already posted:

psyqil wrote:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6#doc_chap2
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm... I thought it was in an earlier chapter. I don't remember doing that on my last install... and yes I see he beat me to my post. I can email a friend and ask him if he still has his doc's from 2004. Because I know it used to be one or the other. I won't waste his time though. Unless necessary. seem's I stand corrected anyhow. I'm not too proud to admit being wrong. Though I know it used to be different.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XenoTerraCide wrote:
hmm... I thought it was in an earlier chapter. I don't remember doing that on my last install... and yes I see he beat me to my post. I can email a friend and ask him if he still has his doc's from 2004. Because I know it used to be one or the other. I won't waste his time though. Unless necessary. seem's I stand corrected anyhow. I'm not too proud to admit being wrong. Though I know it used to be different.


Actually you can verify it yourself. Older handbooks are also available here:

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fine from current
Quote:
You should now update your Portage tree to the latest version. emerge --sync does this for you.
from 2004.2 Chap 6
Quote:
If you haven't installed a Portage snapshot in the previous chapter, you must download a recent Portage tree from the Internet. emerge --sync does this for you. Other users should skip this and continue with Configuring the USE variable.
If you haven't implies you haven't necessarily done it already. But I did have the chapter wrong. It has been a long time and I have never really paid attention to that. Also that version of the handbook include's stage 1 and 2.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

also this
Quote:
5.d. Installing Portage

Network or No Network?

If you don't have a working network connection, you have to install a Portage snapshot provided by one of our LiveCDs. This automatically assumes that you are installing from a stage3 tarball (as it is the only tarball supported for networkless installations). If you want to use prebuilt packages later on to speed up the installation, you must use a Portage snapshot from the LiveCD. Other users will download a fully updated Portage tree using emerge in the next chapter.

Continue with the appropriate part:

* Installing a Portage Snapshot and Source Code from LiveCD (for networkless installations or GRP installations)
* Configuring the Compile Options (all other installation methods)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Stage 1 on the horizon, and sinking... Reply with quote

In another post:

Rafael Pinto wrote:

...

Other way would be do a stage1 instalation, which is now unsupported by the Gentoo staff.

...


Why is this? It seems that the stage 1 would be the best way to install a fully customized system instead of doing multiple emerge -uD world 's. Could any clarify for me? Or point me to the article explaining what the deal is?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There you go, dude! :)

Switched to stage3 as the default installation method

Quote:

(...)the Release Engineering team asked for the change, as the number of users increased, who messed up their base-system due to unrecommended changes during a stage1 or stage2 install or not following the handbook completely.


But I totaly agree with you... As soon as I got broadband connection I installed Gentoo using stage 1, and got the most functionality, using the minimum hard disk space!

I guess the problem is that most people think that printing the handbook is optional, and as soon as they start on stage 1, they can't stop to open the Gentoo Handbook webpage. :wink: :D


Last edited by Rafael Pinto on Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always done the stage1 myself. What's the point in optimizing only part of your system if your going to do it do it right from the begining. Those that can't follow directions deserve to learn the hard way.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rafael Pinto wrote:
I guess the problem is that most people think that printing the handbook is optional, and as soon as they start on stage 1, they can't stop to open the Gentoo Handbook webpage. :wink: :D


Sure you can! Just CTRL-ALT-2 to switch terminals and go to the docs directory on the CD, find the html version and use lynx to view index.html.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merged above three posts here.
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