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mudrii
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all
I have some problem with your CFLAGS
Code:
CFLAGS="-O3 -march=pentium -fforce-addr -momit-leaf-frame-pointer -fomit-frame-pointer -ftracer -pipe"

For -momit-leaf-frame-pointe
Code:

To tell the compiler to stop adding debug information, remove the -g option from CFLAGS. Then, in its place, add -fomit-frame-pointer. This tells gcc to free up another of the x86's limited number of registers for general use, and is probably the single greatest improvement you can have, as gcc likes lots of registers. If you do want debug info and you're using gcc 3.X, you can keep the -g option and add -momit-leaf-frame-pointer. This gives you the advantages of -fomit-frame-pointer in some cases while still keeping useful debugging information.

Info from http://raevnos.pennmush.org/pennmush/opt.html
And why you do not include LDFLAGS in make.conf ?
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moocha
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mudrii wrote:
Hi all
I have some problem with your CFLAGS
Code:
CFLAGS="-O3 -march=pentium -fforce-addr -momit-leaf-frame-pointer -fomit-frame-pointer -ftracer -pipe"

For -momit-leaf-frame-pointe
Code:

To tell the compiler to stop adding debug information, remove the -g option from CFLAGS. Then, in its place, add -fomit-frame-pointer. This tells gcc to free up another of the x86's limited number of registers for general use, and is probably the single greatest improvement you can have, as gcc likes lots of registers. If you do want debug info and you're using gcc 3.X, you can keep the -g option and add -momit-leaf-frame-pointer. This gives you the advantages of -fomit-frame-pointer in some cases while still keeping useful debugging information.

Info from http://raevnos.pennmush.org/pennmush/opt.html
I have no problem with those CFLAGS.
The GCC manual wrote:
-momit-leaf-frame-pointer
Don't keep the frame pointer in a register for leaf functions. This avoids the instructions to save, set up and restore frame pointers and makes an extra register available in leaf functions. The option -fomit-frame-pointer removes the frame pointer for all functions which might make debugging harder.

Info from http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.4.3/gcc/i386-and-x86_002d64-Options.html#i386-and-x86_002d64-Options, emphasis mine.
mudrii wrote:
And why you do not include LDFLAGS in make.conf ?
Probably either because gbkyle isn't aware of its existence and usage, or because LDFLAGS breaks some stuff, notably packages that link against libmysqlclient.so.
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gbkyle
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fixed it by removing the LDFLAGS
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gbkyle wrote:
I fixed it by removing the LDFLAGS


no surprises there. :wink: LDFLAGS aren't recommended in the Guide because as moocha pointed out, they can break things.

gents, THIS is a Documentation forum, not a Support forum. if you would be so kind as to post future support requests in the Support Thread, that would help everyone, and it would prevent me from repeatedly posting those boldfaced red warnings that are designed to get your attention. :idea:
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mudrii
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@moocha
It is not a point at all to leave booth optimization
Use only one of optimization but not booth
If option -fomit-frame-pointer removes the frame pointer for all functions and -momit-leaf-frame-pointerremove the frame pointer in a register for leaf functions only.
So idea is use only one of them but is nit sense to use booth.
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moocha
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mudrii wrote:
@moocha
It is not a point at all to leave booth optimization
Use only one of optimization but not booth
If option -fomit-frame-pointer removes the frame pointer for all functions and -momit-leaf-frame-pointerremove the frame pointer in a register for leaf functions only.
So idea is use only one of them but is nit sense to use booth.
This is an actually argument that belongs on the CFLAGS Central threads, not on this one, but I on't like disinformation so I'll still respond here:
-fomit-frame-pointer does not imply -omit-leaf-frame-pointer. The documentation is slightly misleading. Test it yourself with something along the lines of
Code:
touch foo.c
gcc -march=i686 -Q -v -fomit-frame-pointer
There is no -momit-frame-pointer in the output. Then create a small test program a la Hello, World, compile it with -S once with -fomit-frame-pointer and once with both -fomit-frame-pointer and -momit-leaf-frame-pointer and look at the differences in the assembler output. You will see that the generated code differs.
Not to mention that grepping around the portage tree shows that there are ebuilds that filter -fomit-frame-pointer, which indicates that those (few) packages don't compile properly without it. By contrast, -omit-frame-pointer isn't specifically filtered anywhere, so it's arguably safe to add to ALLOWED_FLAGS in make.conf (don't use ALLOWED_FLAGS unless you know exactly what the implications are, though!). -fomit-frame-pointer isn't safe for those packages and by implication isn't safe globally if you use those packages, but -momit-frame-pointer is (at least in my experience).
In conclusion, -fomit-frame-pointer and -momit-leaf-frame-pointer should both be specified. I happen to know what I'm talking about. Please don't make assertions unless you have checked for yourself.
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regeya
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentree wrote:

