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Gergan Penkov
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gotaserena, you could use the portage cvs to download the ebuild, bit I don't think this will help you, I don't think it is sth in xorg or nvidia:
http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/.
Happy testing and if this somehow helps you, share the experience:)
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Gergan, I'm currently narrowing it down to xorg, really (I have a radeon), since I've run 30 days on this machine using basically the same setup - save for the Xserver.

In case anybody is interested, I found it faster to just download the source manually from
https://xorg.freedesktop.org/~gisburn/X11R682/download/X11R682RC4/

Let's see if this lasts more than 5 days...
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:41 am    Post subject: My nvidia / gentoo-sources problems? Reply with quote

I've been having problems for the last week with my laptop (Inspiron 8000.) Finally I decided to make the leap to udev and 2.6 kernel. This system has been running (and fairly regularly updated) for almost 3 years. It has a GeForce2Go video card:

Code:
0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV11 [GeForce2 Go] (rev b2)


For the last week I've been pulling my hair out as sometimes whenever the nvidia module loaded and others as soon as X gets going (last log out was loading PCI data) the whole system would freeze completely. No terminal, no ssh.....nothing.....didn't try serial! So I played around a lot with different xorg configurations - tried using nvidia agp and kernel and none. Glx no glx, tried the nv module.

I picked over my kernel build options in fine detail. I tried passing routeirq=pci to the kernel. Eventually I decided to do an emerge -e world - I was determined to get this working! So a couple of days later I find the laptop freezes without X even being invoked (sorry I don't know whether the nvidia module was loaded).

I think the problem lies somewhere in gentoo-sources - or a result of something a patch in there is doing. I've just managed to get it all up and working fine by switching to vanilla-sources! I'm using 2.6.11.10 vanilla-sources now. Previously I had started with gentoo-sources-2.6.11-r6 and then in my update gentoo-sources-2.6.11-r8.

In case it is useful here is the (brief) details of my system (in its now working state):

Code:

Linux version 2.6.11.10 (root@stewartslaptop) (gcc version 3.3.5-20050130 (Gentoo 3.3.5.20050130-r1, ssp-3.3.5.20050130-1, pie-8.7.7.1)) #1 Fri May 20

lspci
0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82815 815 Chipset Host Bridge and Memory Controller Hub (rev 02)
0000:00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82815 815 Chipset AGP Bridge (rev 02)
0000:00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 Mobile PCI Bridge (rev 02)
0000:00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801BAM ISA Bridge (LPC) (rev 02)
0000:00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801BAM IDE U100 (rev 02)
0000:00:1f.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM USB (Hub #1) (rev 02)
0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV11 [GeForce2 Go] (rev b2)
0000:02:03.0 Multimedia audio controller: ESS Technology ES1983S Maestro-3i PCI Audio Accelerator (rev 10)
0000:02:06.0 PCI bridge: Actiontec Electronics Inc Mini-PCI bridge (rev 11)
0000:02:0f.0 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI4451 PC card Cardbus Controller
0000:02:0f.1 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI4451 PC card Cardbus Controller
0000:02:0f.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Texas Instruments PCI4451 IEEE-1394 Controller
0000:08:04.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82557/8/9 [Ethernet Pro 100] (rev 08)
0000:08:08.0 Communication controller: Agere Systems (former Lucent Microelectronics) WinModem 56k (rev 01)
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ikaro
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

upgrading software - from the point where you find something that works - to something unknow
its a risk, afterall everything is test code.
Im not judging - I upgrade all the time with the consequences involved. sometimes something goes terribly wrong.
I just cant help it - I always think that newer is better - sometimes thats the case, but many times its not.
:roll:
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Nerdanel
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For completeness' sake here are some BIOS things that I tried recently that didn't help.

I turned of all the USB stuff in the BIOS and gained this pretty list of interrupts. This pretty much excludes any possibility of the freezes being related to things sharing an IRQ.

