kde look?

qnx · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:04 pm Post subject:

You're quite right Zakariya. CardDesk is your project, and if you want make it using stuff avalible in kdelibs or any other libraries, then do it! Just continue _your_ project as you've been doing for last weeks and we'll see what will become of it. Maybe a "standalone" WM like *box (that depends on kdelibs) or maybe, when it's a bit more mature and has more functions (I'm not saying "is more stable" because 0.1 never crashed for me) it will be integrated into KDE as a alternative to kicker or even a replacment.

Since I'm not really sure about what is what and which component holds what inside KDE I'm not sure about this, but: What about including the start button and the program list (where launched programs' icons are visible) into CardDesk?? Please, understand that I don't know anything about KDE/QT programming and I just want to learn something more and maybe come with some suggestions.

You (Zakariya) mentioned that some people are sending patches to you and you are working with the project "all your free time". What about a new snapshot? I am (and perhaps many others) very intressted and would like to take a look at the project's current stage =)

Also one more thing: are we going to continue the main CardDesk disscussion here or do you want us to send e-mails to you?? Is this the main CardDesk forum or are there any other that I don't know about??? Are you going to announce new snapshots here or somewhere else??

Finally: GREAT WORK!!!! THANK YOU!!!
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qnx · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:05 pm Post subject:

You're quite right Zakariya. CardDesk is your project, and if you want make it using stuff avalible in kdelibs or any other libraries, then do it! Just continue _your_ project as you've been doing for last weeks and we'll see what will become of it. Maybe a "standalone" WM like *box (that depends on kdelibs) or maybe, when it's a bit more mature and has more functions (I'm not saying "is more stable" because 0.1 never crashed for me) it will be integrated into KDE as a alternative to kicker or even a replacment.

Since I'm not really sure about what is what and which component holds what inside KDE I'm not sure about this, but: What about including the start button and the program list (where launched programs' icons are visible) into CardDesk?? Please, understand that I don't know anything about KDE/QT programming and I just want to learn something more and maybe come with some suggestions.

You (Zakariya) mentioned that some people are sending patches to you and you are working with the project "all your free time". What about a new snapshot? I am (and perhaps many others) very intressted and would like to take a look at the project's current stage =)

Also one more thing: are we going to continue the main CardDesk disscussion here or do you want us to send e-mails to you?? Is this the main CardDesk forum or are there any other that I don't know about??? Are you going to announce new snapshots here or somewhere else??

Finally: GREAT WORK!!!! THANK YOU!!!
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KiTaSuMbA · Guru Joined: 28 Jun 2002 Posts: 430 Location: Naples Italy

Ok people, let's not get jumpy here... I believe that kdelibs dependancy is inevitable and it's ok with me. Hey, I never use KDE as a DE but I'm a proud user of konqueror and kmail, so I got more than just kdelibs from KDE on my system and no, I don't wish there weren't those deps - because they _are_ inevitable. I think charlieg was more on the fact that your code does not require _running_ KDE while the slicker people seem to be oriented on simply replacing kicker, thus making the whole idea rather constrained to kde as an environment and not just as a building base.
About the site, sf.net etc.: it's definately your choice since it's your code. However I believe that a site could most certainly help by letting more people know about it, try it, submit bugs and - why not - even patches. Also note that being on sf.net doesn't force you to accept other people's contributions or extra developers, or even _have_ a cvs repository. If you wish only to give out ready source tarballs it's totally ok with them - and with us. Again a site doesn't actually mean it has to be on sf.net although they offer a whole lot of convenience (including MLs) and ask for no more than releasing in OSDN-approved license.

If anyone thinks he can make an efficient "card deck" using another set of libs, he should feel not only free but encouraged to do so. I don't know if you people realise it to the full extent: this is not just an eye-candy tool but a fresh desktop paradigm. Until now we had the "toolbar" and the "slit/dock" ones. Now we see the birth of the "drawable card" paradigm. That Tomorrow wishes to implement it with kdelibs is his choice - and a smart one since the APIs are very efficient on allowing him to do so without getting his hands dirty. Tomorrow's CardDesk is an implementation of a nascent desktop paradigm - the "drawable card" one.
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TomorrowPlusX · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:43 pm Post subject: Whoops, let me cool down

First off let me apologize for my tone in my last post. I'm very sorry, perhaps I was a little grumpy this morning. I think I'll enforce a personal no mailing or posting policy before 9am.