PDF is a crock of shit anyway , scalable illegability for ppl who cant create a page of html an make it look right. (ie without using FuntPage)


When I get to work on Monday, I'll make sure to call our Konica rep and ask why our imagesetter isn't able to handle HTML.

There are legitimate reasons for using PDF.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the link to the jackass project has been either down
or changed since I couldn't find a good link in this thread
for several days. Anyway I just did it the old fashioned way,
I followed the instructions in the pdf and 3 days later .....
I have a brand new system on my PIII-933 box. So far
looks good. Next step will be to emerge xorg, kde, and
mythtv.

Other than using ext3 instead of reiserfs, and leaving the
splash screen out of grub, I followed the guidelines as
published. Very good guide, though I did have to refer
back to the ghb now and then where some details were
a little bit light.

I'll probably download the pentium tarball now that
I've found a working link to the download page. I have
a K6-300 system that I'd like to try this on.
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scharkalvin
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: what about amd-64 Reply with quote

Quote:
This Guide is for x86 systems only.
This Guide is not for AMD64 systems.

If that isn't enough to convince you, then consider this: Gentoo 2005.0 for AMD64 already comes with GCC 3.4.3, so this Guide is unnecessary. :!:


AHHH
I guess the problem was the guide is titled stage 1 on 3,
NOT how to build gentoo using gcc 3.4.3.
(what threading model is the stock amd64 install cd and ghb using?)


Still you DO give some nice points on
1: getting ntp to work (until I followed your directions it never did)
even though it was so simple.
2: setting up grub (between your guide and the ghb it finally worked the
first time for me)
3: some neat shell tricks for rc-update and kernel compiles

So now after building a PIII system using the guide I think I'm in better mental shape to
go back and try getting my Athlon64 going, substituting some of the ideas in your x86 guide
for instructions in the ghb WHERE THEY APPLY.
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George Harrison
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... I am deeply interested in this. I have installed 2004.3 countless times through trial and error, all that I can say is that it's a most excellent OS and Portage is the greatest. After seeing the thread I immediately became interested. Although I am a bit confused here on what exactly I want to install. Is the Jackass! Project the same thing as the 1/3? I wouldn't ask this but I have use AMD over Intel and I noticed that Jackass! had an arch with Athlon-xp which is very nice and might just save me some confusion. So can I still keep the interest/excitement flowing with the 1/3 install but being able to understand it all with a Jackass CD? Thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

indeed if there is a jackass for your architecture you should get it. it is very similar (if not identical) to a 1/3 install, and will save you a whole lot of time and effort. Unless of course you like to spend hours watching a computer compile stuff. Then again, this 1/3 install does not support AMD, so Jackass is the way to go for you
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll speak for Jackass! on this one. A Jackass! stage is basically a stage 1/3 install packaged up and slapped on a cd for you to enjoy. It has all the benefits of a Stage 1/3 install (NPTL, gcc 3.4.3) and none of the drawbacks (time, time, and more time). That said, if you want to be hands on and craft your system yourself, by all means do a stage 1/3. Just a sidenote, Naveg said that the stage 1/3 doesn't support AMD, but in fact the stage 1/3 is supported on all x86 AMD subarches (everything but AMD64).
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George Harrison
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.

I think I'll opt for the Jackass! then, Finals are coming up soon and I have very little time - otherwise I would. I have an Athlon-XP 2600 so I think I'm just about set for the arch. Thanks for the advice, I just can't find myself putting all my focus on my studies for me to pass my classes and at the same time trying to learn a new (harder) Gentoo install. Well thanks again for the advice.
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Naveg
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sith_Happens wrote:
Just a sidenote, Naveg said that the stage 1/3 doesn't support AMD, but in fact the stage 1/3 is supported on all x86 AMD subarches (everything but AMD64).


