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mojo
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimmyW wrote:
mojo wrote:
Of course this error won't disapear until you have your /var directory on the root partition and on a seperat partition. You cannot create mkfifos in the /var directory when you have it seperatly mounted. The errors will disappear when you create the fifos in the /var directory on your root partition, because the /var directory is later mounted in the init process, in the /system/locelmount script.


You can change path to in and out fifos in src/initng.h

Happy hacking.


thanks, I moved the two directories to /et/initng. Now everything works and gets up to 100%. Also I have a login at tty1.

I think one of the problems of some of the initscripts for me is that /usr and /var are on a different partition. Initscripts like system/keymaps, system/alsasound that depends on files from /usr should be started after system/localmount. The the initng wouldn't stop.
Also for me system/swap should depend on system/checkfs because my swap partition is part of a lvm2.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mojo wrote:
JimmyW wrote:
mojo wrote:
Of course this error won't disapear until you have your /var directory on the root partition and on a seperat partition. You cannot create mkfifos in the /var directory when you have it seperatly mounted. The errors will disappear when you create the fifos in the /var directory on your root partition, because the /var directory is later mounted in the init process, in the /system/locelmount script.


You can change path to in and out fifos in src/initng.h

Happy hacking.


thanks, I moved the two directories to /et/initng. Now everything works and gets up to 100%. Also I have a login at tty1.

I think one of the problems of some of the initscripts for me is that /usr and /var are on a different partition. Initscripts like system/keymaps, system/alsasound that depends on files from /usr should be started after system/localmount. The the initng wouldn't stop.
Also for me system/swap should depend on system/checkfs because my swap partition is part of a lvm2.
Exactly my problem :) I'll try this asap
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JimmyW
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

numerodix wrote:
When compiling I get this error:

Code:
gcc -Wall -Wextra -pipe -g -pedantic -Werror -c main.c
cc1: error: unrecognized option `-Wextra'


So I removed -Wextra from the Makefile and it compiled. Going to try it now.

EDIT: the boot doesn't complete. It stops at 88% system/localmount. That's after I removed coldplug from the runway which was the final stop before that. I get a message the mounting fails so I deleted that entry and now it stops at 87& system/static-modules

using the 0.0.4 ebuild


This is an option that works in latest gcc, and will generate extra warnings, it is away in next version, i promise..

Using command ngc -s you can se what service that is failing, also watch tty12.

if a service fails, you have to zap its state with ngc -z service, if you change the config file, you have to remove te in ram cache with ngc -r service, after that you can ngc -d service or ngc -u service..

Restart failing services, and watch output on tty12, and you can se wats wrong..

What distro is you using?


rmh3093 wrote:
JimmyW wrote:
rmh3093 wrote:
watch out, i created the /var/initng dir and the in and out files and rebooted and then i just got runaway errors on tty1


Run away errors?

ar all fios in place, unpack the tarball, step into it, and type make mkfifos...

Make sure you are using the latest version.


ok i ran make mkfifos and every thing seems to run fine, i added net/pcmcia to initng/runlevel.system before net/lo and it said it started but when I checked lsmod the modules were not loaded, it does not look like cardmgr gets started nor does the net/eth1 becase it complains about the oldschool init boot runlevel not having been completed.


cardmanager is started by ngc -u daemon/cardmgr , it will depend that system/pcmcia is up..


watch code in /etc/initng/net/net.i for a clue about the net problem..



stahlsau wrote:
Quote:
Of course this error won't disapear until you have your /var directory on the root partition and on a seperat partition. You cannot create mkfifos in the /var directory when you have it seperatly mounted. The errors will disappear when you create the fifos in the /var directory on your root partition, because the /var directory is later mounted in the init process, in the /system/locelmount script.

hum, well, i didn't think about this...ok, fixed ;)
It works ok for now, despite the missing initscripts. I'll see if i can port those i need after the weekend (i'm on tour with the club from tomorrow on).

thx for help!


Next version, that i release later this evening have 15 more initfiles, some of them untested :-(, Please help me there.


ikke wrote:
I'll try this too :)
Is it compatible with gensplash? :)


No, not yet but that is not a problem i think, it alredy calculates progress..
I have to get framebuffer working on my IBM Thinkpad X40 before i can fix any progress here..


ikke wrote:
Hmm, just booted using it...
What comes up is damn fast, but I got a lot of errors regarding stuff it can't find on /var, which is quite normal because my /var is in LVM2 so as long as its not mounted nothing is in there.


