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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slyde wrote:
All white male heterosexuals are racist, sexist, and bigots and personally responsible for every other persons hardships.


If that's the case, then I think I'll go oppress some black women and firebomb some churches. I never knew that I was an oppressor before, and I've got a lot of catching up to do. :twisted:
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: I love America by Tucker Max Reply with quote

kalisphoenix wrote:

...
(Sorry so long, but this shit pisses me off.)

Agreed.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: I love America by Tucker Max Reply with quote

kalisphoenix wrote:


Quote:
Quote:
Can you remember the last time you were hungry? Not just hungry because you missed lunch, but so hungry you risked death? Has anyone you know ever died from typhus, small pox, cholera, bubonic plague, tapeworms or influenza? Has anyone in your family been sold into slavery, killed in tribal conflicts, or maimed by wild animals?


Tapeworms can be fatal?

Slavery = work without pay and with bad conditions, in which case I knew several individuals in the military who were temporarily enslaved.
Tribal Conflicts = War is just a big tribal conflict.
Maimed by Wild Animals = WTF? I see it on FOX all the time.


no tapeworms are not fatal. Slavery is being forced to work without pay. Nobody in the military is forced to work, or not paid. If you joined up you signed a contract, but you can be dishonorably discharged. If you were drafted you obviously registered for selective service, and if you did not dodge the draft you agreed to do the work. And you were compensated for your time. Military service, even required military service is NOT slavery.

I agree the wars we always seem to have are stupid and not necessary a lot of the time.

Seeing something on FOX does not equal somebody in your family.

Quote:
Considering that we have homeless people, AIDS, we're number one in the world for child poverty (FOUR TIMES the rate of that in Western Europe) and teen pregnancy, that the distribution of wealth is tragically unequal, and that more people die of gunfire here than in anywhere else in the world... and, for that matter, that we consume an unconscienably disproportionate amount of the world's resources...
Oh, but wait. The other 5.75 billion people of the world (as well as the 150 million in this country with a net value of $0) aren't "ordinary people," and shouldn't be allowed to vote, let alone be counted in this moronic statement.


People generally CHOOSE to be homeless. Most of the people that have AIDS have it because they made a bad choice, unprotected sex in a non-monogamous relationship. They deserve it. We have child poverty, but almost every child has a chance. They have a chance at a free education, they have welfare to feed them, etc. I've lived in the sub poverty level for most of my life and never felt it. What is considered "poverty" is too high. There is poor and there is dirt poor, and in both children grow up to be fine adults. Stronger than most actually.

Teen pregnancy is not a problem. I know a lot of people that didn't get pregnant in high school, actually almost everybody I know didn't. Those that did either aborted the kid, or had the kid and they were fine. I think that you forget that Teen pregnancy is a CHOICE. It is not for lack of education. I do not think I've ever met anybody over the age of 14 that doesn't know that unprotected sex causes kids. If they do not know that, it is because they do not WANT to, and they are a burden on society and need to cease to exist.

Quote:

I still see people dying of starvation -- where the fuck is he living? Disease, war, religious shit...


Where the FUCK are you living? I see nobody dying of starvation around here. I do not think I've ever even heard of it happening. Except maybe a child, which is sad, but it is typically because of deadbeat drugged up loser parents, and no fault of the state. If you can show me where people in the US are starving to DEATH, I'll show you a soup kitchen.

Quote:
I maintain that there are better countries. I personally despise complacency.


Of course there are. He mentions that the western world is a better world. A lot of the western european nations are great as well.



Quote:
Even Nicaragua's average person gets a raise of twice as much per year as the average American.


And they will need a lot of those raises to hit the average wage of americans.

[/quote]Technically true, but mostly because of technology. If this country were truly great, everyone would have the opportunity to succeed.[/quote]

Who doesn't? The black? The poor? The jewish? Anybody that wants to succeed here can, at least the overwhelming majority can. Maybe if you are seriously disabled and have no money you will not have a chance, or if you are mentally disabled, but that is the only case that I can think of. Most of the people that do not become something better do not want to. They think they want to, and then they take another hit off of the crack pipe. They are losers, and will never become anything. Nobody is faced with insurmountable odds in america. nobody.

Quote:
? The average worker produces four times as much as he is paid before taxes.


75% tax? Where the fuck do you live? Not in america. Lets see, last year I made very little money, and paid 10% of what I made to the government for income tax. Another 5 or 6% of what I spent in sales tax. And excise tax on gas, booze, and tobacco. But those are such a small portion of my income I do not need to count those, say a total of 20% of my income went to taxes. I'm not seeing a 75% anywhere.