My mistake, I stand corrected
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 2:07 pm    Post subject: GCC still @ 3.3 Reply with quote

Hello All!

I'm trying to follow the Stage 1/3 Installation for Gentoo 2005.0 guide. When compiling the gcc to 3.4. Assuming that all went well after hrs compiling. This morning all was said and done. I did a gcc-config -l, and 3.3 was listed and not 3.4. So, what the heck did it compile then, 3.3 again?
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

please refer to the support thread for all support requests. this problem has already been discussed and the answer is there.
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TobiWan
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 12:36 pm    Post subject: Copyleft please. Reply with quote

Bob P wrote:
in response to my decision not to allow PDF transcripts of the Stage 1/3 Guide on other websites, people are now interested in creating "blog" versions of the Guide on third party sites. i guess this is one case where if people think they have a loophole, they will try to drive a truck through it. just to be clear:

The Stage 1/3 Installation Guide is a Copyrighted document. All Rights are reserved by the author. Rights for reproduction and distribution of said document are granted to the Gentoo Discussion Forums and the Gentoo Foundation. Rights for reproduction and distribution of the Stage 1/3 Installation Guide in any format are expressly denied to all other parties.


In the interest of the OSS spirit you should rethink your copyright and maybe change it to copyleft or creative commons. Other than that I appreciate your efforts and explanations. Nice work.

regards,
Tobias
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Copyleft please. Reply with quote

TobiWan wrote:
Bob P wrote:
in response to my decision not to allow PDF transcripts of the Stage 1/3 Guide on other websites, people are now interested in creating "blog" versions of the Guide on third party sites. i guess this is one case where if people think they have a loophole, they will try to drive a truck through it. just to be clear:

The Stage 1/3 Installation Guide is a Copyrighted document. All Rights are reserved by the author. Rights for reproduction and distribution of said document are granted to the Gentoo Discussion Forums and the Gentoo Foundation. Rights for reproduction and distribution of the Stage 1/3 Installation Guide in any format are expressly denied to all other parties.


In the interest of the OSS spirit you should rethink your copyright and maybe change it to copyleft or creative commons. Other than that I appreciate your efforts and explanations. Nice work.

regards,
Tobias
I like that idea. But the stage 1/3 guide is entirely Bob P's work, so the distribution license (if any) is up to him.
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as long as you cite the author its not an infringement is it? For example.....

The following is an excerpt from Bob P's guide hosted on forums.gentoo.org entitled "blah blah":

yada yada
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TobiWan
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naveg wrote:
as long as you cite the author its not an infringement is it? For example.....

The following is an excerpt from Bob P's guide hosted on forums.gentoo.org entitled "blah blah":

yada yada


I disagree. Citing is not publishing large excerpts.

It's great we have such a nice documentation about how to perform this kind of installation yet I really am sorry that this documentation is in violation with core principles of the Gentoo foundation and FOSS in general.

If it's personal fame the author wants he can still use the FDL and its invariant sections rules and at the same time offer something under an acceptable license that others can improve and republish.

Nevertheless, this is his decision since he is the author. For the future I would like to see only acceptable licensed works in the Gentoo forums though. I don't see why forums to free and open software should publish non-free documentation.

regards,
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TobiWan wrote:

I disagree. Citing is not publishing large excerpts.

It's great we have such a nice documentation about how to perform this kind of installation yet I really am sorry that this documentation is in violation with core principles of the Gentoo foundation and FOSS in general.

If it's personal fame the author wants he can still use the FDL and its invariant sections rules and at the same time offer something under an acceptable license that others can improve and republish.

Nevertheless, this is his decision since he is the author. For the future I would like to see only acceptable licensed works in the Gentoo forums though. I don't see why forums to free and open software should publish non-free documentation.

regards,
Tobias


I remeber reading something about it being released under gpl-compatible license when it´s finished. Until then the only places entities allowed to publish it are gentoo foundation and gentoo forums.
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravv wrote:

I remeber reading something about it being released under gpl-compatible license when it´s finished.