Maby i will try to place the in and out fifos somewere else, any suggestion?


int2str wrote:
Jimmy,

my notebook is in repair, so I can't try it yet, but I applaud you for taking this on and generating a potentially great program.

Some quesitons/suggestions from the sidelines:

Apparently many people have problems with generating / or the location of the FIFOs. Can you use a different form of IPC? What do you use the FIFOs for and how could we replace them?

If you must use FIFOs, make the location command line configurable maybe. Though I still think that FIFOs might be a bad idea for an init process.

Did you write all the code yourself, or did it evolve out of a different project? There's a lot of BUSYBOX checks in there and the copyright header refers to a "library"...

Also, since you say you generated initng with new ideas and a different approach, it would be nice if you wrote a small design document outlining your ideas and their implementation. That way new developers might join you quicker.

I'll try it as soon as my notebook is out of repair.

Cheers,
Andre



I have been thinking on a diffrent form, ip-sockets is no good, unsafe and requires networking.
Dbus, this might be good as a complement, but is to much overhead for ngc.
Shm, Little overkill?

I think a fifo is great.. i have to find a better path for the fifo.

I have written almost all code by hand, exept the GPL header...
I got higly inspired by the minit-projekt and found some solutions for doing things there, there migt be som code from that project, but not mutch..
And som rows maby from sysvinit.

I think this code have been overwritten by me.. but credits go to them..

The use of BUSYBOX defines is a posibly i added to make initng works with busybox. try self bulding a a-lib with code with make init.a in src, this is testing, no actualy cod is stolen from busybox...

I realy woud like a design document, but as you may notice my english spelling or gramar is not the best, if someone can help me out there, i woud be realy happy.

I think THE code is more then well commented, so i think it woud be very easy to undestand..

Make sure you thest the latest version, as i do mutch progress every day, i dont sleep or eat...

The gpl misstake, i have to admit, i have not read the licens of my own program, i have copied this code snippet from a GPL file, and i misset that it stod library.. I will change this when i got time...





Thank you all for your input, i realy like that you care and write to me, thats the strengh of a opensource comunity!


Ps. A new version will be out in a hour or so, happy hacking....

/Jimmy Wennlund
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rmh3093
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can u change the order of the init process my by chaging the order of the lines in the runfile?
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimmyW wrote:


Thank you all for your input, i realy like that you care and write to me, thats the strengh of a opensource comunity!

/Jimmy Wennlund


This is why I love using Linux...
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmh3093 wrote:
can u change the order of the init process my by chaging the order of the lines in the runfile?

no, only by adding
use = system/service
or
need = system/service
into the service that shud be started after system/service..

This is the strengt of initng, all services shud have the exactly dependencys so initng knows how early it can start the service, ant thats is making initng so fast.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more comments from looking at the code:
(man I wish I could try this yet...)

- You need to run indent on your source ;). The code is a wild mix of spaces and tabs which makes it look quite bad in my editor.

- It looks like you're using the FIFOs for the remote control interface. If that's the only thing you are using them for, then I definitely recommend substituting them with a message queue (or two).

You will not find a "good path" to put the FIFOs, given how many people use LVM or other esotheric file systems which won't be available while booting. It's an unecessary dependancy you are creating there. Use message queues or even shared memory to do this.

Since you use dyndns, I assume you're hosting the website from your home? Maybe consider using sourceforge or similar for better availability. This will be important as the project becomes more popular.

Cheers,
Andre
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

int2str wrote:
Some more comments from looking at the code:
(man I wish I could try this yet...)

- You need to run indent on your source ;). The code is a wild mix of spaces and tabs which makes it look quite bad in my editor.

- It looks like you're using the FIFOs for the remote control interface. If that's the only thing you are using them for, then I definitely recommend substituting them with a message queue (or two).

You will not find a "good path" to put the FIFOs, given how many people use LVM or other esotheric file systems which won't be available while booting. It's an unecessary dependancy you are creating there. Use message queues or even shared memory to do this.

Since you use dyndns, I assume you're hosting the website from your home? Maybe consider using sourceforge or similar for better availability. This will be important as the project becomes more popular.

Cheers,
Andre


I have always been looking for indent, now i found it!, thak you.

How do message queue works?

Do you realy think this project will grow that mutch?

/jimmy.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimmyW wrote:
How do message queue works?


See here:
http://snap.nlc.dcccd.edu/learn/fuller3/chap12/chap12.html

There's some explanation and example code towards the bottom.

