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Devport
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose anybody here knows about colinux ? Allows you to run your native gentoo box on windows. No joke.

http://files.codepilot.net/CoLinux2.jpg

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-163154-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-colinux-start-0.html
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a lot of linux under windows because of different aproach and llicences...

there is cyrgwin
there is uwin
all theses 2 approach are running on the win32 subsystem
->slower
->some tricks have been made in order to have an unix environement inside windows

there SFU
owned by microsoft
as it is owned by microsoft
-may not work uder react-os
=> look in wikipedia in order to know if you can install it on your version of windows(xp pro,2k,server2003...)
it's directly linked to the kernel

=>as i know theses aproach are more integrated into windows than co-linux

there is co-linux(i tryed this one)
open-source and experimental project:
-gentoo works
-problem for the network between linux and windows(that is not for efraying people but sometimes it's quite simple and sometimes it's very hard but acheving ths is posible i anycases (i think i'm not shure))
-problem(on the experimental 2.6 one but will be resolved)
-may work under react-os(gpl clone fo windows that use wine dll and a kernel made in this project)
=>in this approach linux act as a different machine connected by a network to windows(yes it can run apps under windows to:see the colinux wiki) with it's ext3 gentoo loop
colinux can work as a service or an application...

comparaison with a normal linux distribution:
the linux kernel itself implement the posix system call and all this stuf (wikipedia->linux)
so...:
->faster
->cleaner (no need for tricks in order to make it posix compilant...)


Last edited by GNUtoo on Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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devsk
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think once you use colinux, you won't feel like using cygwin or SFU. As far as this thread's main goal is concerned, colinux is a full fledged linux and portage works as it would on any gentoo system. So, you can have your favourite linux apps running under windows at almost native speeds (much much faster than cygwin can ever imagine). Networking worked for me OOTB because I followed directions to the T, but has been reported by the colinux users as the PITA.

I haven't touched my cygwin-based portage install (which works very well though) for a while now just because of colinux and I don't think I ever will.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

does someone knows wich solution is the best in order to:
-be installed/deployed very fast
-can emerge--sync or emerge-webrsync
-cen emerge --fetchonly
=>meant to download distfiles only

=>co-linux can't be deployed quickly(the network configuration/installation is quite tough)
=>wget+md5 ported to windows can download the distfiles:
emerge psckadge>file.download
...
but:it can't do emerge --sync :
it needs to be sincronised with the gentoo distrib and can't be sincronised with the lastest portage tree that have just been downloaded
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay... one thing I should point out... No, SFU is not opensource. It's a proprietry WinNT subsystem based on OpenBSD (AFAICT ... it's definately got BSD roots).

As for the emerge sync -- rsync should do what you want on its own. There is a Win32 port of it, which runs as a daemon -- and there shouldn't be any nasties to stop you using that as a portage tree mirror.

CoLinux is another alternative to this project... as is just running Gentoo in a QEMU VM. :-)
For the moment, the Gentoo/SFU project has somewhat taken a back seat... as I have more pressing needs now. But I'll get to it............eventually.....
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i didn't say sfu WAS opensource but that it was derivated from an open-source project buyed from microsoft
you probably know that the owner(the man who sold it not microsoft) of a open-source project can re-license it to another licence (so a company can use it for comercial apps but users still benefit the gpl version)
that's what i heard...but mabe i'm wrong
by the way:
why not trying to have a react-os kernel instead of the proprietary windows one:
this may be easyer to programs because of avaliable sources and
this would make things more easely integrable for the final user
but mabe the react-os kernel isn't already at the nt kernel level of suport for hardware/software
in the http://gentooexperimental.org/nt/gentoo-nt-faq.html they says that the 2.6 isn't stable
but are there now(2.6.14) less stable than the nt kernel(only the kernel) if:
-the vanilla sources are used
-there aren't too many "experimental" options selected and none of the "unstable" or "dangerous" one
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Whoa boy... with that bad English, you could've fooled me.)
I'm not even sure that SFU was derived from an opensource project. Microsoft bought out Interix, formerly known as OpenNT (which was OpenBSD based). The only opensource project in amongst those is OpenBSD.

Okay... the GeNToo FAQ you reference there... don't worry about what that says. It's all a wind-up, last year's April Fools Joke.
When I get back to working on Gentoo/SFU, I'll be putting up a new FAQ, etc... But first, I want to get something going that is usable.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was surprised that no one mentioned in this thread that netbsd has a port that runs on interix. There are a number of binary packages available that run on SFU located at ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/pkgsrc/packages/Interix-3.5/i386/current/.

These include package utilities (pkg_add, pkg_delete etc) and netbsd ports on the Interix (posix) subsystem, without any cygwin dll.

