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pmazer
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:10 am    Post subject: Which laptop to run Gentoo on? Reply with quote

This is sort of an off shoot from the "Would you run Gentoo on a laptop?" thread. I'm looking to buy a laptop when I go off to college in the fall, and I was wondering people's opinions on which to buy. I'm looking to run Gentoo as the main operating system, but perhaps not. I'm also thinking about buying a Powerbook and just running MacOSX + Darwin.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter, or recommendations for a laptop? I was considering the Thinkpad T42 until I read that IBM is selling off the brand, and I'm worried about quality and support now.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have ferrari 3000 with gentoo .. Everything works fine ..

I think laptop with Athlon xp-m processor and Ati mobility radeon is good choice.. (cheap and useful for normal use) 8)

Powerbook is good choice too if you have some money :)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you put Gentoo on your laptop is a good place to start
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just one thing, I will never buy a Mac again. I have had nothing but problems with my iBook. Right now it is in the shop for the 3'rd time with the same issue. I also am not very fond of OSX... even though many people praise it, and it is heads above Windows, IMHO Linux is far better.

I know several others with iBooks and PowerBooks, and some of them have had problems and others have had everything work great, so I guess it is really a craps shoot. I unfortunatly have had by far the most problems of all of them.

One laptop that looks totally sweet is the Toshiba Protege R100. It only weighs 2 lbs! Although it may be more of a challenge to install gentoo on it since it had no cdrom, and apparently you can't boot off the USB drive.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teppomies wrote:

Powerbook is good choice too if you have some money :)


Actually, the Powerbook is one of the best values that I can find. Compared to the T42, it's comparable or better, when prices are matched.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this has been anwered countless times. you can put gentoo ona toshiba, ibm, compaq, ibook, powerbook...whatever..

good luck.. :D
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S_aIN_t wrote:
this has been anwered countless times. you can put gentoo ona toshiba, ibm, compaq, ibook, powerbook...whatever..

good luck.. :D


Umm... yeah, that's not really the answer I was looking for. I know that Gentoo can run on any kind of laptop, but I wanted to know personal recomendations, and what works and doesn't work.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want a laptop to run gentoo on why buy a mac? Just get a cheap x86 with centrino. Unless you're planing to play games or run really heavy applications, you don't want amd's cpu. They use too much battery.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy one that has an NVIDIA graphics card* and is recommended in http://www.linux-laptop.net/. There's not more to it. Many use Macs, but my choice was a cheap Compaq. Explore the mentioned site, it's great.

*) Rumour has it that ATI is releasing a new driver with better support. Stay tuned and hope the next one comes sooner after the next version of Xorg. :)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ktm wrote:
If you want a laptop to run gentoo on why buy a mac?
Because the Macs have much nicer hardware than any x86 box you can find.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using Gentoo on a iBook G3 700MHz. Very good combination hardware/software (especially where silence, mobility etc. are important factors).

The problem with the recent Macs laptops reside mostly around the wireless card (Airport Extreme g) that is unsupported and has been unsupported for several years, so don't expect support anytime soon... Mine have an Airport (non-extreme b), so it works #1.

So until Apple changes their provider this is a big disadvantage, especially for laptops.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spb wrote:
ktm wrote:
If you want a laptop to run gentoo on why buy a mac?
Because the Macs have much nicer hardware than any x86 box you can find.


Come on... When you buy mac you pay for lots of useless software and for a nice design (It is nice, I agree). But what makes the hardware better than x86???? x86 is cheaper, faster, more supported, more new and fancy technology. There is a reason why over 95% (don't actually know the number:oops:) of all desktops use x86!! As I see it people buy mac just to be different... and for the design
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ktm wrote:
spb wrote:
ktm wrote:
If you want a laptop to run gentoo on why buy a mac?
Because the Macs have much nicer hardware than any x86 box you can find.


Come on... When you buy mac you pay for lots of useless software and for a nice design (It is nice, I agree). But what makes the hardware better than x86???? x86 is cheaper, faster, more supported, more new and fancy technology.
The design is important in a laptop. The current range of iBooks is not much, if any, more expensive than a comparable x86 box. PowerPC is generally a nicer architecture than x86 (which happens to be one of the ugliest archs around). Apple are exceedingly good at engineering things, and so you know that the system is going to work together perfectly, and you won't get any stupid interoperability bugs. You don't pay any more for useless software on a Mac than you do on a Windows box, and the 'useless' software you get is actually quite nice. New and fancy techology are irrelevant; I want something that works. As for faster, you pay both in money and in noise/heat output for a fast x86 chip in a laptop. That enough reasons?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ktm wrote:
spb wrote:
ktm wrote:
If you want a laptop to run gentoo on why buy a mac?
Because the Macs have much nicer hardware than any x86 box you can find.