Code:

           CPU0
  0:  186092161          XT-PIC  timer
  1:     135090          XT-PIC  i8042
  2:          0          XT-PIC  cascade
  5:    1361429          XT-PIC  NVidia nForce2
  9:          0          XT-PIC  acpi
 11:   19214034          XT-PIC  eth0
 12:    1004946          XT-PIC  i8042
 14:     420084          XT-PIC  ide0
 15:         59          XT-PIC  ide1
NMI:          0
ERR:          0


I can confirm downsizing the AGP aperture to 32 megs does not help.

Switching the order of the PCI and AGP initializations is useless too.
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deyab
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a GeForce2 MX/MX 400 card, and was experiencing lockups. The symptoms are the same as most other posters. X locked up, mouse moves, but doesn't do anything. CPU 99.5%

I have added
Option "NvAGP" "0"
under Section "Device"

and it's been OK for about 36 hours how. Ran 4 glxgears for 4 hours, scrolled the firefox page like crazy, and resized TBird window like there's no tomorrow. OK so far. No other changes made. If this is going to remain this way.. well time will tell. HTH
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ikaro
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that means you disable agp - thats where the problem is like it has been said countless times and proven,
that if you disable AGP you dont have any problems.
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chonger
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lizardcry wrote:
I was doing great with the ide=poll noapic [see above]. I turned DRI back on. Then it froze solid trying to load openoffice.

still testing.


Lizardcry, I also tried the params you suggested and it did not help my system either. Here's the full list of kernel options I pass in.

acpi=off acpi=noirq noapic nolapic idle=poll noapm

It is definitely an issue related with Xorg. My system only freezes when I am running Xorg. The latest option I will try is disabling AGP.

ikaro wrote:
that means you disable agp - thats where the problem is like it has been said countless times and proven,
that if you disable AGP you dont have any problems.


One thing I want to bring up is that I am seeing a lot more freezes after I updated my system to the latest and greatest (upgraded glibc, which enabled nptl in libc, upgraded gnome to latest version) to see if it helps, but it has only made the problem worse. Kids, I decided to make massive changes to my system when I knew it was already unstable. That was about the dumbest thing I can do :) Remeber, when you have a problem you need to fix, try the most conservative change first instead of making massive changes that cannot be rolled back!
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Gergan Penkov
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok it's been more than two weeks without a freeze, but I don't use RenderAccel option, which is probably unacceptable for some of u ::)).
There is probably some point in the post about vanilla-sources, has someone freezes with pure vanilla kernel?
I have looked the gentoo-headers and there are a lot of patches, which seem suspectable to me, especially one for pic-enabled systems and it is dated 9 july last year (there are versions for 2.4 and 2.6 kernels). gnome doesn't use prelinking and therefore is more stable, but kde and probably geckos are trying sth, which with this patch screws the system. I think I have tried the pic-flag but I'm not sure. probably it is a good idea to try and remove all patches from kernel-headers (use the vanilla-kernel) and recompile the system, but I don't have so much space ::((( to try it.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gergan Penkov wrote:
Ok it's been more than two weeks without a freeze, but I don't use RenderAccel option, which is probably unacceptable for some of u ::)).


FYI, I have RenderAccel="False" and it does not improve my system either. FYI, I have a nvidia GeForce2 card and I haven't had problem with nvidia drivers. But a couple things I will try over the weekend is

1. Disable AGP
2. Use the "nv" driver instead of the nvidia driver.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok,, what is "nv" driver and where do I get it? I followed gentoo's docs on setting up X and the nvidia guide. lsmod shows I have "nvidia" loaded.

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nvidia is the proprietary driver from nvidia and nv is the xorg free implementation, you could select the nv-driver in xorg.conf. In
Code:
Section "Device"

you must simply change from
Code:
Driver "nvidia"

to
Code:
Driver "nv"
.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deyab wrote:
ok,, what is "nv" driver and where do I get it? I followed gentoo's docs on setting up X and the nvidia guide. lsmod shows I have "nvidia" loaded.

