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Do you think the piracy of Microsoft products ulltimately lowers the number of Linux users?
Yes
72%
 72%  [ 74 ]
No
27%
 27%  [ 28 ]
Total Votes : 102

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millenium_psyrax
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:18 pm    Post subject: Does Windows piracy ultimately hurt Linux? Reply with quote

I'm just wondering how many Linux users believe that because people can pirate Windows, they do not even try using Linux. If Microsoft cracks down on piracy, will more users be forced to migrate to Linux?
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Ruzbeh
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes and no, this only applies to home users. Some can't be bothered and stay with Windows 98 or something. Others _might_ switch to linux. It will hardly stimulate the growth of linux, but still it would be better.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be very interested in hearing the rationale from those people who believe that MS piracy does not affect the growth or dominance of Linux in the desktop marketplace.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People use windows because its the easiest most strait forward Computer OS for them, and its just does what they need.

Windows is perfect for 90% of computer users, and I would rather they stayed on Windows than people dumbed down linux to move them over, as far as i can see eveyone is happy where they are.

I perfectly understand why people want a easy life with windows, most people are not intrested in computers the way i am and good luck to them they are interested in other things and just want there computer to play mp3 do spreadsheets or make Photo CD's whatever.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.

I think that is especially true for Office, but also for expensive non-MS-software like Photoshop.
Illegal copies of Windows itself probably aren't such a big factor: When buying a new PC, finding one without Windows preinstalled is anything but trivial (unless you buy and assemble the components yourself).
While I'm not sure how much impact this factor has, it certainly plays a role.
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Gandalf the White
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarMor wrote:
Yes.

I think that is especially true for Office, but also for expensive non-MS-software like Photoshop.
Illegal copies of Windows itself probably aren't such a big factor: When buying a new PC, finding one without Windows preinstalled is anything but trivial (unless you buy and assemble the components yourself).
While I'm not sure how much impact this factor has, it certainly plays a role.


As a student living in montreal with limited funds, building my computer myself saved me a ton of money, and most people I know(even non l33ts) chose this route. The availability of pirated copies of windows was most definitely a factor for them, and is probably the only reason they do not run linux (despite my nagging ;))
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noergeli
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is a software that you get for free less worth than one that costs a lot of money? I think most people think so. Not only windows vs linux. Even under windows there are more people using pirate copies of MS Office than OpenOffice(although MS can't even export PDF).
If MS would be able to do anything against piracy of recent products most people would rather use win3.11 and word 5.0 than switching to free software.
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G.N.A.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But note that it is getting harder and harder to update pirated versions of MS software. I think that is going to cause a lot of people who can, to migrate over to Linux.

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scarr
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nyteryda wrote:
People use windows because its the easiest most strait forward Computer OS for them, and its just does what they need.

Windows is perfect for 90% of computer users, and I would rather they stayed on Windows than people dumbed down linux to move them over, as far as i can see eveyone is happy where they are.

I perfectly understand why people want a easy life with windows, most people are not intrested in computers the way i am and good luck to them they are interested in other things and just want there computer to play mp3 do spreadsheets or make Photo CD's whatever.


Not necesserily. People tend to use Windows because they feel that is all that will allow them to communicate with their friends and family, or for their work.

For most people, Microsoft Windows is the same as saying the word computer. They don't know of anything else.

If Microsoft starts forcing people to pay the ~$100+ that they want for every OS, and start killing Win98 and Win95 and WinME installs, then yes, people will start using Linux more eventually.

Most people just can't afford that much for software and a computer. Alot of people can't even afford the computer itself.

The other interesting theory I have heard from the horses mouth so to speak, "Expensive Hardware is what is killing Microsoft OS sales." Doo huh?????

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read an article recently that claimed that Linux is actually reducing the amount of pirated software. In Asia especially, it is simplier to install Linux than to hassle with the pirated MS stuff that they used to install. Makes some sense.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.. in asia people can get XP for about a dollar. Why use free linux when you can use free nearly free windows?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least here in Russia that SURE does. Why should i buy windows legaly when i can get it for about $2. =)) or free from my LAN.
So if here wouldn't be a possibility to pirate windows noone (or almost noone would buy it.) that's the situation.
So if nobody would buy it the number of LInux users would be greater.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why use free linux when you can use free nearly free windows?

Because Linux is legal. No more complicated bribes to deal with.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its foolish to pirate windows. Just beacuse a company is "evil" does not mean that you should steal from them makes you just as bad.

On that note I think alot more would try linux vs windows if they could not get there hands on free copies of Windows and it would be better. But then again who knows
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted no. I do not think that "the piracy of Microsoft products ulltimately lowers the number of Linux users".

I mean yes, individual users can get a pirated version of XP for very little. But when you think about it, who are the customers that Microsoft goes out of it's way not to lose? Businesses (especially large ones) and governments, which together compose probably a good 60% or more of the IT market.