Come on... When you buy mac you pay for lots of useless software and for a nice design (It is nice, I agree). But what makes the hardware better than x86???? x86 is cheaper, faster, more supported, more new and fancy technology. There is a reason why over 95% (don't actually know the number:oops:) of all desktops use x86!! As I see it people buy mac just to be different... and for the design


Apple has one of the highest Quality Hardware of any manufactuer on the planet. Listen to spb, he knows what he's talking about. Not to mention the fact that apple actually puts a little thought into the aesthetics.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll second that. I recently bought a powerbook and my previous laptop was a Compaq that was very highly recommended at the time. It ran linux well, but the hardware quality is just not on the same level as my powerbook. Plus, OS X is cool and you can to play around with Gentoo for Mac OS X.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ktm wrote:
spb wrote:
ktm wrote:
If you want a laptop to run gentoo on why buy a mac?
Because the Macs have much nicer hardware than any x86 box you can find.


Come on... When you buy mac you pay for lots of useless software and for a nice design (It is nice, I agree). But what makes the hardware better than x86???? x86 is cheaper, faster, more supported, more new and fancy technology. There is a reason why over 95% (don't actually know the number:oops:) of all desktops use x86!! As I see it people buy mac just to be different... and for the design


Just to remind we are talking about laptops here. So the price factor is not an issue here. The reason why 95% of the people use x86 is because 95% of the people want to use Windows. Why do you think IBM didn't put PowerPCs in their laptops... It is because then they would have difficulty selling them. Windows people people would not buy them and people like you would not buy them either because they would not be x86 even though the PowerPC was technogically superior for laptops before the Centrino chipsets. I don't know though how PowerPC compares to the Centrino chipset thing nowadays but they were definitely superior some time ago.

Buying useless software? x86 laptops comes with Windows. If you are a Gentoo user what's the difference? Unless I guess you want both Windows and Gentoo? OS X came with 2 games, one that I found very fun. :)

x86 more supported? Not really, unless you are talking about Windows... If you want to use an OS different than the pre-installed one you are on your own whether it is x86 or ppc. You need to check the individual hardware components for support. My iBook has better Linux support than one of the "Linux Certified" x86 laptop that was reviewed some time ago...

Yes, there are more commercial apps for Linux/x86 than Linux/ppc (or any other archs non-x86) but how many commercial apps... You have Sun's Java on x86, on ppc you need to use IBM's Java, so this might be a minus for some people. You have acrobat on x86 (but version 5..., windows have version 7..., so you call that support?), on ppc xpdf is usually good enough... :) Then there is the Flash plugins etc. but you don't even have a AMD64 version.

I am not saying that Mac laptops are better than x86, in fact, for the recent ones, you might want to consider other laptops for some issues with hardware.

I am just saying that if you are a Gentoo user and Gentoo runs on both x86 and ppc hardware, why not consider all available choice and then make a decision. Why do like the Windows users "Macs sucks"... Why behave by the Mac OS X users "PCs sucks". Just pick the best hardware for your needs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One laptop that looks totally sweet is the Toshiba Protege R100. It only weighs 2 lbs! Although it may be more of a challenge to install gentoo on it since it had no cdrom, and apparently you can't boot off the USB drive.

I've got a toshiba m200 (tablet/laptop convertable) with gentoo. also a diskless machine, I installed using netboot and ltsp from my desktop. Note- it's far easier to use knoppix rather than go to the hassle of setting up ltsp on your desktop. And it's nice to install gentoo from kde with konquerer split between terminal and browsing the installation docs.

wrt hardware between x86 and macs: you're comparing apples to oranges- or rather apples to many different kinds of fruit. While the esthetics of powerbooks maybe the best, this is a matter of taste- I much prefer my m200 to any powerbook/ibook I've used. It's just better- and not just in specs- you have to use it to appreciate how nice and solid this thing is. The downside is that some hardware/options are not well suported- the build in SD card reader doesn't work in linux, and I'm still waiting for XRandR to support rotation as well as resize. Oh yes, and you need to reboot to switch to an external monitor.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slikdigit wrote:
wrt hardware between x86 and macs: you're comparing apples to oranges- or rather apples to many different kinds of fruit. While the esthetics of powerbooks maybe the best, this is a matter of taste- I much prefer my m200 to any powerbook/ibook I've used. It's just better- and not just in specs- you have to use it to appreciate how nice and solid this thing is. The downside is that some hardware/options are not well suported- the build in SD card reader doesn't work in linux, and I'm still waiting for XRandR to support rotation as well as resize. Oh yes, and you need to reboot to switch to an external monitor.
I used to think it was an esthetic thing that got people all excited about macs, specifically the powerbook. To some degree it is, but the killer feature for me is the battery life. It's absolutely amazing and probably the key feature for any laptop since the whole point of the thing is to be portable. Maybe it's just that I'm coming from a Compaq/HP laptop which has notoriously hideous ACPI support, but it's the biggest difference I have noticed. Another thing that I like about the powerbook is that it has virtually every kind of connection possible (ethernet, modem, firewire, USB, builtin wireless, bluetooth, etc...), which you can find on some x86 laptops, but usually not with the same battery life and size.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

masseya wrote:
I used to think it was an esthetic thing that got people all excited about macs, specifically the powerbook. To some degree it is, but the killer feature for me is the battery life. It's absolutely amazing and probably the key feature for any laptop since the whole point of the thing is to be portable. Maybe it's just that I'm coming from a Compaq/HP laptop which has notoriously hideous ACPI support, but it's the biggest difference I have noticed. Another thing that I like about the powerbook is that it has virtually every kind of connection possible (ethernet, modem, firewire, USB, builtin wireless, bluetooth, etc...), which you can find on some x86 laptops, but usually not with the same battery life and size.


