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Are you in favor a school policy which allows swearing?
Hell Yes!
59%
 59%  [ 34 ]
No.
35%
 35%  [ 20 ]
We don't have school where I live.
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 57

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Kai Hvatum
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:45 am    Post subject: New UK school policy allows swearing Reply with quote

Maybe Cokehabit or another UK citizen could comment on this. I personally found the idea a bit amusing!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9132814/
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose I could go either way.

There's nothing wrong with saying fuck. It's a word that many real people use. Yeah, it's vulgar, but sometimes it fits well.

However, I wouldn't encourage its use (which these people aren't). It's impolite, and inappropriate in some places. Using it in formal conversation would probably get you labeled as unprofessional/unrefined. However, that's true of any colloquialism.

I could see this encouraging kids to swear (I need to get my 5 fucks in!). However, overall, maybe it'll decrease their swearing. If it's not so taboo, it's not as exciting, so they won't do it as much.

In any case, I don't see what's wrong with a little swearing. People who single out words as being bad in themselves are silly. If I'm yelling insulting things at you, how exactly is it better if I don't say "fuck?" However, I'd probably mark it down in papers and stuff, since it's not really appropriate there, just like leet speak and most slang.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, actually this kind of policy is the worst mistake that can be done, as it teaches nothing of the issue itself but succeeds to give the kids totally false impression of how things are (ie. swearing is tolerated in little amounts even in wrong places). Instead what would be right was to totally allow swearing and teach the kids when and where and how it is appropriate to swear. For most this kind of knowledge should seem like obvious, but strangely enough, nowadays it isn't, so perhaps it needs to be taught at schools.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there is nothing more annoying than overuse of a swear word. But it's pretty fun to say one every once in a while.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: New UK school policy allows swearing Reply with quote

Kai Hvatum wrote:
Maybe Cokehabit or another UK citizen could comment on this. I personally found the idea a bit amusing!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9132814/


It's insane, we're losing control in schools as it stands - regardless as to it being 'just a word', it's about respect. Look at society at the moment, now picture things twenty or so years from now. Toilet, down. Comes to mind.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mum isn't going to stand for this. She's a teacher and her favourite phrase is "you do realise it's illegal to swear in a public place?"

Hell I remember when I was at junior school and a policeman came in to tell us exactly that. What's he gonna do now huh?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't stand using swear words, simply because there are better words to convey my meaning. If I use them often in place of other words, I start to sound ignorant. With that said, there is nothing wrong with swear words. If I yell out "dagnabbit" when I stub my toe, the word has effectivly no different meaning than if I had yelled "damn it." People get far too worked up about the dictionary definition of a word and not the conotation it is being used in. I think very good points were made in the Penn and Teller episode on swearing (1st season). In that there was a driving instructor who was against using curse words or gestures. Instead of giving people the finger, shoe would make a complicated gesture with both hands called the turkey (really funny to see). I fail to see how this is any different than the alternative, isn't the emotion the same? Isn't the meaning the same?

William Shakespeare wrote:
’Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself though, not a Montague.
What’s Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O! be some other name:
What’s in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call’d,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name;
And for that name, which is no part of thee,
Take all myself.


There you go, you god-damned bastards.


Last edited by opqdan on Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: New UK school policy allows swearing Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
Kai Hvatum wrote:
Maybe Cokehabit or another UK citizen could comment on this. I personally found the idea a bit amusing!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9132814/


It's insane, we're losing control in schools as it stands - regardless as to it being 'just a word', it's about respect. Look at society at the moment, now picture things twenty or so years from now. Toilet, down. Comes to mind.


Is it cursing that causes the downfall of society or the downfall of society that causes cursing?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a bit stupid, because there's plenty of places where swearing is not tolerated, so if people don't get used to the idea that swearing is unacceptable, then how are they going to cope in the big wide world? I'm not sure banks and shops will be happy with people swearing every other word. Well, more so than uncouth people do anyway.

As someone funnier than me once said:

Quote:
Profanity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And people want to talk about fucking American schools(me included of course :lol: )

woohoo I get to say the f* word 4 more times!

Can gentoo forums get a 5 times trolling pass per day?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who cares about "fuck" in the UK? How often are they allowed to call their teacher a cunt per hour?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like this is going to be a game next school year. Let's see how many times you can slip in a naughty word without getting it counted against your swearing tally, and see which students can get their full allotment of swearing every day.

At least that's what would happen over here...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: New UK school policy allows swearing Reply with quote

opqdan wrote:

Is it cursing that causes the downfall of society or the downfall of society that causes cursing?


It isn't cursing - nothing wrong with that in the appropriate setting, which isn't a classroom. I was raised fairly strictly with regards to this, don't swear when woman are present etc.

Swearing in a classroom environment, is effectively sticking two fingers up (literally I suppose in this case) at the teacher - as I said a lack of respect for the teacher, those around you and in some respect yourself.

I'd sort the problem out with schooling fairly quickly, the same for society as a whole. My views however, may seem a bit harsh to others, so I shall stop here.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vonhelmet wrote:
As someone funnier than me once said:

Quote:
Profanity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers.
:D Good one!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm against any law that stiffles free speech, take those tossers who want people to use dang instead of damn and other such pointless censorships - now they don't want me to be a better person, no they just want me to insult them using their babytalk.