Quote:
Do you realy think this project will grow that mutch?


I sure hope so :D.

Even if it doesn't, if you put it on Sourceforge we can use ViewCVS and if you ever decide to abandon the project, it'll still be available for forking etc.

While I'm at it, one request please:

Keep it simple!

One major feature of initng is that it seems to be simple and fast. Keep it that way. Please dont include file prefetching or other complicated additions just yet. At least until the core is stable. And if you decide to add preloading etc. please make it modular, so that people who don't want it, don't have to install it.

I believe you've successfully shown that a fast and parallel startup doesn't necessarily require preloading at all, and can already cut the Linux boot time quite considerably.

Keep up the good work Jimmy!

Once my notebook is back I will try it and contribute code/documentation where I can - time permitting.

Cheers,
Andre
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

int2str wrote:
JimmyW wrote:
How do message queue works?


See here:
http://snap.nlc.dcccd.edu/learn/fuller3/chap12/chap12.html

There's some explanation and example code towards the bottom.

Quote:
Do you realy think this project will grow that mutch?


I sure hope so :D.

Even if it doesn't, if you put it on Sourceforge we can use ViewCVS and if you ever decide to abandon the project, it'll still be available for forking etc.

While I'm at it, one request please:

Keep it simple!

One major feature of initng is that it seems to be simple and fast. Keep it that way. Please dont include file prefetching or other complicated additions just yet. At least until the core is stable. And if you decide to add preloading etc. please make it modular, so that people who don't want it, don't have to install it.

I believe you've successfully shown that a fast and parallel startup doesn't necessarily require preloading at all, and can already cut the Linux boot time quite considerably.

Keep up the good work Jimmy!

Once my notebook is back I will try it and contribute code/documentation where I can - time permitting.

Cheers,
Andre


When i wrote this, i had in mind to make it plug-in compatible..
Addning new parsers, boot splash. and so on, shud be easy to add as modules, but its hard to keep the core small and clean.

Im working now to get anymous subversion acess avaibly, svn includes webcvs like.

/Jimmy.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To all that wants to be latest version away!
#emerge subversion
#svn checkout http://jw.dyndns.org/initng/svn/initng


Browse the source directly in your webbrowser here http://jw.dyndns.org/initng/svn


Happy hacking! // Jimmy.
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i commented out the 6 lines in /sbin/runscript.sh which check for the boot level and now pcmcia starts my net interface, i think i can do that with alsasound....

is there anyway way you can get cardmanager+ pcmcia start as soon as possible because besides the fscheck is one of the longest tasks,

also i know i removed hdparm from any runlevel files but I still see it start durring init, whats up with that?

last note, cant u post just the ebuild instead of it in a .tar.gz file with folders and crap, its much easier to just copy the ebuild to the overlay and type 'emerge initng --digest'


awsome work though so far!
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy schmoly, Jimmy!
That's some fine work you did there!!

I couldn't wait to try it, so I installed initng on my wife's machine :D.

I cannot believe how fast the machine boot now! Great work!

Total boot time (Grub to KDM login ready) went from 46secs to 29!! Nice!

The kernel takes about 15secs, so the init part went from 30secs to 14!

Wow. Now I really can't wait to try it on my AMD64 notebook, once our of repair :D

Cheers,
Andre
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmh3093 wrote:
i commented out the 6 lines in /sbin/runscript.sh which check for the boot level and now pcmcia starts my net interface, i think i can do that with alsasound....

is there anyway way you can get cardmanager+ pcmcia start as soon as possible because besides the fscheck is one of the longest tasks,

also i know i removed hdparm from any runlevel files but I still see it start durring init, whats up with that?

last note, cant u post just the ebuild instead of it in a .tar.gz file with folders and crap, its much easier to just copy the ebuild to the overlay and type 'emerge initng --digest'


awsome work though so far!


There is something wrong, initng wont be using /sbin/runscript.sh, its gentoo specific, try to find out what service uses it and why i does, and if you can fix it...

look att system/pcmcia and daemon/cardmrg, look att the depends or need flags, it will till you exactly what services that is needed befor it can be launched, try removing som of the dependencys..

In system/bootmisc change:
depends = system/checkroot system/hdparm
to
depends = system/checkroot
use = system/hdparm

And bootmisc wont force hdparm start.

Okay, i will be publish only the ebuld next time..

I do also recomend you all to use the latest svn version by:

#emerge subversion
#svn checkout http://jw.dyndns.org/initng/svn/initng
#cd initng
#make
#make install

There you will follow progress faster.

