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SJR3t2
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:33 pm    Post subject: Gentoo vs FreeBSD Reply with quote

I am having a hard time with this decision. I am trying to decide wether to use Gentoo or FreeBSD. Most of the time I lean to Gentoo (I already have a little server going with Gentoo), but right now I am wondering about switching.

I am hoping to get peoples honest opions about why they choose one OS over the other.

Thanks in advance.

Steven
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RedDawn
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeBSD for being a GENERICALLY made distro is fast as fuck, alot stable than linux also, networking is just awsome.

In freebsd you have what you called Virtual Channels witch allow you to give a program ( in a way it own souncard ) so that say 6 program can use the one soundcard at the same time.

Boots in less than 15 Start to KDM

i dunno is your choice really..
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seank
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the great OSS software is made with Linux primarily in mind then later they remember FreeBSD and port it over. When you run FreeBSD what you're running is a BSD kernel with a buncha GNU software on it. ;p
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jonaswidarsson
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just installed a brand new powerful server in a decent co-location spot.

I had some trouble getting the RAID 1 hardware controller to work with the gentoo 2004.3 liveCD, and I hadn't time to struggle with it so I actually went for FreeBSD.

See this thread https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=269635

My opinion is:
There is absolutely NO REASON to chose FreeBSD before Gentoo.
I had earlier experience from FreeBSD and I thought it would be alright, but I was so disappointed with it and I have spent two weeks configuring it.

Gentoo and FreeBSD is very compareable as far as advertising goes...

But trust me. Gentoo is supreme.

I am actually in here tonight browsing the store wondering how I should best donate to the project. Our business relies on gentoo for all our servers but the newest one and gentoo really helps us spend less time with server administration. I gotta pay for it!

Go ahead. Try FreeBSD 5.3 and make yourself an opinion. Mine is Gentoo is the best alternative for desktops and full blown servers. Maybe FreeBSD is better prepared for small tasks such as a simple firewall or something. But when you run mail, apache, mysql, php, samba cups, and all that - Gentoo is supreme. And most important very easy to use!

You know how smoothly you admin a gentoo box!

Just my $10
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seank
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I have used FreeBSD on my computer and it was pretty nice, but it wasn't has fast as Linux
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jonaswidarsson
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

besides... I benchmarked the systems yesterday to see how much faster the server performs:

Server:
2 x 2.8GHz XEON @ 800 MHz FSB
2 GB ECC SDRAM @400 MHz
2 x 80 GB SATA 150 connected as hardware RAID 1

Laptop:
1 x 2.6 GHz p4 @ 400 MHz FSB
1 GB SDRAM @ 333 MHz
1 x 80 GB ATA/100 @ 7200 rpm

I stressed the systems individually and the server performed overall 20 - 25 % better than the laptop even when I hit apache with 2000 requests with 100 in parallell. I tried to tune apache to work faster but it didn't affect the results.

Maybe mysql is the bottleneck... I should be getting like thrice the performance out of that server I think, compared to the laptop... :roll:

I don't blame FreeBSD fot this though. It is probably me that need to tune the server applications involved.
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RedDawn
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta remember that *BSD usually are more stable than linux..

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html


You wont see linux in there at all...
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seank
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedDawn wrote:
Gotta remember that *BSD usually are more stable than linux..

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html


You wont see linux in there at all...

Right, but this isn't about a server. It's about a desktop.
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SJR3t2
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have hurd many BSD people rant that BSD is more sucure than Linux. But I have also hurd one BSD person say he hears that alot, but not sure if it is true. What does the Gentoo community have to say about that. I have not hurd anything from the Gentoo side of the story. I think it depends on how things are set up.

Steven
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SJR3t2
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sean_micken wrote:

Right, but this isn't about a server. It's about a desktop.


It is about both for me. I really only want to learn one system.

Steven
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seank
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SJR3t2 wrote:
sean_micken wrote:

Right, but this isn't about a server. It's about a desktop.


It is about both for me. I really only want to learn one system.

Steven

Then use Linux. :)

It's not like only n00bs use Linux. Many large corps use Linux tons (look at IBM).
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christsong84
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sean_micken wrote:
SJR3t2 wrote:
sean_micken wrote:

Right, but this isn't about a server. It's about a desktop.


It is about both for me. I really only want to learn one system.

Steven

Then use Linux. :)

It's not like only n00bs use Linux. Many large corps use Linux tons (look at IBM).


I'd suggest linux for it, also...chances are it'll be a bit easier to learn and use.

But then again take my advice with a grain of salt...I am biased afterall being a linux user myself ;)
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SJR3t2
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreate everyones honest opinions. It helps me make an informed decision.

Steven
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spb
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SJR3t2 wrote:
I have hurd many BSD people rant that BSD is more sucure than Linux. But I have also hurd one BSD person say he hears that alot, but not sure if it is true. What does the Gentoo community have to say about that. I have not hurd anything from the Gentoo side of the story. I think it depends on how things are set up.
Any system is exactly as secure as its configuration. A well set-up windows system is better than a sloppy linux one, and the same for (almost) any two OSes you care to name.

As for gentoo vs freebsd, the way I see it is this: FreeBSD's kernel and base system is nicer than GNU/Linux, but Gentoo's package management is far nicer. As for which I'd choose, go for the best of both worlds: Gentoo/FreeBSD. :)
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RedDawn
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spb wrote:
SJR3t2 wrote:
I have hurd many BSD people rant that BSD is more sucure than Linux. But I have also hurd one BSD person say he hears that alot, but not sure if it is true. What does the Gentoo community have to say about that. I have not hurd anything from the Gentoo side of the story. I think it depends on how things are set up.
Any system is exactly as secure as its configuration. A well set-up windows system is better than a sloppy linux one, and the same for (almost) any two OSes you care to name.