What kind of battery life are you getting on the Powerbook?

Does anyone know if it's possible to put an Airport (non-Express) on a new version Powerbook so that I can get a working wireless in Gentoo?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pmazer wrote:
What kind of battery life are you getting on the Powerbook?
I'm getting roughly 2.5 hours worst case (playing 3d games over wireless internet with a bluetooth mouse) and depending on what level brightness I have my backlight set to I can get close to 4 hours coding with no wireless and no bluetooth. This is with a newish batter that's been through at least 5 full power cycles. You should check out this detailed report on the history of batteries in 15" powerbooks.

Quote:
Does anyone know if it's possible to put an Airport (non-Express) on a new version Powerbook so that I can get a working wireless in Gentoo?
Airport Extreme is standard on all models of the powerbook, so I would recommend calling them up and asking if they can do the older version. They were very helpful when I called them and willing to answer a lot of my paranoid/geek questions.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest checking out the Sharps with the Efficeon and Efficeon 2. They are ultraportables. You can get one sans optical drive with a 9 hour run time. Or, if you are on 1337 street, buy the MP20 WITH the optical drive, the Efficeon 2, and 4.6 hours run. It is so small you can put it into your pocket :twisted: Okay, Cargo Pant pocket.

They measure 8 1/2" by 11" by less than 2 and weigh like nothing. yeah, I wish, still saving up.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For reference on battery life... I get about 4 hours on my Dell Inspiron 5150 (in Windows) when not using internet or 3d graphics.

About 1-1.5 hours playing very intense 3d games at 100% processor.

I only use SpeedStep (tunes down cpu frequency to 1/2 or 1/4 when it's very idle or just doing simple tasks) when I'm not plugged in of course... Battery is 96 Watt Hours.
Haven't tried putting Gentoo on it because I've heard bad news about its hardware and the wireless card I use for it (netgear WG511T)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xithix wrote:

Haven't tried putting Gentoo on it because I've heard bad news about its hardware and the wireless card I use for it (netgear WG511T)


I have one and it works with ndiswrapper... I'm still to try madwifi, but it's reported to work.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Gentoo running on my recently bought iBook (I'm a college freshman). As for recommendations, all I can say is, I bought the iBook because I also like OS X, and the iBook isn't very expensive. If those two things aren't a factor (ie: you have a lot of money and don't care about OSX), then don't buy an iBook. Overall they're pretty good, but the support is less than an x86 laptop. The important thing to remember is that it's a LAPTOP. Way too many people in my dorm bought these bleeding edge, top of the line, 2.8GHz laptops, and they (a) weigh a metric ton and are as big as a large textbooks. In other words, they just looked at specs and bought the best sounding one. (b) because they're huge, they never leave their desk, so they might as well saved a couple thousand and just bought a desktop. (c) They get no battery life, none. (d) They overheat and shut down, a lot. So, in conclusion, I recommend a small, perhaps slightly older laptop that has a good battery life and can be put in a backpack. The iBook does fit that description, so if that's what you want, I'd say go for it.

Also, upgrade the iBook hard drive. After the default installations of linux and OSX, the 27G they give you isn't much at all. That's why I upgraded to the 60.

*EDIT* One more thing I'd like to add about the iBook. There are a lot of mac related quirks (like remapping the keyboard to have useful buttons) and the new Airport cards don't work yet. Just to keep in mind.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:43 am    Post subject: AMD 64 notebook Reply with quote

Hi,
I don't wanna rain on your mac and ibm Txx parade, but I have Asus L5800 with Mobile AMD 64 3000+ in it and it is by far much better choice. It is heavy artillery when it comes to cpu power. but then again buttery last 2.5 hours which is good since it is ment to be desktop replacemnt. It is also equiped with everything you can think of, check the specs yourself on the net. And yes, it is very affordable, when I looked at price I couldn't believe it. I looked at the price, then at specs, at price... couldn't be right I thought, but it IS.

And regards Gentoo, everything works, I have fully operational Gentoo notebook, wireless works great too, nvidia as usuall, and so on. (Only thing I had problems with was internal modem).

So go ahead, buy heavy branded stuff for sky high price if you want.
Or... you can think again:)

cheers!

ps. Asus L5800 is not only example of great notebook for a price, open your mind and search:)
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