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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
Evangelion wrote:
Is it just me, or is 2.6/3.0 becoming a REALLY good kernel :D?


It fixes most of the things that really sucks about 2.4 - just read about BIO or the scheduler and you will notice incredible improvements.

This small tweak is nothing compared to the underlying changes in 2.6 - I mean they basically ripped out the guts on of 2.4 and replaced it with stuff that actually works, and is easier to understand.


I know, I have kept my eye on the kernel-developement. New VM, new threading-subsystem, new BIO, new scheduler, prelinking... All in all, it looks great ;)!
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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CoronaLover wrote:
Andrew Morton's latest mm patchset:
http://lkml.org/archive/2003/3/13/31/index.html

prelink? huh? :D


Quote:
This means that large cache-cold executables start significantly faster.
Launching X11+KDE+mozilla goes from 23 seconds to 16. Starting OpenOffice
seems to be 2x to 3x faster, and starting Konqueror maybe 3x faster too.
Interesting.


8O

"interesting" = understatement of the year! What happen when you combine other tweaks (like prelinking) to that?
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aardvark
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CoronaLover wrote:
Andrew Morton's latest mm patchset:
http://lkml.org/archive/2003/3/13/31/index.html

prelink? huh? :D


Wowsers! 3x faster starting Openoffice is exactly what I need!!
After I try this bk things I'll try the mm patch too... :)

BTW, In the kernel config there is something called "Numa memory allocation Support"
What would I need that for? (Dunno what it is)
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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aardvark wrote:
CoronaLover wrote:
Andrew Morton's latest mm patchset:
http://lkml.org/archive/2003/3/13/31/index.html

prelink? huh? :D


Wowsers! 3x faster starting Openoffice is exactly what I need!!
After I try this bk things I'll try the mm patch too... :)

BTW, In the kernel config there is something called "Numa memory allocation Support"
What would I need that for? (Dunno what it is)


You don't need it if you don't have a NUMA-machine (and I trust that you donät have one ;))
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evangelion wrote:
Lovechild wrote:
Evangelion wrote:
Is it just me, or is 2.6/3.0 becoming a REALLY good kernel :D?


It fixes most of the things that really sucks about 2.4 - just read about BIO or the scheduler and you will notice incredible improvements.

This small tweak is nothing compared to the underlying changes in 2.6 - I mean they basically ripped out the guts on of 2.4 and replaced it with stuff that actually works, and is easier to understand.


I know, I have kept my eye on the kernel-developement. New VM, new threading-subsystem, new BIO, new scheduler, prelinking... All in all, it looks great ;)!


Prelinking isn't a feature in the kernel really, it's a glibc feature - it just needs some elf changes in the kernel which have been standard since 2.4.something.
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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
Prelinking isn't a feature in the kernel really, it's a glibc feature - it just needs some elf changes in the kernel which have been standard since 2.4.something.


D'oH! I meant pre-empt, not prelinking :D! I know that prelinking is not a Kernel-feature
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,
Has anyone tried the mm-sources+mm6 pacth yet?Do I still need the option "elevator=CFQ" as boot option in order to use CFQ scheduler,which is meant do be excellent for desktop environment? What about the pcmcia issues? Anyone got it working yet?

regards,
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'm running the patched kernel now and have some questions:
-Under what circumstances should I "feel" the speed increase? (only during compiling or overall?)
-Is there a setting in menuconfig to enable all this speed that I may not have seen?
-Will the speed increase be more or less apparent on different CPU's?
(I have Duron pre-morgan)
-Do I need to pass special boot time kernel parameters?

Overall I just don't see many improvements over my normal gentoo 2.4.20 kernel. According to dmesg I am running 2.5.64-bk7 now. (not bk6 but it's successor)

Oh btw, I am running with gcc 3.2.1 (gentoo 14 rc2)
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Lowspirit
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, it's not any magic insane speed fix, it's labeled as a "interactivity" improvement, so for example compiles etc in the background doesn't impair responsivness as heavily as before.

Second of all, the bk (all above bk4) have some heavy regressions in performance, I don't know how the status is on bk7 but bk4-6 had noticable decreased performance on some places (launching your basic divx movie that usually take around 1-2sec could chew on for 5-7sec on bk5 compared to virgin .64 with only linus+ingo patch). So either wait for .65 or patch virgin .64 with the patch linked in a post above. mm6 also contains this patch without the regressions I noticed in the bk releases.

The way mm6 is awsome is it really makes good use of my RAM, launch speeds are through the roof since it throws as much stuff as possible into RAM. Some stuff really start 2-3x faster, but on the other hand it's impossible to watch movies due to this (they freeze after playing awhile).

And yes, AS scheduler is still default so you have to put elevator=cfq in your grubbie config to make it use it. I use AS on my distcc server but as you say, CFQ is alot nicer to desktop systems even though througput is somewhat reduced with it at the cost of better responsivness (I can live with that).
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Last edited by Lowspirit on Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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helmers
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any chance for getting at least some of this backported/patched into 2.4? Because like another poster here, I really can't live without my Audigy2 soundcard. :wink:

Which kernel from /usr/portage/sys-kernel/ is best if all you want is desktop responsiveness? (except 2.5, that is)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Help a clueless newbie! Reply with quote

daen1543 wrote:
Following the advice of all the enthusiastic posts in this thread, I risked to install the newest kernel (2.5.64 with ingo-linus.patch). However, I can't get the sound to work. Do I need to compile the emu10k1 alsa driver into the kernel? Doing
Code:
env ALSA_CARDS='emu10k1' emerge alsa-driver
per directions in the Gentoo ALSA Guide gives me compile errors :(
Code:
/usr/src/linux/include/asm/irq.h:16:25: irq_vectors.h: no such file or directory


Swishy, when you drag the konqueror window across the desktop, is it still jerky? I'm trying to figure out if this is what most people experience, i.e. not smooth like in Windows...