As for gentoo vs freebsd, the way I see it is this: FreeBSD's kernel and base system is nicer than GNU/Linux, but Gentoo's package management is far nicer. As for which I'd choose, go for the best of both worlds: Gentoo/FreeBSD. :)



You've ported portage to FreeBSD didnt you!! I WANT THE CODE!!!!!!

:roll:
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SJR3t2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedDawn,

How does one get a hybrid of Gentoo and FreeBSD?

Steven
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RedDawn
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not really sure but im guessing all you would need to do is setup a FreeBSD system and install portage on it..

Although a couple of things my not work.

Not really sure, but it can definately be done. Its UNIX anyways..
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RedDawn
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope this helps..

http://dev.gentoo.org/~g2boojum/bsd.html#gentoo-freebsd
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spb
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedDawn wrote:
You've ported portage to FreeBSD didnt you!!
Yes.
Quote:
I WANT THE CODE!!!!!!
Yay.
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spb
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedDawn wrote:
Hope this helps..

http://dev.gentoo.org/~g2boojum/bsd.html#gentoo-freebsd
Horribly outdated. Try this or this (also slightly outdated). Better yet, drop by #gentoo-bsd and ask me what the latest install method is. :)
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RedDawn
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spb wrote:
RedDawn wrote:
Hope this helps..

http://dev.gentoo.org/~g2boojum/bsd.html#gentoo-freebsd
Horribly outdated. Try this or this (also slightly outdated). Better yet, drop by #gentoo-bsd and ask me what the latest install method is. :)



Woah... Thanks spb i really appreciate you taking the time to post this information for us.

Guess who's braking their FreeBSD system tonigh... :D

Again. Thanks man..
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j79zlr
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would never run Gentoo on a server, portage is too unstable. If you want the security fixes, you have to unmask ~x86, and these can be about as broken as anything. FreeBSD's ports are actually tested before they make it into the ports tree, and security fixes are in there right away.

I don't understand how anyone could argue that Gentoo's portage is a better package management system than FreeBSD's. Aside from the fact that portage is based off of FreeBSD's ports tree, FreeBSD has better dependency checking, and the package tools are far superior. Where is pkgdb -F? portsclean -CDD? Portupgrade will not completely fail if one thing fails, only the dependent ports, nothing is worse than doing a large emerge update, leaving and something fails early. Atleast with BSD it will continue.

Don't get me wrong, I like and use Gentoo as my desktop, but I also use FreeBSD. FreeBSD just doesn't have as much desktop oriented stuff, like a working acroread browser plugin, and their flash sucks, but it is a great OS, desktop or server. Also Linux has better hardware support in general. Linux is only a desktop IMHO.

I just get sick of seeing FreeBSD get blasted, and for no real reason. I think the main advantage of FreeBSD is that there is only one, if I got on a Redhat box I wouldn't know where to find anything. Linux needs to standardize its heirarchy, and decide if they are going to use UNIX like startup scripts, e.g. /etc/rc.d/ or sysV startup scripts, e.g. /etc/init.d. Why can't this be done?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

j79zlr wrote:
Linux needs to standardize its heirarchy, and decide if they are going to use UNIX like startup scripts, e.g. /etc/rc.d/ or sysV startup scripts, e.g. /etc/init.d. Why can't this be done?

Well it's easier said than done. A bunch of companies came up with the Linux Standards Base a while back. I'm not sure if it covers initscripts, but I'd imagine so.
The issue there is the companies in question are Red Hat, Mandrake and SuSE. So all RPM-based, and there's a lot about that in there - obviously this doesn't appeal much to Debian people, or Gentoo for that matter.

The init script thing would likely be similar; if they standardise on one there are going to be other distros who refuse to change because they think their way is better than the standard.
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SJR3t2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

j79zlr wrote:
I would never run Gentoo on a server, portage is too unstable. If you want the security fixes, you have to unmask ~x86, and these can be about as broken as anything. FreeBSD's ports are actually tested before they make it into the ports tree, and security fixes are in there right away.

I don't understand how anyone could argue that Gentoo's portage is a better package management system than FreeBSD's. Aside from the fact that portage is based off of FreeBSD's ports tree, FreeBSD has better dependency checking, and the package tools are far superior. Where is pkgdb -F? portsclean -CDD? Portupgrade will not completely fail if one thing fails, only the dependent ports, nothing is worse than doing a large emerge update, leaving and something fails early. Atleast with BSD it will continue.

Don't get me wrong, I like and use Gentoo as my desktop, but I also use FreeBSD. FreeBSD just doesn't have as much desktop oriented stuff, like a working acroread browser plugin, and their flash sucks, but it is a great OS, desktop or server. Also Linux has better hardware support in general. Linux is only a desktop IMHO.

I just get sick of seeing FreeBSD get blasted, and for no real reason. I think the main advantage of FreeBSD is that there is only one, if I got on a Redhat box I wouldn't know where to find anything. Linux needs to standardize its heirarchy, and decide if they are going to use UNIX like startup scripts, e.g. /etc/rc.d/ or sysV startup scripts, e.g. /etc/init.d. Why can't this be done?


Did you find it a bit hard to learn both systems (FreeBSD and Gentoo)? I want to do an app on the web, but I want it secure and stable. I also want to run the same system on my laptop and desktops. Do you think this is pushing it to much and I should go BSD for server then Gentoo Desktop?

Steven
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SJR3t2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we are talking about Gentoo and FreeBSD. I am wondering if anyone knew whose task switching is faster? And why you think one is better then the other?

Steven
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