Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Stage 4 website.
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Stage 4s?
Good Idea.
81%
 81%  [ 168 ]
Bad Idea.
18%
 18%  [ 39 ]
Total Votes : 207

Author Message
Cinder6
l33t
l33t


Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 767
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good idea.

Stage 3->1 is the best install right now (for speed freaks, that is), and Stage 4->1 will be even better because you end up with the same system as 3->1, but you get there quicker.
_________________
Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study hard.
Be evil.

Ugly Overload
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ritebayou
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 51
Location: South Louisiana

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Headrush wrote:
ritebayou wrote:
However, I want to start learning Gentoo by diving right in and not spending hours or days or weeks or months fumbling through the installation guide and Stage 1's or 3's.

A stage 3 + GRP CD installs in minutes.


But do you start out with a full GUI (X Window System) upon initial bootup?

The GRP CD? You mean the second disk with all the applications on it as source and binaries?

I somehow don't see how that can take place "in minutes" from the observations I've made and posts I've read...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Headrush
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 5597
Location: Bizarro World

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ritebayou wrote:
Headrush wrote:
ritebayou wrote:
However, I want to start learning Gentoo by diving right in and not spending hours or days or weeks or months fumbling through the installation guide and Stage 1's or 3's.

A stage 3 + GRP CD installs in minutes.


But do you start out with a full GUI (X Window System) upon initial bootup?

The GRP CD? You mean the second disk with all the applications on it as source and binaries?

I somehow don't see how that can take place "in minutes" from the observations I've made and posts I've read...

I've done it. 8)

They're precompiled binaries, so it similar installing any other distro. The difference is you still have to pick your packages, so its not as fast as a streamlined installer. Don't interpret minutes = 5 minutes. Obviously it depends on CPU and HD speed and number of packages.
You can start with X, but you still have to do things like adding xdm to runlevel and editing xorg.conf file.

ritebayou wrote:
The GRP CD? You mean the second disk with all the applications on it as source and binaries?

Yes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
qmx
n00b
n00b


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

look, when I've said about stage4 cd, i mean skip the basics after the stage3 install + X11 + (insert-your-light-wm-here)

stage3 + grub + vixie-cron + syslog-ng + slocate + xorg-x11 + fluxbox + a sample generic x86 kernel
to do it with catalyst from a seed stage3 won't be a lot of trouble



:D
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yakapiece
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 126
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
marcion wrote:
I think it is a great idea. Gentoo is about choice, the more choice the better.
Depends on what gets neglected to accomodate choice. For example, you can't really choose between Portage and RPM (otherwise its not Gentoo).


I agree with pjp, what will then be neglected?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shickapooka800
Guru
Guru


Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 304
Location: no

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how about a guided, multi questioned site that asks you a few generic questions (the WM and services/drivers stuff) and then spits out a custom stage 4 iso?

as in everybody agrees on the parameters they want to manipulate (lets say 5), and then an iso is made for each possibility (thats alot of iso's, but then again there are alot of gentoo users to help), and a site with a good amount of storage hosts the iso's and the questionare that leads the user to the iso they want.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3343

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont bother with stage 1's any more, this would cut down further install time as well and It could be touted to people as "the easy way to get used to using gentoo".
_________________
"Sex: breakfast of champions" - James Hunt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
qmx
n00b
n00b


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just thinked on stage4 approach because x11 takes a lot of time to build, and, c'mon, these are the days of gui.
(people doesn't need to know that we'll use 100 xterms) :mrgreen:

I think that it won't get more time from developers, as it is only a matter of some work at catalyst to include extra packages on stage3 (I hope this is easy to approach) :roll:
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jerem
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 177

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would be nice is not prebuild stage 4s, but a tool to create them easily.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
qmx
n00b
n00b


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't catalyst able to do it? i think that is the same phylosophy of make a livecd, without deleting bunch of files
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reub2000
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't this what Vidalinux is, a stage 4 gentoo install?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3343

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reub2000 wrote:
Isn't this what Vidalinux is, a stage 4 gentoo install?
thats like asking what zynot is...
_________________
"Sex: breakfast of champions" - James Hunt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reub2000
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
reub2000 wrote:
Isn't this what Vidalinux is, a stage 4 gentoo install?
thats like asking what zynot is...
So zynot is some sort of fork made by an angry developer. I really don't see what it has to do with Vidalinux, which from what I hear sets up a regular old gentoo installation using anacanda, the red hat installer instead of having the user do it manually.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ritebayou
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 51
Location: South Louisiana

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reub2000 wrote:
Isn't this what Vidalinux is, a stage 4 gentoo install?