Worth checking out!

Boyd
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boydo: Cheers for that... didn't think to check out NetBSD...
This is a good thing, I'll have a look when I have the time.

There's already a dev working on Gentoo/NetBSD (see thund3r in #gentoo-bsd), so this definately opens possibilities for running Gentoo on SFU, using NetBSD as a sort of intermediate layer.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stuff to follow, as I do unix sysadmin at work, but also need to interact with SFU. I also have installed the Interopsystems stuff. There is admittedly better support there, (compared to netbsd) but for limited packages, and only binary. I should have mentioned in my previous post that there is the whole /pkgsrc source files of packages at netbsd.org that mostly build on SFU. Just not a whole lot of documentation. Took me a while to find that you have to bmake instead of make. I had wanted to get gnome and in particular gnucash running. I think I probably got 80% built. Sometimes a missing header file etc, but the netbsd 'ports' stuff basically runs on SFU. I did run into some issues though, and not being a developer/programmer, don't have enough knowledge to troubleshoot. I bet a guy like you could get a gnome desktop up without too much problems!


Cheers.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, don't be too sure about that... it doesn't take much skill to ROOT=/foo emerge -e system (for generating seed stages) and use catalyst. :-)

http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-pkg/2004/03/11/0048.html and
http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/pkgsrc/platforms.html#interix have some useful notes.

This is definately something I'm going to have to fiddle with. :-)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redhatter wrote:
(Whoa boy... with that bad English, you could've fooled me.)
I'm not even sure that SFU was derived from an opensource project. Microsoft bought out Interix, formerly known as OpenNT (which was OpenBSD based). The only opensource project in amongst those is OpenBSD.

Okay... the GeNToo FAQ you reference there... don't worry about what that says. It's all a wind-up, last year's April Fools Joke.
When I get back to working on Gentoo/SFU, I'll be putting up a new FAQ, etc... But first, I want to get something going that is usable.

mabe the name make the persons who told me about this says that it was open-source
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is it possible to run this on cygwin?
i'll try to install sfu tomorow(for easyer administration and forensics(in order to find undetected viruses quickly) of a windows machine...so i can run scripts and such things because installing each unix utility such as md5 is too long to do) but as far as the computer run windows 2000 "client"...i think that won't work...
wikipedia said that it worked only on severs verisons(winXPpro,win2kserver...)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://gentoocygwin.sourceforge.net/ <-- Indeed it is.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops...
it run on windows 2000 professional that is the standard one

by the way i understand why people developping geNToo are using sfu
http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/photo/special/2004/sfu/images/007l.jpg
it's directly interfaced with the kernel...
http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/special/2004/sfu/001.html is the main article...does someone speek japanese???

now i have a worm that has render the computer inusable...so i need to remove it before
i am using clamav(before kav) but it cann't scan files before opening them(developers are working on implementing this feature)
mabe i'll try sfu...
i think i'll install both
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent a bit of time getting portage working on the cygwin. But then I found colinux. If we can run linux under windows why would anyone want to run unix apps thru a slower interface like cygwin. With colinux and now, with free vmware player (you can easily install gentoo under vmplayer), you can unleash the full power of linux within Windows and run the full spectrum of apps. Try one of those, you will never mess with cygwin or SFU again.

http://colinux.org
http://www.vmware.com/products/player/
http://fucoder.com/2005/10/install-gentoo-linux-vmware-windows-xp/

I currently have both colinux and vmplayer running Gentoo. vmplayer runs on windows x64, so that's my choice for my new system.

gimp running inside of cygwin environment was about 5x slower (load time) than one running under colinux, and 8x slower than the native linux install. I never got that far with SFU, but other compile times indicated SFU was about 2x to 3x faster than cygwin. colinux is the fastest of the lot, but hard to setup (network part), and didn't work at all on x64. vmplayer is close enough in performance to colinux.

just my 2 cents on this effort.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
gimp running inside of cygwin environment was about 5x slower (load time)

you seems interested in load times...
so try prelinking...

i know colinux
but...i want native unix apps inside windows
cygwin and uwin run inside win32 subsystem:
kernel<=>win32<=>cygwin
and sfu is directly interfaceds to the kernel
kernel<=>sfu

so it is more faster and more unix...(no need for tricks in order to bypass some problems due to the windows and win43 architcture)

colinux is great...but it's goal is having a linux machine inside windows...as it were another computer...
here i want a perfect integration inside windows...as it was a unix with a proprietary kernel and graphic system(X11+wm)

SFU is great...
->fast
->can compile apps for this platform(i compiled wget)
->i'll search for some x11 compatibility later

but it has the windows console...mabe xterm works?
by the way is it possible to have a standart us keyboard inside the console and have another keyboard layout inside windows