Happy coding..
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

int2str wrote:
Holy schmoly, Jimmy!


"Schmoly", i cant find the word in spell or dictionary wont find it, are you drunk?

int2str wrote:

That's some fine work you did there!!

I couldn't wait to try it, so I installed initng on my wife's machine :D.

Thank you, im glad you liked it..

Did you re-partition, and installing linux on yor wifes machine, thats bad! Mine woud not be happy.

int2str wrote:


I cannot believe how fast the machine boot now! Great work!

Total boot time (Grub to KDM login ready) went from 46secs to 29!! Nice!

The kernel takes about 15secs, so the init part went from 30secs to 14!

Wow. Now I really can't wait to try it on my AMD64 notebook, once our of repair :D

Cheers,
Andre


Did all services start correctly? did everything worked fine? i dont belive this.




Im loking for how to spread this software outside Unsupported Software, in gentoo forum, do you have andy suggestions?
I woud like som extra contributors, this project is growing to large for me to handle, i deperatly need som documentation written, i hope someone can help me out here...

// Jimmy.
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy,

this is one of the best projects. however it's still beta test but it awsome. I could boot from 34s to around 12s ! but I get few issues.

First of all I don't know how to write script for wlan. I saw one in net/wlan.i but i dont get it.

is it possible to set few things on the wlan card and then start daemon ? something like start function and then daemon.

all the time I get message that it cannot find the source. daemon is dhcpcd but i need to put correct key, essid etc.
How can I do it?

Another things is more important (ok the net is important as well ;) ). I'm using jfs on my root partition. sometimes when I shutdown, through ctrl+alt+del or simple halt, reboot etc. I get kernel oops. I use vanilla kernel 2.6.11.7 without any patches. On the oops message I get soimething about scheduling of jfs.

I recompiled the kernel to the new one 2.6.11.8 but I still get the oopses and only during restart.

filesystems seems to unmount cleanly, I checked few times. Don't know what can be the cause. I don;t have these problems with standard init.
sometimes after boot I have total freeze and have to reset manually. however as alreadt told, filesystems are clean.

regardless this problems I think this project is great. finally my box is booting almost instantly ;) (i.e. faster than picking up the hot coffee and taste it ;) )

Kamil
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

quat wrote:
Jimmy,

this is one of the best projects. however it's still beta test but it awsome. I could boot from 34s to around 12s ! but I get few issues.


Im glad!

quat wrote:

First of all I don't know how to write script for wlan. I saw one in net/wlan.i but i dont get it.

is it possible to set few things on the wlan card and then start daemon ? something like start function and then daemon.

all the time I get message that it cannot find the source. daemon is dhcpcd but i need to put correct key, essid etc.
How can I do it?


I have not ported any system for seting up network, i use small scripts like starting dhcp, or so.

wifi-manager is a realy good program that simplyfy wlan controling a lot, maby you shud test
it http://www.bitbuilder.com/wifi_radar/

Yest thats possible, addning tow services, it can be done in the same file...
Im gona work for a generig network config, but for now we have to hardcode..

quat wrote:


Another things is more important (ok the net is important as well ;) ). I'm using jfs on my root partition. sometimes when I shutdown, through ctrl+alt+del or simple halt, reboot etc. I get kernel oops. I use vanilla kernel 2.6.11.7 without any patches. On the oops message I get soimething about scheduling of jfs.

I recompiled the kernel to the new one 2.6.11.8 but I still get the oopses and only during restart.

filesystems seems to unmount cleanly, I checked few times. Don't know what can be the cause. I don;t have these problems with standard init.
sometimes after boot I have total freeze and have to reset manually. however as alreadt told, filesystems are clean.

regardless this problems I think this project is great. finally my box is booting almost instantly ;) (i.e. faster than picking up the hot coffee and taste it ;) )

Kamil


I have newer used jfs, and i dont undestand what it coud be..
The unmount code is stolen from gentoo scripts, and i have not modifyed it any that i know.
I hop you find a solution to this problem.

To support initng, please tell about it to your friends, then maby initng will grow...


I am going for work now, i work as a salesman selling icecream, i which i coud code free software for food...

// Jimmy Wennlund
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tested it right now... awesome 10s improvement here (from 36s to 26s, love patchset kernel, no X autostart).

I am not a coder, but i bookmarked this thread and will keep on testing it...

cheers...
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimmyW wrote:
This is an option that works in latest gcc, and will generate extra warnings, it is away in next version, i promise..