Unless you think that the company is not paying me enough for what I produced for them, in which case you are stupid. The company needs to make money too, you only have a job because you can make 4 or 5 or 20 times what get paid. If you think you can singularily produce 4 times what you currently get paid, go to work for yourself and see how that works for you.

Quote:
Usually. Ask the numerous software companies that engaged in legal disputes with Microsoft about stolen technology. And Alexander Graham Bell didn't invent the phone any more than Henry Ford invented the automobile.


Wow. Ignorance is bliss. I think that may be the first time I've heard that Henry Ford, of all people, invented the automobile. Wow. Have you ever attended school? He is creditted with mass production, not the car. While he may not have been the thinker behind it, the was the mover behind it. He turned the idea into a reality and produced automobiles at a price point that the middle class could afford. It wasn't only the elite that owned automobiles after that. And his idea was copied millions of times.

Most companies that battle others for stolen technology are fighting over things like the double click. Something that a monkey could have came up with. Others, with legitimate claims, are paid for their ideas. Microsoft is not as evil as you think.

Quote:
This is what we pay those taxes for.

You were just BITCHING about taxes, now you like them? Wow.

Quote:
Quote:
Of course there are those who say that this is a racist, sexist, oppressive country, that it is only truly free for the privileged, be them white, male, rich or whomever. They claim that America is not truly equal because women, minorities and the poor are somehow discriminated against and they claim that America is oppressive because it doesn’t adhere to their ridiculous notions of social justice. To those people, I can only quote my late friend Rand Funston, “If you want to live in heaven, I’ll be happy to kill you.”


It sounds like making that statement might have been a mistake for Mr. Funston. Anyway, make that statement to a Women's Studies, Ethnic Studies, or, basically, anyone who's been to college.


Oh, college makes you elite now? Bullshit. Fucking liberal arts colleges turn people into whiners. Make that statement to me, I've been to college. I agree with it. Hell, I bet that almost everybody that I go to school with would agree with it. People that disagree with it are usually bitter. Women's studies courses and ethnic studies courses are a good place to have people get together and whine about not getting a fair deal.

To paraphrase a teacher I had in high school. Life is not fair, get used to it. It was much more complicated than that, but the gist is the same. Life is not fair, it cannot be fair by design, if it was fair we would not have great thinkers like Einstien, we wouldn't have Thomas Jeffersons, we wouldn't have Olymipic athletes, we wouldn't have a lot of things that makes life great. Fairness is not a required thing in life, and should not be expected.

Quote:
The ideal government, ideal economy, and ideal culture? Sounds like something the Nazis said and you know (or should know) how wrong they were.


I think he was saying what is better right now? And what is? For me america works. I'm sure that I could be happy in any western culture though.

Quote:
Moral feats? Like tobacco still being legal? Like alcohol being basically deregulated? Like being imprisoned twenty years for a joint? Like the asset-forfeiture law? Like same-sex marriages not being legal? Fucking shit, man, open your eyes.


I'm not seeing how tobacco being legal is a moral failure. Alcohol is regulated just fine. Hell its taxed heavily, made illegal to those under age, what more do you want? I've never heard of somebody being imprisoned for possession of drugs. Maybe a few days, a couple of weeks, not 20 years. I agree about same sex marriages, that is a moral failure, I'm not sure what the asset-forfeiture law is.


Quote:
Study your history from something other than middle school textbooks.

Good idea. A lot of what Tucker says sounds like he is uneducated, and he may be, I have no idea.


Quote:
Also, don't forget that when we speak about the US, we're also speaking about the culture. How about the media's representation about women? How about the popular conceptions of womens' roles? How about the sky-high probability of getting raped?


How does the media represent women?
Popular conceptions of womens roles is slowly changing. It takes time. America cannot be perfect, perfection is something to strive for and never achieve. I believe that great strides are being made but a lot needs to change. I go to a Science/Engineering university, and women are woefully unrepresented. It is not because they cannot do it, they have been conditioned to not want to, or think that they cannot. This is something that needs to change in the home and in elementary schools through high schools before it will change in the world. I think that a lot of women do not consider jobs in a lot of fields because they are scared of how much of a minority they would be. It needs to change and it will, given time.

Quote:
Half the nation has a net worth of zero, I remind you. If it weren't for the invention of credit, we'd all be living in cardboard boxes saving up for that big home.