What I should say is KDe dependancy *will* stay, but it doesn't mean you will need KDE running, or even for that matter, all of KDE installed. KDE libs and perhaps KDE base will be necessary, but with luck that will be it.

With regards to sourceforge -- likely I will make an account. I probably won't go the CVS route, mainly because it's a pain in the ass for a relatively small project.

Now, with regards to updates you're all in luck because my GF is working on final exams and papers so I have more free time than I want ;)

As of last night, I have the beginnings of a plugin framework. No plugins per se yet, right now I'm more concerned that the plugin class, CardApplet, is flexible and powerful enough, before I start making the actual plugins.

The CardApplet class allows:
1: Specification of how to display the card tab. Icon? Or not. Custom text. Mini display area which can be drawn/updated live, right on the tab.
2: Drag hover to open, drag-n-drop events on the tab. Imagine dragging something (like a file) over the tab, having the card open, dropping the file, and having the card snap back shut. Niice.
3: properties saving and loading, via KConfig, so your card actually remembers its settings.
4: And more... like global keyboard accels on a per-card basis. Imagine if you had alt-f1 (like for kmenu) associated with the KMenu card replacement. You hit alt-f1 and the kmenu card slides open and focus is grabbed so you don't need to use a mouse. That would be awfully nice.

One thing which I realized last night my framework is missing, however, is that I was lookng at the slicker screenshots and I realize that some people might want little app launcher buttons on the tab itself. So, I'm going to spend a little time allowing for an optional widget area on the tab, below the text. One could turn that area on and then put a little button bar of sorts in place.

Now, with regards to implementing a kmenu replacement, it's nothing but a matter of writing a plugin.

Anyway, it's too early to release source on these changes yet, but soon enough you'll get it, and yes, I'll let you all know.

qnx · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:59 pm Post subject:

Great Zakariya! I think it's very important to plan the "core" of CardDesk (before you start writing any plugins). It should take the time it will, don't you stress =)
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KiTaSuMbA · Guru Joined: 28 Jun 2002 Posts: 430 Location: Naples Italy

drug n drop events? YES! that would be awesome

Imagine a mail applet... You drop a file, it starts/focuses the mail client and it's composer attaching that file on the new message. Only to mention one nice use out of a thousand others.

And, yes, keybindings can be really useful.
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qnx · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:22 pm Post subject:

Hi again! I'm not sure if I should say this, I don't want to say anything stupied or something that Zakariya wouldn't like :oops:

Anyway...Here we go =)
I'm testing _unmodified_ version of carddesk (0.1). I noticed something: when moving a a card or a set of cards I can move them anywhere on the screen IF there is no other card/cardset on it's way and blocks it. This is probably wanted behavior, but I just thought it would be nice with an option like "Put other cards" or something...
This is necessary if user wants to move a card from e.g horisontal to vertical edge of screen but there's already a card/cardset there so he first has to move the other card/cardset before moving the first one. Sorry for my bad explanation...Hope you understand anyway. I'm really tired now 8o ... See ya!
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quarus · n00b Joined: 12 May 2002 Posts: 39

Thanks for the tarball TomorrowPlusX ! It compiles and works fine. These Carddecks will just *rock* once they are finished

. I also browsed a bit through the source to see if i am smart enough to understand it :wink:

I'm going to play a bit with it. Let's see if i can make a blinking Card Tab ( for e.g Notification Alerts ).

Thanks again, and keep on rocking...

qnx · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:26 pm Post subject:

slougi · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:37 pm Post subject:

TomorrowPlusX

TomorrowPlusX · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Thank you

KiTaSuMbA · Guru Joined: 28 Jun 2002 Posts: 430 Location: Naples Italy

TomorrowPlusX · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 5:29 am Post subject: New screenshot! Tarball tomorrow

All
I have a new screenshot for you.
http://home.earthlink.net/~zakariya/files/carddesk/carddesk2.png

Here's what I've done. I've managed to lay down the beginnings of a plugin framework (not loading, just the plugin class itself) well enough to have plugins be able to:

-decide wether to have an icon, and what the icon is
-change the tab text
-make an animated (or not) status area to right of the text. In the screenshot, the rectangle to the right of the text is animated! With, literally, almost zero CPU ugage, even with four onscreen and running.
-Of course, have embedded widgets in the opened card area.

