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bLUEbYTE84
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 Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: [IDEA] Gentoo 'Stable' Snapshot |
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Greetings to the Gentoo Community,
I have an idea. Quite simple, yet in my opinion could be great. As we know, Gentoo's is a dynamic distro, i.e. it is update-centric. From the Handbook:
| Quote: | | From the beginning, Gentoo was designed around the concept of fast, incremental updates. |
Good concept. But, simply, some people don't want to continuously update their systems. In my opinion this applies to such usage cases:
- Server system
- The system maintainer, whether the system is a desktop system or a server system, doesn't want to continuously 'maintain' his/her system, because it is a fact that from time to time, some updates do cause problems and require user intervention to correct, and bring the system to a 'stable' state again.
The idea is:
When new releases are made such as 2006.1, 2007.0 and so on, mark the release-time snapshot of portage as a special snapshot (such as portage-2007.0.tar.bz2), ready to be downloaded at all times AND keep the source tarballs that are required by the packages in that snapshot always in FTP mirrors, so that user does not get 404 errors all the time (for the tarballs used in that snapshot, but obsoleted).
Only past 'two stable snapshot branches' would be supported, since there is no point to support very old snapshots, and FTP mirrors provide finite space.
For the users of such system, this will ensure:
- When you want to add a new package to your system, it may require a higher version of a library, which may also be used by other packages. It will not try to pull in recent versions of libraries, which would otherwise affect other packages (requiring revdep-rebuild) and the fun starts(the thing that we are trying to avoid).
- Unification. When someone says that he's using the 2006.1 'frozen' stable branch, we readily have an idea about what versions of packages he/she has in the system, therefore better support can be provided.
There are two similar possibilities:
- Gentoo Hardened
- Not syncing
But this system would be different from those alternatives in obvious ways, and in my opinion would be less problematic in most cases.
What do you think?
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Carlo
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Joined: 12 Aug 2002
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Gentoo 'Stable' Snapshot |
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As with nearly every idea, someone thinks he has to share, this one isn't new either. There's GLEP 19, but it is basically dead, since there never were enough people interested to maintain such a tree in the long run. And this thread is for sure a dupe, btw..
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bLUEbYTE84
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Gentoo 'Stable' Snapshot |
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| Carlo wrote: | | As with nearly every idea, someone thinks he has to share, this one isn't new either. There's GLEP 19, but it is basically dead, since there never were enough people interested to maintain such a tree in the long run. |
My idea doesn't involve maintaining a seperate portage tree, read properly. It involves only keeping some tarballs in FTPs and providing a stage tarball at release time.
| Quote: | | And this thread is for sure a dupe, btw. |
Well, provide a link if you are sure (to that other thread(s) that you are talking about)?
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Carlo
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Gentoo 'Stable' Snapshot |
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| bLUEbYTE84 wrote: | | My idea doesn't involve maintaining a seperate portage tree, read properly. It involves only keeping some tarballs in FTPs and providing a stage tarball at release time. |
Then you request is careless and quite stupid, as your system would become vulnerable in a short amout of time, exposing your private data and likely becoming a threat to everyone on the net, because of you running a system as part of a bot net, rather sooner than later. A non-maintained system is a no-go.
The Gentoo Security team doesn't release something between 20 to 30 GLSA's a month for no reason.
| bLUEbYTE84 wrote: | | Well, provide a link if you are sure (to that other thread(s) that you are talking about)? |
Uh, really, I'm not going to search for that.
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bLUEbYTE84
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Gentoo 'Stable' Snapshot |
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| Quote: | | Then you request is ... |
Uhm, this is not a request, just an idea I wanted to share. Personally, I'm fine maintaining my Gentoo boxes, where do you see a demand in my post, so that you call it a 'request'? If this is to be realized, maybe I am going to undertake it, how can you know?
Your prejudicatory remarks and claims are really irritating (also your tone). Learn to at least recognize the people's ideas, even if you cannot appreciate.
| Quote: | Then you request is careless and quite stupid, as your system would become vulnerable in a short amout of time, exposing your private data and likely becoming a threat to everyone on the net, because of you running a system as part of a bot net, rather sooner than later. A non-maintained system is a no-go.
The Gentoo Security team doesn't release something between 20 to 30 GLSA's a month for no reason. |
Not every machine is connected to the net 24/7 (vulnerability to remote attacks) and/or exposed to a multi-user environment (vulnerability to local attacks). Again, the narrowness of your thinking ability shows itself. I don't want to discuss further, and thanks to you, my motivation and enthusiasm has just faded away. Will think twice before sharing some idea like this. Good job.
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Carlo
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Gentoo 'Stable' Snapshot |
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| bLUEbYTE84 wrote: | | Uhm, this is not a request, just an idea |
Oh please, stop playing with words...
| bLUEbYTE84 wrote: | | Again, the narrowness of your thinking ability shows itself. |
Thanks. I'm expecting always the worst, that's all. And if your system is completely disconnected from any (local) net, you should have a local mirror anyways, so I'm wondering why you miss something you should already have.
The reason why old stuff won't remain on the mirrors forever is, that the available space is not unlimited. Fetch what you need in time and setup a local mirror. On the master mirror, the historical releases are kept. The sources to the binarie should be stored somewhere too for some time (to comply to the GPL), but likely only available on request. I doubt the whole history of source tarballs is stored.
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Mousee
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Joined: 29 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Gentoo 'Stable' Snapshot |
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| Carlo wrote: |
| bLUEbYTE84 wrote: | | Again, the narrowness of your thinking ability shows itself. |
Thanks. I'm expecting always the worst, that's all. And if your system is completely disconnected from any (local) net, you should have a local mirror anyways, so I'm wondering why you miss something you should already have. |
lmao, I was thinking the exact same thing when I read the OP's first post.
You could easily archive old tarballs and either burn them to dvd or store them on a local mirror.
Not all that difficult I suppose.
As you also mentioned, there's very few people interested in maintaining older builds for some indefinite period of time.
One year? Two? Five? I mean, you have to draw the line somewhere, and I think Gentoo is pretty close to doing well with that.
I know I would personally like to see a separate portage branch that maintains older, depreciated builds (removed from the main branch) just so you can un-emerge them (made that mistake once before). But then again most people actually keep up with packages and updates, as I typically do, so it's again rather pointless. But certainly providing support for older packages that are no longer maintained (possible security risks) would be one great big mistake.
So I "vote" no to this idea. |
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Roman_Gruber
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Joined: 03 Oct 2006
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Location: Austro Bavaria
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I would suggest to use Fedora, there you have releases, or something else. Gentoo is for people, who wants to maintain the system. Gentoo should be up to date. |
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bLUEbYTE84
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thread: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-537107.html
I started this thread to share a simple idea; yet people insist on not understanding what it means. It brought nothing constructive, the responses only annoy me, has no reason to stay. I request the deletion of the whole thread.
[edit by NeddySeagoon
bLUEbYTE84,
We don't do thread or post deletion if it can possibly be avoided. It creates cries of 'Censorship'
I've moved your request here and locked the thread]
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