Thanks.


The "nv" driver is a driver suitable for nvidia cards. It is not released by nvidia. Its performance (especially running 3d programs) is horrible compares to the authentic nvidia driver.

To use the nv driver, edit your /etc/X11/xorg.conf and replace

Code:

    Driver "nvidia"


With

Code:

    # Comment out the nvidia-provided high performance driver for a hack fix
    #Driver "nvidia"
    # Uses the "nv" driver that comes with Xorg. Uncomment the following
    # and restore the nvidia driver when the "real" fix is found.
    Driver "nv"
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MalachiX
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a place you can go where there is a complete tutorial on how to setup the nv driver? Last time I tried to use the nv driver instead of the propritary nvidia one, I had no graphic acceleration.
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chonger
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MalachiX wrote:
Is there a place you can go where there is a complete tutorial on how to setup the nv driver? Last time I tried to use the nv driver instead of the propritary nvidia one, I had no graphic acceleration.


The nv driver is a basic driver and does not provide any graphic acceleration.
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this on the Xfree website one day:

"nv is an XFree86 driver for NVIDIA video cards. The driver is fully accelerated and provides support for the following framebuffer depths: 8, 15, 16 (except Riva128) and 24. All visual types are supported for depth 8, TrueColor and DirectColor visuals are supported for the other depths with the exception of the Riva128 which only supports TrueColor in the higher depths. Multi-head configurations are supported."

The URL is http://www.xfree86.org/4.0.3/nv.4.html btw. I hear that Xorg was derived from Xfree. That is why I was under impression that the nv driver had graphic acceleration also under Xorg?
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: almost solved ??? !!!! Reply with quote

just a short question ...

are we all using the nice, niftaij and comfi cordless desktop stuff ?

i just bought a damn ass cheap ps2 mice 'n kezboard, plugged it in - forgot to turn on ps2 mice suport in the bios - and had no probs till now.

that made me remember a similar problem i had when using debian back in my old flat with my old debian server... same problems for a while, they disapeared, as i remember now, as i used cabled input devices.. after i spilled some alcoholic baverages late at night over my mouse - the white russian made it almost impossible to use that than sticky and gluie thing...

but the point was... after changing the inout device the problems disapeard. so the drecksack would be the 'polluted' air - 'cause the receiver isnt droppin out boogietraffic...

a solution would be the use bluetooth desktops, but they are expensive..

cheereoh!
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chonger
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

I have been experiencing freezes much frequently recently and I don't know why. Last night, I downgraded from this kernel:

Code:
kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.11-gentoo-r8 root=/dev/hda3 acpi=off acpi=noirq noapic nolapic idle=poll noapm


to this one:

Code:
kernel /kernel-2.6.10-gentoo-r6 root=/dev/hda3 acpi=off pci=noacpi acpi=noirq


I'll play around with kernel params to see if it was the change in kernel params that helped or the change in kernel version that helped. I have noticed most people here are using the 2.6.11 release, maybe something in there caused the problem.

Gergan Penkov wrote:
It seems to me that changing from linux26-headers-2.6.8.1-r2 to linux-headers-2.6.8.1-r4 has created all this problems and I am not sure if the version change or the ebuild change has triggered all this. I will try and downgrade to 2.6.8.1-r2 and see if this helps.


It seems a part of the freezing problem we are seeing came from using a particular release of gentoo kernel. Some people here reported freezes with other releases, but I believe they are seeing a different kind of freezes then the ones I am experiencing: Hard lock, no keyboard/mouse input, alt-ctrl-delete & alt-ctrl-backspace does not work, all network services stops listening, unpingable; basically it seems the kernel is dead. People who had freezing under other kernels reports that their mouse still works or they can still ssh in. Those freezes are caused by a different sort of problem, I suspect.