YOU CANNOT CENSOR THOUGHTS PEOPLE, and that's what you are trying to do by censoring swear words...

so please, get your filthy paws off free speech.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playfool wrote:
I'm against any law that stiffles free speech, take those tossers who want people to use dang instead of damn and other such pointless censorships - now they don't want me to be a better person, no they just want me to insult them using their babytalk.

YOU CANNOT CENSOR THOUGHTS PEOPLE, and that's what you are trying to do by censoring swear words...

so please, get your filthy paws off free speech.


Fine - free speech however doesn't belong in the classroom, on the part of children.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
playfool wrote:
I'm against any law that stiffles free speech, take those tossers who want people to use dang instead of damn and other such pointless censorships - now they don't want me to be a better person, no they just want me to insult them using their babytalk.

YOU CANNOT CENSOR THOUGHTS PEOPLE, and that's what you are trying to do by censoring swear words...

so please, get your filthy paws off free speech.


Fine - free speech however doesn't belong in the classroom, on the part of children.


Free speech is a right all citizens have, including school children.

putting limits on free speech is not a way to get respect.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playfool wrote:
I'm against any law that stiffles free speech, take those tossers who want people to use dang instead of damn and other such pointless censorships - now they don't want me to be a better person, no they just want me to insult them using their babytalk.

YOU CANNOT CENSOR THOUGHTS PEOPLE, and that's what you are trying to do by censoring swear words...

so please, get your filthy paws off free speech.
bladiblabla. Whatever. Absolute free speech is an illusion. Any society needs to enforce certain social behaviour or it will die. That includes enforcing social rules that determine what is acceptable to say and what is not. Not everything should be able to be said. There are things that are not healthly for a society. Hate campaigns that instigate things like the elimination of some 6 million jews for instance.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playfool wrote:

Free speech is a right all citizens have, including school children.

putting limits on free speech is not a way to get respect.


Then we disagree, children have no right whatsoever to use abusive language within the context of this discussion, along with a few other 'rights' which I'd enforce (another argument for another time). Children may speak politely, which is a lesson that will do them well in future life (i.e. there are occasions when you do keep your mouth shut) - but at the end of the day, they are children and sometimes the only answer to 'why can't I say/do something' is - 'because I am an adult with x number of years more experience and I told you'.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
playfool wrote:

Free speech is a right all citizens have, including school children.

putting limits on free speech is not a way to get respect.


Then we disagree, children have no right whatsoever to use abusive language within the context of this discussion, along with a few other 'rights' which I'd enforce (another argument for another time). Children may speak politely, which is a lesson that will do them well in future life (i.e. there are occasions when you do keep your mouth shut) - but at the end of the day, they are children and sometimes the only answer to 'why can't I say/do something' is - 'because I am an adult with x number of years more experience and I told you'.


Because reasoning with your children is such a bad alternative to "because I said so".
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playfool wrote:

Because reasoning with your children is such a bad alternative to "because I said so".


This is getting away from the OT, which was an discussion on whether or not you agree with children swearing at teachers, but sometimes yes - saying 'I told you so' is enough for a child. We are talking about a child here, not an adult - sitting down with a child and explaining the full implications of their actions is a great idea - but sorry it isn't going to work all the time.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixnut wrote:
playfool wrote:
I'm against any law that stiffles free speech, take those tossers who want people to use dang instead of damn and other such pointless censorships - now they don't want me to be a better person, no they just want me to insult them using their babytalk.

YOU CANNOT CENSOR THOUGHTS PEOPLE, and that's what you are trying to do by censoring swear words...

so please, get your filthy paws off free speech.
bladiblabla. Whatever. Absolute free speech is an illusion. Any society needs to enforce certain social behaviour or it will die. That includes enforcing social rules that determine what is acceptable to say and what is not. Not everything should be able to be said. There are things that are not healthly for a society. Hate campaigns that instigate things like the elimination of some 6 million jews for instance.


I don't know about your country, but there - limitations on free speech hasn't magically made hate crimes, racism and other similar crimes. Once they cross the line into physically attacking someone or harrassing them, they are doing something illegal, weither they are doing it for the above reasons, or they are just deviants. So what's the point again?

Here if a muslim beats me up, he gets a sentence for beating me up, if I in return beat him up, I get a sentence for beating him up... and one for racism. Why? Does he hate me any less?

Intentionally harming other people is wrong, for whichever reason you do it.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Free speech doesn't give you the right to voice your opinion everywhere.

edit: typo, fixed strange sentence.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playfool wrote:
Here if a muslim beats me up...

Now hold on a minute, when did a single muslim ever beat anybody up? What you mean to say is "if a muslim, his 4 brothers and all their friends beat me up..." ;)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playfool wrote:
Intentionally harming other people is wrong, for whichever reason you do it.
And in my view that includes harm done by speech. Harm including verbal abuse, slander and all sorts of verbal psychological warfare. It's very well possibly to really really mess somebody up for good by "just" saying things to them. So in my opinion there should be no such thing as unlimited free speech.
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