Which means that nobody can add or improve the documentation but the author.

In my opinion this thing is well written and could be extended to be integrated as an official yet still optional way of installing Gentoo Linux in the official Gentoo handbook.

I'll give the thing a try in about two weeks when I have more time to do a clean Gentoo installation on a spare machine.

regards,
Tobias
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TobiWan wrote:
It's great we have such a nice documentation about how to perform this kind of installation yet I really am sorry that this documentation is in violation with core principles of the Gentoo foundation and FOSS in general.
...
For the future I would like to see only acceptable licensed works in the Gentoo forums though. I don't see why forums to free and open software should publish non-free documentation. (emphasis added)

The Stage 1/3 Installation Method's documentation is NOT in violation of the core principles of the Gentoo foundation, so i'm rather surprised to hear you say that. i am not the first person to copyright their work in Documentation, Tips & Tricks, and i probably won't be the last.

on a bigger scale, if you scroll down to the bottom of this page, you'll see that the Gentoo Foundation Inc. has Copyrighted everything on this site, and that this site has not been released under any sort of free documentation license. my copyright notice has only served to restate what the Gentoo Foundation has already established as their policy -- that the contents of this site are copyrighted. :idea:

personally, i don't see much point in returning to this discussion over and over again, as the topic has been addressed already. so i hope that this will be the last time that I have to reply about it. nonetheless, we continue to have our share of people offer opinions without bothering to adequately research the facts before they've spoken. my recommendation would be to get the facts straight before criticizing someone who is giving away their work. you can do this by reading the text of the copyright notice in the PDF document and comparing it to the text of the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.0 documentation license. Anyone with the naivety to suggest that I should modify my Copyright notice to look like a Creative Commons copyright will undoubtedly be surprised by what they read. :!:
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TobiWan wrote:
If it's personal fame the author wants he can still use the FDL and its invariant sections rules and at the same time offer something under an acceptable license that others can improve and republish.

People commonly proclaim that "Gentoo is about choice." I agree, and I think that "choice" is a good thing. In fairness to the people who are exercising creativity and creating novel works, they should have just as much power of choice to determine how their work product will be published / distributed / licensed -- especially if they're giving their work away. People who give away their time and their intellectual property should be free to give it away on their own terms, and they should not be compelled to give away their work on someone else's terms -- that would be the equivalent of slavery. Personally, I will stop helping people before I will become a slave to some master who dictates that I should work on his terms and receive only what he thinks is appropriate compensation for my efforts.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TobiWan wrote:
For the future I would like to see only acceptable licensed works in the Gentoo forums though. I don't see why forums to free and open software should publish non-free documentation.

Revisiting again the topic of "choice" --

1. Gentoo has the choice of allowing anyone to publish here under any copyright and/or license arrangement that Gentoo sees fit. I don't see that Gentoo has anything to gain by having their choices restricted in the manner you've suggested.

2. If someone were to bar the publication of copyrighted works on the Gentoo Forums, that would only serve to diminish choice on the part of people who want to contribute -- and the result would be that some people would be less inclined to contribute. This in turn, would result in fewer people contributing to Gentoo -- something along the lines of Rand's "strike of the great minds." IMNSHO making the proposition that the Gentoo Forums should ban copyrighted works constitutes a very naive and counter-productive approach to the subject. It only serves to restrict the flow of information.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that if the Gentoo Forums had had a policy in effect which would have prevented me from publishing copyrighted work, then there would have been no Stage 1/3 Installation Method and there would have been no Jackass! Project. (The Jackass! Project, I would like to point out -- is one where I wrote all of the system's configuration specifications and published the Copyrighted works via a GPL license.) Now tell me, would banning copyrighted works be better or worse for the Gentoo Community? That's a rhetorical question. I really don't want an answer, as I think the answer should be obvious to everyone.

Personally, I find it objectionable that when I am giving away my time and effort, that people should be so bold as to complain that I am not giving away enough, or that I am not giving it away in a manner that suits them. Negative reinforcement only serves to diminish the likelihood that desirable behavior will be repeated. :roll:
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