On my system, a freeze can be easily reproduced using firefox. I open a page with a lot of text (python documentation for example), then use the mousewheel to scroll up and down. Within a couple of minuters my system would hard lock and requires a reboot. I have not been able to reproduce this with the gentoo-2.6.10 series of kernels.

What kernel branch does the gentoo dev team consider to be the most "supported" or most "stable." I believe this branch use to be gentoo-dev kernels because this branch was the most actively worked on. Is gentoo-sources considered most stable now or is it genkernel?

MalachiX wrote:
I found this on the Xfree website one day:

"nv is an XFree86 driver for NVIDIA video cards. The driver is fully accelerated and provides support for the following framebuffer depths: 8, 15, 16 (except Riva128) and 24. All visual types are supported for depth 8, TrueColor and DirectColor visuals are supported for the other depths with the exception of the Riva128 which only supports TrueColor in the higher depths. Multi-head configurations are supported."

The URL is http://www.xfree86.org/4.0.3/nv.4.html btw. I hear that Xorg was derived from Xfree. That is why I was under impression that the nv driver had graphic acceleration also under Xorg?


Xorg is derived from Xfree. The nv driver, however, never did provide the kind of 3D acceleration that the nvidia driver does. I do not know the detailed differences between the two, but I don't expect the free nv driver to have all the optimization that the latest nvidia drivers do. There might be a way to enable that, but that way is beyond me.
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 12:23 pm    Post subject: okay - BUMMER ! Reply with quote

i admit, that my euphorie has come down..

but just another thought:

wat means that output in my xorg logfile ?
Code:

(WW) NVIDIA(0): WAIT (2, 6, 0x8000, 0x0000f62c, 0x0000dd7c, 1)
(WW) NVIDIA(0): WAIT (1, 6, 0x8000, 0x0000f62c, 0x0000dd7c, 1)
(WW) NVIDIA(0): WAIT (2, 6, 0x8000, 0x0000f62c, 0x0000e8b8, 1)
(WW) NVIDIA(0): WAIT (1, 6, 0x8000, 0x0000f62c, 0x0000e8b8, 1)
(WW) NVIDIA(0): WAIT (2, 6, 0x8000, 0x0000f62c, 0x0000e920, 1)
(WW) NVIDIA(0): WAIT (1, 6, 0x8000, 0x0000f62c, 0x0000e920, 1)
(WW) NVIDIA(0): WAIT (2, 6, 0x8000, 0x0000f62c, 0x0000e954, 1)
(WW) NVIDIA(0): WAIT (1, 6, 0x8000, 0x0000f62c, 0x0000e954, 1)
(WW) NVIDIA(0): WAIT (2, 6, 0x8000, 0x0000f62c, 0x0000f060, 1)
(WW) NVIDIA(0): WAIT (1, 6, 0x8000, 0x0000f62c, 0x0000f060, 1)


yes, i have two screens...

pröstchen ;))

..something cant get a mem alloc somewhere, i suppose. but thats as far as my understanding goes...
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: almost solved ??? !!!! Reply with quote

muttijay wrote:
just a short question ...

are we all using the nice, niftaij and comfi cordless desktop stuff ?

i just bought a damn ass cheap ps2 mice 'n kezboard, plugged it in - forgot to turn on ps2 mice suport in the bios - and had no probs till now.

Nope, i've allways been using PS/2 keyboard and mouse.

chonger wrote:
I think we all believe that the root cause is coming from xorg. To see if this is true regarding my system, I have turned off xorg and see if it is going to run without freezing for a while.

Not true, xfree86 is also affected. So I don't think that will help.

The question about the plain vanilla source is an interesting thought. Pitty that I don't have time right now to test it. (thesis has to be finished first...)