Other than that, I don't notice any problems with this kernel - it even noticed my full 512Mb of RAM! (See https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=38858&highlight=)


Almost no jerking at all now .....slightly noticable if you grab it and move the mouse HEAPS as fast as you can but as nice as "cough" explorer when dragging as you would normally :)

Cheers
Dale.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Sob*

2.5.64-mm6 and 5 can't start X here, the display goes blank and the machine then hangs..
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very interested in trying out this patch, however the many comments I've read regarding IDE being farked in the 2.5.x kernel makes me hesitant. Can anyone tell me (or point out where I can find information) about the implications of this? Is it risky to run the 2.5.x kernel? I'd rather not have to do a reinstall =/
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
*Sob*

2.5.64-mm6 and 5 can't start X here, the display goes blank and the machine then hangs..

What are you running in the way of hardware ???

Cheers
Dale.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Help a clueless newbie! Reply with quote

daen1543 wrote:
env ALSA_CARDS='emu10k1' emerge alsa-driver
per directions in the Gentoo ALSA Guide gives me compile errors :(


the gentoo alsa doc only applies to <= 2.4 kernels. The kernel developers decided to put alsa directly into the kernel (which I personally believe to be a good thing) however, the configuration has changed since then - I would really apreciate a link to a convenient alsa-kernel-2.5 howto

did anybody take a look at gkrellm while loading mozilla? I know this is an interactivity patch and shouldnt affect such behavior, but I used to load mozilla having about 60% cpu load. Now its a little faster and the load jumps between 99 and 100 %.

thanks

PS: csnyder: isnt it great? I was talking about my vaios alps-glide point (ps2 touchpad)... took more than a second to change enlightenment sreens before switching to 2.5...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ever since I did a complete reinstall using RC3 I have had stellar performance using CK4 patchset. This is current info:
Code:
[root@Athena] [~]
> uname -a
Linux Athena 2.4.20-ck4 #5 Tue Mar 11 00:45:39 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
[root@Athena] [~]
> uptime
 18:05:37  up  1:05,  6 users,  load average: 7.36, 7.45, 6.58


On an Athlon 1.4, with no audio skips (xmms) and a responsive mozilla. Every development kernel has buckled for me under this load and proven to be a downgrade from what I already have. Am I missing something about setting up these kernels? Earlier today I compiled 2.5.64 with the bk8 patch. But it was the same story for me. Maybe I used the golden options and settings for everything, I don't know.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swishy wrote:
Lovechild wrote:
*Sob*

2.5.64-mm6 and 5 can't start X here, the display goes blank and the machine then hangs..

What are you running in the way of hardware ???

Cheers
Dale.


Athlon XP 1600+
Soltek 75-KAV(I think it called) Via 266 based
512 megs of ram
Soundblaster Live! (emu10k1)
Radeon 7500

Works beautifully with mm2 and mm1, also with the bk patches. I think it's dislikes the locking changes that where made in mm5.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vazagi wrote:
I'm very interested in trying out this patch, however the many comments I've read regarding IDE being farked in the 2.5.x kernel makes me hesitant. Can anyone tell me (or point out where I can find information) about the implications of this? Is it risky to run the 2.5.x kernel? I'd rather not have to do a reinstall =/


IDE is far less "farked" in 2.5 than in 2.4
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
Swishy wrote:
Lovechild wrote:
*Sob*

2.5.64-mm6 and 5 can't start X here, the display goes blank and the machine then hangs..

What are you running in the way of hardware ???

Cheers
Dale.


Athlon XP 1600+
Soltek 75-KAV(I think it called) Via 266 based
512 megs of ram
Soundblaster Live! (emu10k1)
Radeon 7500

Works beautifully with mm2 and mm1, also with the bk patches. I think it's dislikes the locking changes that where made in mm5.


Damn :? ......

Cheers
Dale.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone is interested...
I try to find the kernel with the lowest latency to use my Laptop with audio software (jack/ardour/protux etc).
So now and then I do a latency-test and try to compare different kernels and so on...
Here are three results:

http://hometown.aol.de/wimdk/lowlat_benchmarks/index.html

I will test the coming 2.5.x releases, too, maybe some of you would also like to give this test a try.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
*Sob*

2.5.64-mm6 and 5 can't start X here, the display goes blank and the machine then hangs..


Did you try the deadline elevator? CFQ and AS have bugs.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how many bk's are they gonna make?! lol i was thinking .65 would be out sooner, I just cant wait.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CoronaLover wrote:
Lovechild wrote:
*Sob*

2.5.64-mm6 and 5 can't start X here, the display goes blank and the machine then hangs..


Did you try the deadline elevator? CFQ and AS have bugs.


Yup...

http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0303.1/1633.html

I'm not alone, other Gentoo' have problems too :)

it seems to be a problem with with the linus.patch (I've been compiling kernels nonstop to find the troublesome patch.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would guess that Linus is trying to tidy it up since this kernel has attracted so much attention and lots are going to try it. This my hope at least, I am in the same boat as everyone else, in waiting until it is released.

Oh well, I guess I'll have time to play since my team just lost in their conference tournament and I'll have nothing else to watch all weekend..
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm, is there any trick to getting NVidia support under the 2.5.64 patched kernel? I've been having some problems, I've symlinked usr/src/linux to the new kernel src and I've installed module-init-tools and there *seems* to be a NVdriver file generated. Should I be using the 41.xx series or am I doing something else wrong?

That damn Nvidia-kernel module always causes me so much hassle.....

Vag
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