And what do you prefer? Having a net worth of zero does not mean you are poor. It means that all of your assets are currently being used. You cannot die with money and take it with you, if I had a net worth of billions I'd be rather sad that I could not utilize it.

Quote:
...

I feel a bit of empathy for the mentally handicapped. Somebody dislikes them up there. I do not know what to do with them though, I'm without any answer. Support them the best we can I guess, but only if they want help.


Quote:
That's nice, but there's a bit of a problem when actual Americans appear into the equation to interpret the law. *points out that the inalienable rights thing has been around since 1776, but slavery existed another 90 years, and wage slavery is still very much a reality*


At the time slaves were not really considered people. A wrong thinking of course. And it took nearly 200 years to fix. Now though everybody is the same in front of the courts. Except the rich, because they can buy better lawyers and pay people off. But if you truly are innocent, in most cases a jury of twelve will be able to figure it out.

Quote:
I'll ignore America's genocide against the Indians, enslavement of the Blacks, confinement of Japanese during World War II, and near-refusal to allow Jews to enter the country during the Third Reich... and concede your point. No, wait. We're just as bloody as some, and bloodier than most. When was the last time you heard of genocide in Britain?


Genocide? Never. Enslavement happened in every portion of the world. Every so called civilized portion. Colonists killed a lot of natives, but they really deserved it. We were no more brutal to them than they were to each other. We just kept coming and coming and coming. Genocide was not the goal, and it was never done. There are plenty of natives around still. Technology and disease killed them. It was basically a tribal war that ended with the white man winning. A really classic case of survival of the fittest.

Quote:
America was among the very last Western nations to do so. It should be pointed out that most Africans captured other Africans and sold them to slave traders because they were addicted to the tobacco that the traders sold them.


They did it for wealth, not for tobacco addiction.


I am amazed. I try very very hard to not post things like this. I really do. Sometimes though, I get kind of pissed off by people that only see the bad. I like to think that I am pretty reasonable. I am not a soft hearted fanatic liberal though, and I cannot understand it. If you truly have so much hatred for how America works, why are you still here? Probably because you like the freedoms that we enjoy, the lifestyle that our government allows us to live.

Either that or you are too damned poor and life dealt you a bad hand. Well, it is the only hand you have, play it, bluff it, or fold.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrashPat wrote:
People generally CHOOSE to be homeless. Most of the people that have AIDS have it because they made a bad choice, unprotected sex in a non-monogamous relationship. They deserve it.

People choose to be homeless? AIDS victims deserve it? It's simply astounding that someone would say this 8O
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

papal_authority wrote:
People choose to be homeless? AIDS victims deserve it? It's simply astounding that someone would say this 8O


I guess you've never heard of "bug chasers", have you. Try googling the term.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormy Eyes wrote:
papal_authority wrote:
People choose to be homeless? AIDS victims deserve it? It's simply astounding that someone would say this 8O


I guess you've never heard of "bug chasers", have you. Try googling the term.


Jesus, I've never heard of that before 8O

Still the original statement is ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormy Eyes wrote:
papal_authority wrote:
People choose to be homeless? AIDS victims deserve it? It's simply astounding that someone would say this 8O


I guess you've never heard of "bug chasers", have you. Try googling the term.


Wow. News to me. I've known some crazy people. I knew a guy that was paralyzed after a game of russian roullette. I thought that was crazy. Take a revolver, load one bullet, spin the magazine, pull the trigger. 1 in 6 chance of it going off.

But bug chasing? holy cow. I guess that I am one of the majority that has a very strong sense of self preservation, I do not want to die, I do not want to be diseased, and I do not want to sick. That said I choose my dangers carefully.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormy Eyes wrote:
I guess you've never heard of "bug chasers", have you.

Yargh. I just looked it up. Very disturbing 8O
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

papal_authority wrote:
CrashPat wrote:
People generally CHOOSE to be homeless. Most of the people that have AIDS have it because they made a bad choice, unprotected sex in a non-monogamous relationship. They deserve it.

People choose to be homeless? AIDS victims deserve it? It's simply astounding that someone would say this 8O


I stand by it.

In my limited experience, most people that are homeless are homeless because they made a series of bad desicions. They did these while hopefully weighing the pros and cons of each, and after a while had no money left and were homeless, living on the streets. It was a choice.

AIDS victims deserve it. There is always the case that he or she was raped. That is bad luck. If on the other hand he or she chose to have sex with another being who turned out to be hiv positive and they caught the virus, they deserve it. They are stupid. Generally this only happens in people that sleep around. If you do not sleep around, and your partner does not sleep around, how did you get it? There are cases where bad luck plays a roll, broken condom, things like that. But if you knowingly risk your health like that and something bad happens, I'm sorry but I do not feel any sorrow for you. None.