What I haven't done yet:
There are focus grabbing bugs, as these are unmanaged windows.
I haven't implemented the fancy pants DND ideas yet.
No saving of state or reloading yet. But the framework's in place.

I get tomorrow off from work, so I intend to spend the day hacking on this.

mmealman · Guru Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 348 Location: Florida

It looks really nice Tomorrow. I think cards are a really neat GUI idea, sorta strange how ideas like this come about.

I also appreciate the "less talk, more code" approach. I think too many projects blow all their energy on talking and not doing. Keep the updates coming and let us know where to have the pizza delivery guy send the food and caffeine.

qnx · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 7:49 am Post subject:

jonemi · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 7:51 am Post subject:

This is so exciting!!! All hail Tomorrow, Marshall Coder!

Maybe we should set up a donation account to buy Tomorrow a new computer . . .

lordion · n00b Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Posts: 4 Location: Los Angeles

Mr. Zakariya, let me add to the kudos here: you da man. New screenie is mind-blowing, 0.1 compiled and ran perfectly, which is more than I can say for half of the kde styles I download. Seriously, anytime you want a pizza, email me and it's sent.

What do you want for christmas? Is there an amazon.com wishlist?

errmm, you can email messer at ironmantis dot com for pizza and/or christmas list.

hook · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:35 am Post subject:

i've been rather silent in this topic ...but i was reading it from day one on

...i know it's unapreciated to send posts just like that ...but i would really like to thank and encourage tomorow ...you've put yourself up for a really nice project ...i would love to help you, but i'm rather weak as a programmer

...have fun fith the code ...and i hope you'll have as little bugs to correct as possible

...i know how they slowly get to you, if you can't find what's wrong

may the source be with you!

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charlieg · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:31 am Post subject: Dum de dum

TomorrowPlusX · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:35 pm Post subject: Slow!?

TomorrowPlusX · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:04 pm Post subject: More updates, and a tarball

All
I have an update, a tarball, a screenshot, and a request for help.
First, screenshot:
http://home.earthlink.net/~zakariya/files/carddesk/carddesk3.png

Notice that the icons & mini display region of the tabs are automagically rotated. Notice also that the tabs are renameable in place, and the little treeview reflects it. Cool!!!!

Second, tarball (with kdevelop project)
http://home.earthlink.net/~zakariya/files/carddesk/carddesk-0.1.tar.gz

OK, here's the deal. I've begun to implement DND functionality. Now, you can drag something over a tab, and if the plugin notifies that it can handle that kind of drag object, one of two things will happen:
- if you hover, the card will open, and you can drop the file in the card area. Then, the card will automagically shut. Cool!
- if you drop on the tab, the drop will be forwarded to the plugin to handle it.

Now, here's the problem, and my request for help. There seem to be problems WRT focus. Since these cards are individual windows, and since they aren't bordered, that means they are unmanaged and as such have to take active measures to get certain kinds of events. This requires calls to QWidget::raise() & QWidget::setActiveWindow() and all.

The trouble is, without making these calls I seem to lose drag-drop events inside the card. Further, there seem to be issues with losing focus inside the card. Right now I call raise() and setActiveWindow when the card is opened, and when DND events occur. But this doesn't cover all possible circumstances.

What I'd like is for one, or some, or all of you to poke through the code and through kwin documentation as well as Qt documentation to see if you can figure out a way for me to get around these problems.

I'll also post requests to kde-devel to see if any of the wizards there can help. But, since so many of you seem eager to help, I'm ready to call you all out on it ;)

Lovechild · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:28 pm Post subject:

charlieg · Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 12:20 am Post subject: Kudos

Remarkable work, TommorrowPlusX.

I've forwarded your request for help to the kdelook forum.

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TomorrowPlusX · Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:14 pm Post subject: More updates, and a new tarball

All
After reading documentation and performing some tests, I can say with some certainty that I've solved the focus problem and related DND issues.

So, without further hoo ha, the tarball's updated:
http://home.earthlink.net/~zakariya/files/carddesk/carddesk-0.1.tar.gz

Also, I've added resize grips (optional) to the cards, such that when they're open, you can pull the card longer or shorter. Cool, eh?

So, I ask you all, or anybody still listening, hammer on it and send me bug reports. I'll post this to the slicker folks too, btw. I joined the slicker-devel list, though so far all I've managed to do is piss them off ;)