What I find most interesting about Vidalinux is that they (two guys) have developed a number of releases of Vidalinux (which is, as you ask, plain old Gentoo installed automatically).

I have been following the development of the Gentoo Installer Project for nearly a year - about as long as the project has existed. And I'm still scratching my head in amazement as I sit passively on IRC and watch MANY different people working on this thing for many months and it is still "far" from functional.

Yet two guys in Brazil have just yesterday released Vidalinux 1.2 - including one with full PPC support and installs (so I'm told) flawlessly onto a Mac Mini. And Vidalinux on x86 has been an ongoing functioning distro for a long time...

I'd like to see an official Gentoo version, but it sadly seems that Gentoo's plentiful developer community pales in comparison to a couple Brazilians.

Dear God, I know this shall start a flame war and it's not intended.
_________________
All your base are belong to us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
St. Joe
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 242
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ritebayou wrote:
I'd like to see an official Gentoo version, but it sadly seems that Gentoo's plentiful developer community pales in comparison to a couple Brazilians.

I don't think you are taking into account that Vida's devs basically started with a complete GUI installer with Anacanda, and then modified it to fit their goals and needs. This is not the route that Gentoo is taking, and as I'm sure you would agree, it is much easier to stand on another person's shoulders than to lay the foundation yourself. I think the Gentoo Installer will be worth the wait, and it would be somewhat of a letdown if they were to just "borrow" a pre-existing GUI instead of spending the time to create a better suited and more tailored body of work.
_________________
For every hammer there is a nail.
For every nail there is a thumb.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ritebayou
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 51
Location: South Louisiana

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

St. Joe wrote:
ritebayou wrote:
I'd like to see an official Gentoo version, but it sadly seems that Gentoo's plentiful developer community pales in comparison to a couple Brazilians.

I don't think you are taking into account that Vida's devs basically started with a complete GUI installer with Anacanda, and then modified it to fit their goals and needs. This is not the route that Gentoo is taking, and as I'm sure you would agree, it is much easier to stand on another person's shoulders than to lay the foundation yourself. I think the Gentoo Installer will be worth the wait, and it would be somewhat of a letdown if they were to just "borrow" a pre-existing GUI instead of spending the time to create a better suited and more tailored body of work.


I fully agree with you that developing an installer entirely from scratch is quite a task. Anaconda is the choice of Vidalinux, that's true, while the Gentoo developers are doing it all from scratch using python.

I wish the Gentoo devs luck, but have found their bitter squabbles on IRC to be disconcerting. I lurk there a lot and find them arguing more than anything else. But that is just a personal observation as the "true" devs are likely carrying on private discussions not in the main room.
_________________
All your base are belong to us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Slalomsk8er
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 228
Location: Münchenstein, Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jholz7 wrote:
While I think this could be a good thing, I think it is too much work and encourages users to slack off. If you want to us Gentoo, then why wouldn't you want to put in time/effort to make it just like you want it? For poeple who want a quick system there are plenty of other distros out there.

Becouse if you install a linux for other people and you know that you have to administrate the box for ever you want gentoo but how do you tell a customer that you cost 25 $ph and that you need a day to just set up the OS!!!

I need a CD that can build a best optimized install for the box in as less time as possible. At the moment vlos is the only thing that bring gentoo in a way that I can use it in a normal timeframe. 4 hours for install and configure are all that work for customers. Fine tuning and updating is done via ssh. So install in a morning and testing in the work environment by the user while I am still on site and tune all none vital configs and recompile the system while he is working.

Besides if you are a normal user and you have just one box you do not want to spend days if untrained before you can use your box again.

A working system now, a optimal system after recompileing of all things while still checking emails and browsing and posting and moderating a forum or 2 ;)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum