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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do I suspect I'd also regret posting an explanation of how to override flag filtering here? After all, we only put in flag filtering because we want to keep the top sekrit optimisations to ourselves, not because they're necessary... Hrm, don't think I'll let the cat out of the bag on that one.
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pilla
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
pilla wrote:
I remember when I was a child and we didn't care about optimization (after all, it was BASIC).

no no no, when you were a child pilla, it was COBOL :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yeah, I learnt COBOL too (when I was 15).
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilla wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
pilla wrote:
I remember when I was a child and we didn't care about optimization (after all, it was BASIC).

no no no, when you were a child pilla, it was COBOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, I learnt COBOL too (when I was 15).

damn, i thought I was trying to be funny :cry:
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pilla
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
pilla wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
pilla wrote:
I remember when I was a child and we didn't care about optimization (after all, it was BASIC).

no no no, when you were a child pilla, it was COBOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, I learnt COBOL too (when I was 15).

damn, i thought I was trying to be funny :cry:


:D
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
Why do I suspect I'd also regret posting an explanation of how to override flag filtering here? After all, we only put in flag filtering because we want to keep the top sekrit optimisations to ourselves, not because they're necessary... Hrm, don't think I'll let the cat out of the bag on that one.


ARGH! I keep forgetting all of this stuff. Thanks again ciaranm for not revealing such things! Updating...

EDIT: Updated. If anyone can think of a much simpler way to disable filter-flags/strip-flags, feel free to let me know. I know that will work and it was easy to think of, hence the reason I wrote it down.

EDIT #2: Good call ebrostig. Updating again...

EDIT #3: Done. Got some good stuff from pilla in too!
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Last edited by discomfitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ebrostig
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget cross-compilation!

Every ricer with any selfrespect KNOWS that crosscompiling your x86 code on a faster arcithecture (SUN E10K SPARC or Dual PPC's), gives a much faster binary!

Erik
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to add to the cross compilation, as we are adding in all our special CFLAGS, CXXFLAGS and targets for #include.h we could compile (or crosscompile as erik said) with our optimisations but then decompile and compile again.

This would make sure of 2 things:
  • Any upgradable compilation missed on the first time would be found and compiled in on the 2nd time.
  • Possible speed upgrade decompiling with HOST and TARGET set.
  • We can look more of an expert because therre is more text scrolling by :wink:

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yaneurabeya
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw... you guys are stealing my dreams from me... I WANTED to cross compile on 10-20 mac G5's :P.
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DoctorPizza
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilla wrote:
DoctorPizza wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
yaneurabeya wrote:
I know I was just joking (well, partially; mostly thinking about quicksort under some cases :P). That would of course be the holy grail of computer science if someone figured out that :D. There are specialized algorithms though which under certain cases do function in log(n) time though of course :).

Eh? No, a log(N) sorting algorithm is impossible (except in special cases where you know that, say, only the first item is out of place). Doing a guaranteed time n*log(N) sort is easy, and doesn't involve anything even remotely related to qsort. Going beyond log-linear in the general case is impossible.

*Comparison* sorts that are better than O(N log N) (where the base of the logarithm is the number of elements you can simultaneously compare), but non-comparison sorts (radix sorts, bin sorts, "spaghetti sorts") are O(N).


do you mean O(N^2)?

Nope, O(N); the sort time increases linearly with the number of elements being sorted. It also increases with the length of the elements being sorted (not an issue if you're comparing fixed-size integers, but it may be an issue for e.g. strings; whilst a comparison function only needs to compare enough bytes of each string to detect a difference, radix sort must blindly continue until it's sorted the strings at every single position).

Radix sorting is, however, general; it can be used with minor modifications on IEEE floating point numbers (treating them as if they were 4 (single precision) or 8 (double precision) byte integers) and it can be used on strings if some care is taken. And with some work it can be made to require only constant extra storage space ("American Flag" sort) which makes it both fast and small.

A "spaghetti sort" takes advantage of N-way comparisons (so the log N term is 1, for an O(N) sort); stand all the pieces of (dry) spaghetti on a table and pick the tallest piece each time; N pieces must be picked for O(N) overall performance.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
Why do I suspect I'd also regret posting an explanation of how to override flag filtering here? After all, we only put in flag filtering because we want to keep the top sekrit optimisations to ourselves, not because they're necessary... Hrm, don't think I'll let the cat out of the bag on that one.


I knew it, in fact you're the best ricer ever :wink: !!! This must be the reason while pentium-m is often replaced by pentium 3, but I'm still wondering why -omg-optimized and -fenable-nos seemed not to be filtered by ebuilds, there must be a well hidden trick... still looking for it
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vrln
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice thread. How about adding a cronjob to recompile most commonly used applications at least once or twice every day? Preferably CVS ebuilds (and before that /usr/portage/distfiles/cvs-src of course needs to be deleted) as sourceforge will absolutely love that :P Every hardcore ricer knows that applications are faster when they've just been compiled - I mean, you can just FEEL it.


:)
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amne
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a cron job that does emerge sync every 30 minutes, adding an emerge -e world afterwards sounds like a good idea.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fallow wrote:
CiarianM - maybe You don`t see but my previous post is a joke ;)

and even You don`t know what I really have in mind about this things. (random patchsets, ricing etc. )
I exactly know what I know and what I don`t know about these things ^^^ :)


[not_a_joke_EDIT]

I must agreed that in this how-to ...everything is a true (as the sense of it )

more : this how-to can start new trend : a trend to non-ricing and way to stability and... non mass-full of features in patchsets like all the stuff from the world in the one pack. will be better.

I think this can work - required a some time only :) because -- most of things is a trend.

[/not_a_joke_EDIT]

cheers.


/me promotes non-ricing!

Also, fallow, don't steal my job away from me. I am the guy around here who creates the unoffical, stable, non-featurefull & scalable patchsets around here :P. Then again, thats why I started dark-sources..... I really didn't like nitro/love/etc, I needed somethings that ck had, but not everything and above all, I wanted stablity.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vrln and amne: Sounds good; I'll put it in when I get time (big deadline I have to meet in less than 6 hours!).

Other people: Keep in mind that we're trying to keep this semi-realistic. Everything in this howto COULD actually be done by ricers...sort of. That means (sorry cokehabit :? ) things such as decompiling and recompiling code to make it faster, while funny, don't quite apply to this. So keep the ideas coming, but know that I probably won't put them if they're too insane. I'll just laugh at them in the original post ;).

Also, if people want to contribute accurate and somewhat easy to understand explanations of what commonly abused *FLAGS do (for use in the non-ricing section) that would be spectacular. The man pages are a bit...dry, and I don't feel like searching through gcc mailing lists for hours on end to find a way of paraphrasing something.

EDIT: Updated with cron stuff and using gcc as a linker.
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Last edited by discomfitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget to add "-feverything-at-once -Wl,--wait-all" to your CFLAGS so that it compiles and linkseverything at the same time. This makes GCC be able to optimize things even further :wink: :lol:
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hahaha, this thread is funny. I'd actually like to see how many people were taking it seriously untill they saw that it was a joke :lol:
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
hahaha, this thread is funny. I'd actually like to see how many people were taking it seriously untill they saw that it was a joke :lol:


This was a joke.... DAMN!!!!! ^c ^c....
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sniff...anybody has a compile-farm to spare? XD

you should definitely make a site for a distribution called "ricer-linux" XD

try to make up some more hilarious flags. -omg-optimized is my personal favorite, works like a charm :]

but i thought that
Code:
CFLAGS="(...) -march=HAL9001 -straighten-every-loop -kamikaze-malloc"
USE="speedup"
CHOST=ricer-pc-linux-gnu"

would speed up things a bit...:D
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm amused by the occasional build that manually includes something like -O99

But here's a new flag for you..

Code:
-funroll-every-infinite-loop


You'd be amazed how well that one works. Especially with code like:
Code:
while (true)
{
...
}

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
hahaha, this thread is funny. I'd actually like to see how many people were taking it seriously untill they saw that it was a joke :lol:


Well, because of all the warnings, I guess only those who can't read took it seriously.
...
Ricers can't read. Oh well.



Also, this post is pretty patronizing...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you forgot to tell them to use reiser4 for the boot partition...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joey_knisch wrote:
you forgot to tell them to use reiser4 for the boot partition...

You mean ricer4
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*ssssh don't tell anyone*
Have you weenies never tried pulling /usr/include/linux and friends from bitkeeper?

Just add the bk pull to your glibc-cvs ebuild and reemerge every 30 min.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is fairly offtopic, however there are two points it seems everyone sort of forgets:

- Often what is referred to as "experimental" or beta software here is enormously closer to stable then your average Microsoft/Apple/etc/etc/etc product release

- Sometimes the "stable" software has more problems compared to the "unstable"

Example: aMule. The current version (~1.2.8 ?) invariably gets slower and slower on any machine I've used it on after running it for a few days - which is not ridiculous or even unusual considering the nature of the eDonkey network. On this box it gets to the point of occupying 99% of my cpu to download a few measly files at a whopping total of 20kbps after a while. 2.0.x beta works as far as I can tell flawlessly.

I just think the intensely negative attitude some people here have about aggressive cflags / kernel patches / etc - although not unjustified - isn't really in sync with the Gentoo philosophy.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And please don't forget... In order to get a real fast and really uber-1337 installation, make sure you install as many ebuilds as possible from this forum.

Erik
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