Johan
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, I've been meaning to ask this question. Are we supposed to run the same revision level
of linux-headers as the kernel source itself? In my case I run a kernel that is 3 minor revision
levels later than my linux-headers, i.e. 2.6.11-gentoo-r9 kernel vs 2.6.8.1-r2 linux-headers.
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference is not really a serious problem, the headers are used to recompile glibc and some other system libraries, which simply means that the libraries would use some old api, but the apis between the different kernel version must be compatible. My concern is that some kernel-headers patch could have created these problems, but I don't have place to install second system with unpatched headers and vanilla-kernel to see if the problems continue.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:

root[~] grep Xid /var/log/messages                                                             
Apr 28 16:04:28 host sudo:    ikaro : TTY=pts/2 ; PWD=/home/ikaro ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/bin/Xid /var/log/messages                                                                         
May 15 12:42:42 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=720 Y=400 Refresh=85                           
May 15 12:43:06 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=696 Y=525 Refresh=75                           
May 16 22:51:13 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=896 Y=672 Refresh=75                           
May 17 10:01:03 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=720 Y=400 Refresh=85                           
May 19 10:26:30 host NVRM: Xid: 13, 0000 02005600 00000056 00000c28 037b015d 00000080       
May 19 23:56:29 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=720 Y=400 Refresh=85                           
May 19 23:56:39 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=696 Y=525 Refresh=75                           
May 22 10:12:27 host NVRM: Xid: 6, PE0000 0cf0 00106400 00000c00 003bacf0 00000003           
May 22 12:26:20 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=720 Y=400 Refresh=85                           
May 22 12:26:33 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=696 Y=525 Refresh=75                           
May 22 18:04:24 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=896 Y=672 Refresh=75                           
May 22 18:04:37 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=720 Y=400 Refresh=85                           
May 22 18:04:41 host NVRM: Xid: 17, Head=0 X=696 Y=525 Refresh=75                           
May 24 17:12:17 host NVRM: Xid: 6, PE0000 02fc 00000003 00000000 001e1e27 00000003


The last line is a crash that just happened a couple minutes ago - this makes no sense to me.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My system has not locked up for about 4-5 days now. Unfortunately, I cannot pinpoint what I did to make my problem go away.

To summarize my experience, I had started getting lock ups while X is running (specifically, I am running Xorg). I first switched my desktop environment from KDE to Gnome, while it seemed to help, the lock ups did not go away completely. The second thing I tried was to upgrade all the packages on my system, including the kernel version. This still did not help with my situation. I had tried the kernel params suggested in this forum, and that did not change anything either. I had tried using the "nv" driver instead of the "nvidia" driver and tried disabling AGP, but I still had frequent freezes.

The last thing I did was to revert to the previous kernel. I had lock ups with this version, but the problem wasn't as severe. Suddenly I noticed I wasn't getting ANY lock ups at all. OK. So I reverted any kernel param changes, and still no lock ups. I went back to the nvidia driver and enabled AGP, still no problems. I even switched my kernel to the latest kernel (gentoo-sources-2.6.11-r8 ), and I still cannot reproduce the problem. Now my system is stable again, but I had made so many changes from start to finish, I don't know exactly what I did to make the problem go away.

My gut feeling is that throughout this process I had unemerged the nvidia driver, rebuild the linux kernel and reinstalled all kernel modules, and re-emerged the nvidia driver afterwards, and maybe this is what helped to stablize my system.

Another reminder, the type of lockups I experienced was

1. Hard lockup, no keyboard response & mouse movements.
2. Server itself no longer pingable, cannot ssh in; all network services stopped responding.
3. No error messages in the logs when the lockup occured.

From reading this thread, I noticed that some people are experiencing a different sort of problem (their screen freezes, but their network services still responded and they can remotely kill x via a shell), so what solved my problem may not help you at all. But hopefully my experience will provide some sort of value to you.

[Edit: specifies the kernel version]
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wuzzerd
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what its worth, yesterday I upgraded to kernel-2.6.11-gentoo-r9, messed around in menu config, then find I consistently got lockups in X (kde) which had not happened for a long time in my r5 configuration.

This morning I recompiled r-9 with all frame buffer stuff disabled. So far so good.

I hope posting this doesn't cause lockups to return. :D
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