Using command ngc -s you can se what service that is failing, also watch tty12.

if a service fails, you have to zap its state with ngc -z service, if you change the config file, you have to remove te in ram cache with ngc -r service, after that you can ngc -d service or ngc -u service..

Restart failing services, and watch output on tty12, and you can se wats wrong..

What distro is you using?


First off, I updated baselayout to 1.11.10-r7 (unstable) and now getty starts and I can log in (didn't happen before).

coldplug and localmount also seem to work fine now.

But a couple of problems, first of all I don't think all of my services (from /etc/runlevels/boot) exist in /etc/initng/*. But when I add the ones that do exist to /etc/initng/system.runlevel some of them fail, notably acpid. On tty12 acpid says "invalid option -- f".

I'm running gentoo.

EDIT: right now only acpid fails.

I realize some services are still missing so the comparison isn't entirely fair but from a coldboot > login prompt I get 72 seconds with gentoo and 42 seconds with initng so good job! :)

EDIT2: services in boot/default missing from initng:
cpudyn
ivman
lisa
vixie-cron
gpm
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gpm.i
Code:
service daemon/gpm {
    depends = system/initial system/checkroot
    daemon = /usr/sbin/gpm
    daemon_args = -m /dev/input/mice -t ps2
    pid_file = /var/run/gpm.pid
   
}


vixie-cron.i
Code:
service daemon/vixie-cron {
        need = system/initial system/clock system/localmount
        #provide = cron
        #virtual_use = logger
        daemon = /usr/sbin/cron
        pid_file = /var/run/cron.pid
}

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimmyW wrote:
"Schmoly", i cant find the word in spell or dictionary wont find it, are you drunk?

Hehe, no, not drunk. "Holy schmoly" is a common US-english expression. The word "schmoly" is a made up word, substituting "shit". "Holy shit!" is an expression of surprise (usually positive).

Quote:
Did you re-partition, and installing linux on yor wifes machine, thats bad! Mine woud not be happy.

No, my wife already uses Linux (Gentoo) ;).

Quote:
Did all services start correctly? did everything worked fine? i dont belive this.

As far as I can tell, yes, everything is started correctly and works fine.
I did have some problems with dependencies (kdm wouldn't start, unless I made it dependend on getty, and some other ones), and made some ".i" files for my own, but after that it's working fine.

reboot seems a little too quick actually and I'm wondering if it actually shuts down all the services? Also Ctl+Alt+Del shuts down the services, but gets "stuck" towards the end. Pressing it again will reboot the system after a few more messages.

I'm sure the problems can be worked out, and then initng will be a great alternative to init.

Quote:
Im loking for how to spread this software outside Unsupported Software, in gentoo forum, do you have andy suggestions?

Move your project to Sourceforge. Then also add it to Freshmeat as a project. And post an article about it on http://kuro5hin.org, and email Eugenia at http://osnews.com. That should just about do it :D.

Quote:
I woud like som extra contributors, this project is growing to large for me to handle, i deperatly need som documentation written, i hope someone can help me out here...

I'm sure you'll get people to help soon. Once my notebook is back I'll try to help as well.

Right now, make sure you get peole up and running well and easily, so they get excited about the project.

Btw. the 0.0.6 ebuild needs indent? So either add indent as a dependency, or remove it from the build process. indent was only needed for you to format the code and check it in. It isn't needed for the users to compile initng.

Cheers,
Andre
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eGore911
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick note: initNG was on OSnews
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=10513

Guess your line will be stressed soon :)
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to have the last version just use that ebuild:
http://overlay.mafteah.co.il/sys-apps/initng/initng-0.1.ebuild

It will get the source from svn and emerge it :)
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been testing what initNG is able to do. It's a quite impressive speedup (didn't measure time, but that change is obvious). Only two things bother me:
- I had to readd all services that are started at bootup (ok, it's not that bad, but it's work), so a migration tool would be good
- I did not understand to bring up eth0 by default. Can someone point that out to me?
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/etc/initng/net/eth0.i
Code:
# eth0 is static.
service net/eth0 {
    depends = system/initial system/checkroot system/modules
    use = system/static-modules system/coldplug
    start {
        echo "Starting net/$NAME now"
        ifconfig $NAME 10.0.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0
        route add -net 0.0.0.0 gw 10.0.0.138
    }
    stop {
        echo "Stopping net/$NAME now"
        ifconfig $NAME down
    }
}   

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