Businesses (admittedly very slowly) are starting to realize they can't afford the lock-in, and government organizations from Munich to the Brazilan Congress to the French Ministry of Transportation (I think), are realizing that they just can't afford the price, not for the benefits that Open Source offers: higher security (even if in the temporary form of obscurity), stability, and the ability to hire a team of programmers for the same price, and modify it at will - and this latter has the additional benefit of adding to the local job market.

So, no, not even if half the people in China used pirated versions of Windows, I don't think that it'll "take away" from Linux. On the other hand, if Microsoft really starts to enforce licensing, and make life hard for pirates, then I think we can expect more individuals to move to Linux.
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pandaxiongmao
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope when Microsoft starts to "hunt" those illegal activities a la RIAA; many people would consider switching to Linux.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it were impossible to pirate windows, alot more people in lower wage countries would switch, pretty simple.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dwblas wrote:
Quote:
Why use free linux when you can use free nearly free windows?

Because Linux is legal. No more complicated bribes to deal with.

Downloading music is illegal, but everyone does it. Why doesn't everyone just purchase the CD?
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brettlpb
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly stops me from using Linux... I use it for 2 weeks at a time until I get annoyed without Photoshop, Premiere, Office, and other such nice commercial software I didn't exactly buy... (same with XP itself) The stuff is just too good to live without, that and fully working drivers (perfect Audigy 2, perfect ATI Radeon 9700 pro, etc)... I just can't stand using Linux right now.

This is of course based heavily on the fact thats I'm an adept windows user, I don't use antivirus or anti-spyware software and I've never had a problem, my computer doesn't freeze and I don't reboot every 3 seconds like some people claim they need to... hell, Linux was worse in that respect, too.
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Albert_Alligator
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruzbeh wrote:
this only applies to home users. Some can't be bothered and stay with Windows 98 or something. Others _might_ switch to linux. It will hardly stimulate the growth of linux, but still it would be better.


First...Only applies to home users??? Which rock do you live under???

Asia, the biggest market in the world...and growing. I'd say that in countries like China, Taiwan, Viet Nam, South Korea and the rest of South East Asia, 50 to 80% of the companies have some or all of their computers with illegal copies of Windows. IP isn't too important to these people over here no matter what the governments say...and the governments’ crackdowns are really only for show. In China and Taiwan....they call days ahead of an inspection, and the illegal copies and computers are hidden.

So, if they really are able to start enforcing IP here in Asia, Linux will likely have a 20 to 40% share of the world wide market....until the governments really crack down...ain't gonna happen, and Linux will suffer.

Al
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shash
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely!

To begin with, upto a couple of years ago, with no OO.o, no good drivers, no good games, etc., very few people would even think of using Linux, or for that matter any other OS. But Windows was not cheap, so they "borrowed" or "bought" it. To be fair, many times, people just bought from their supplier who was also a pirate. But this was going on.

Now, people are used to windows. Even though pirated stuff is hurting them (lack of patches, frequent virus attacks, etc) they still stick to it, because they don't want to learn something new.

I keep getting into debates with people who are of the opinion that if they can get Windows for free, why should they bother doing anything else?

I often advice people now to do it right, if they're so obstinate about using windows. A legal one might be more expensive, but at least you don't have to worry as much about viruses. Of course, I'd prefer that they used Linux, myself... ;)
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's often been said that Microsoft could have put in strong anti piracy measures way before they started doing product activation, cynics might say that the reason they didn't is so that people would adopt MS Windows as their home OS and hence MS then dominate the market. They actively went after businesses using illegal copies of MS Windows because that's where they make their money. But how many home users have ever been prosecuted for pirating windows...

I don't know that it hurts Linux, but the wide spread availability of pirate MS Windows certainly hurt OS/2 and DR/DOS.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dwblas wrote:
Because Linux is legal. No more complicated bribes to deal with.


No bribes. I can't tell for Asia, but in Russia you don't have to bribe anyone: simply because the guys that come to check you - yes, the government department! - most likely run pirated Win themselves. At least I know that tax department in my city uses pirated Win98 and WinNT...
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got this form my roommate on Windows vs Linux:

Quote:

Anything I pay for is automatically better that anything I can get for free. I don't like opensource because it's free


I've used every version of Windows on my home pc from dos 6 and 3.1, all the way to 2003 Server, with the exception of NT.
I've found opensource or freeware applications to be some of the best I can find. Even in a Windows enviroment.
For games, right now, Linux can't compete with Windows. Everything else I want to do, I've found an alternative to it.

I think the pre-installed issue has more of an effect than it's given credit for. Most people, in my experience, just want to call Dell or whoever their last heard an add for, get a couple boxes in the mail, plug it in and go.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canadian_psyko wrote:
I got this form my roommate on Windows vs Linux:

Quote:

Anything I pay for is automatically better that anything I can get for free. I don't like opensource because it's free


Just show him Firefox and ask if he thinks that IE is better.
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