[i think it was solved(no more contdown to reboot untill now)]
:oops: does someone knows windows forums...i've a worm and i'm not as good at windows that at linux...and my windows knowladge is gone..,(i don't know if i have a worm or not and i've forgetten pretty evrything about windows...too old in my memory)


Last edited by GNUtoo on Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="new_to_non_X86"]
Quote:

i know colinux
but...i want native unix apps inside windows
cygwin and uwin run inside win32 subsystem:
kernel<=>win32<=>cygwin
and sfu is directly interfaceds to the kernel
kernel<=>sfu

I know what SFU is. I have used it and found it quite good myself. But try porting apps to it, you will know that its bsd like (like is the keyword) ux flavour is far from enough for that. If I remember correctly, when I was using portage on SFU, I couldn't get it to compile "tar" utility. I went much far with portage on cygwin though, like emerged much of GNOME and KDE suites.

Also, I wanna mention that app start times (ignoring first run) are a good indication of how good the APIs of the unix "emulation" layer are. How good a file open, or 'socket' or a 'select' call is not speeded up by DLL or .so preloading. Remember that SFU is still an emulation layer of unix (although it is much thinner than cygwin), and your ported app won't still be "NATIVE" unix app.

My point is that if your goal is to be able to run linux apps on windows without much hassle and with great performance, then there are alternatives other than spending so much time on porting portage to SFU. I actually kinda feel stupid now when I look back at how much time I spent on portage on SFU and cygwin, when I could run a full fledged linux app at almost native speed (and faster than I could manage with SFU/cygwin) without porting it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

new_to_non_X86 wrote:


but it has the windows console...mabe xterm works?


a port of rxvt exists which doesn't need cygwin dll. I used that at the time, alongwith a simple install of Xming, the best free X server for windows, again without the need of cygwin dll. what else one needs...:-)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Gentoo_on_WINDOWS
i'm making this wiki(because i'm installing portage on sfu)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've a very important question:
i want to make an install script(that of course i'll distribute it in the wiki) (my work will be slow(please don't be too much exigent) because the windows machine is shared by several persons and i can't install portage when they are surfing...)
and so comes the LEGAL ISSUES...
in order to install all this the user need to download the files...
and wget can do the thing well
->can i include in my script
Code:
wget www.microsoft.com/.../sfu.exe

->can include the download of the tool warhouse too with:
Code:
wget www..../*

it would be a lot more easy...
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the sources:
on the download page the is the links to the binaries and the sources
but the links are not all valid
on the ftp site you can see only certain sources and not all
so mabe they will be added later
and mabe we could optain the python sources
but bsd has them...in the tarball of python (use the links of this forum)


other stuff:
we need only python???
there is no need for md5sum and wget???
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redhatter wrote:
Damn... it was free when I first attempted this.

and unfortunately... Python, in its default config, doesn't compile on SFU.

Mind you... Python is under the GPL... so I'm almost tempted to go bugging Interop Systems for the source to their Python binary. They'd be obligated to provide the said patches wouldn't they?

python in gpl???
http://packages.gentoo.org/packages/?category=dev-lang;name=python
its licence is psf...if i remember well you you need to summit your changes to the python fondation but the distribution of the binaries are permitted without the need of distributing rhe source
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

knowing about the fact that interix was broken...i discovered that there were fix avaliable for this platform...
help about the installation of sfu and problems http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/pkgsrc/platforms.html
here the microsoft's fixes that can produce a stable environement... http://www.duh.org/interix/hotfixes.php
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe it's a little off the point by now...
HOWEVER

in your initial post you say you have problems with the "Administrator" account using the root functions.
Why not change the name of the Windows root (Administrator). I know it is possible, since I did it on a school XP-Prof box.

There are 2 possible ways to change the Admin name:
1st. You need to log on using remote Administration on the Administrator account from an XP-Prof box.
I only knwo the German names in the System-Control Panel, so you might have to think around the corner to get what I mean.. :-)

1st.
Go to Administration (Screwdriver Icon) and into computer Administration (monitor icon) [or directly log in using comp. admin., if it is supported by the SFU version].
Look for the local user and group settings, there should be a user list.
choose rename for "Administrator"

2nd
The Box we were given by the school for students council has some kind of security related options (maybe a key icon?).
Opening (or directly connecting from a similar xp box) that interface you will find an option named somewhat like "Superadmin name". There's also a "guest name" option, in case you want to create a noboy user......

I don't know whether one of those options will work for you, but you can try if you wish
I'm sure it's somewhere hidden in the system.dat file in S(t??)FU as well

Have fun
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