The other case of bad luck is when one party is monogamous and the other party is not, and the first party does not know about the second parties actions. This actually does cause me sorrow, because it could happen to anybody. However, if bad luck was the only thing causing aids to spread, it wouldn't be an epidemic. It is a series of bad choices by a lot of people. That and bug chasers that I cannot relate to.

So I restate, I feel no sympathy for the majority of AIDS victims. They deserve it.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrashPat wrote:
But if you knowingly risk your health like that and something bad happens, I'm sorry but I do not feel any sorrow for you. None.

Hmmph. You know, you take a risk when you get in the car and drive to work/school each day. If you fail to see a stoplight and get flattened by a truck, do you deserve it? Afterall, you knew it was a possibility, just as AIDS victims knew STD's were a possibility. Why is it I suspect you didn't mean risk-takers deserve what they get? I think you meant fornicators, because St. Paul said sex is bad, right? Why didn't you just come out and say "fornication is evil and I hope bad things happen to all the evil people who do it?"
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crashpat wrote:
most people that are homeless are homeless because they made a series of bad desicions

and my personal favourite...

CrashPat wrote:
AIDS victims deserve it.

IIRC, the primary reason for homelessness in Canada is due to abuse (both sexual and physical at home). This is the main factor in driving an individual to the streets. Mental illness I believe is the second biggest. Then of course it's a vicious cycle, can't get a job without an address, depression, drug addiction. As for your view of AIDS, I guess you feel the same way people with other STDs as well? IV drug use is fast becoming the biggest transmitter of AIDS as shown here. Not that I expect you to believe that drug addicts don't deserve it...

EDIT: 600th post ... I'm now 1337 8)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaronVonOwn wrote:
CrashPat wrote:
But if you knowingly risk your health like that and something bad happens, I'm sorry but I do not feel any sorrow for you. None.

Hmmph. You know, you take a risk when you get in the car and drive to work/school each day. If you fail to see a stoplight and get flattened by a truck, do you deserve it? Afterall, you knew it was a possibility, just as AIDS victims knew STD's were a possibility. Why is it I suspect you didn't mean risk-takers deserve what they get? I think you meant fornicators, because St. Paul said sex is bad, right? Why didn't you just come out and say "fornication is evil and I hope bad things happen to all the evil people who do it?"


Not at all. I'm one of the least religious people you will ever talk to. If I get hit by a bus when I cross the street because I didn't look both ways, I deserve it. Kind of like natural selection at its best. Taking a risk and suffering the consequences is a part of life. You will notice that I didn't say that the actions of these people is bad, simply that they do actually deserve the consequences.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

papal_authority wrote:
Crashpat wrote:
most people that are homeless are homeless because they made a series of bad desicions

and my personal favourite...

CrashPat wrote:
AIDS victims deserve it.

IIRC, the primary reason for homelessness in Canada is due to abuse (both sexual and physical at home). This is the main factor in driving an individual to the streets. Mental illness I believe is the second biggest. Then of course it's a vicious cycle, can't get a job without an address, depression, drug addiction. As for your view of AIDS, I guess you feel the same way people with other STDs as well? IV drug use is fast becoming the biggest transmitter of AIDS as shown here. Not that I expect you to believe that drug addicts don't deserve it...

EDIT: 600th post ... I'm now 1337 8)


How many drug addicts chose to do drugs in the first place? Almost all of them. I do understand how it could be considered sad, but I find it hard to feel for them. Addiction is a horrible thing to deal with, but there are people that are strong enough to overcome the addiction and not live on the streets and get AIDS and die.

Abuse is one of those bad luck things. But it is also a natural selection thing. If you cannot overcome your problems and it drives you to live on the streets, that is a bit sad, and you actually did not get a fair deal, but nobody really does.

People suffering from mental illness I do feel sorry for. They do not have a chance, and it is pretty sad.


Man I love the internet, from the comfort of my own home I can insult and get a rise out of so many people. Its great.

EDIT: Congrats on becoming 1337. :)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrashPat wrote:
If I get hit by a bus when I cross the street because I didn't look both ways, I deserve it.

Your example is (deceitfully?) phrased to dodge my point. People can have bad things happen to them through no fault of their own. For example, the people working in the WTC on 9/11. It was possible that terrorists could try and kill them, they took that risk, did they deserve to burn to death?

Quote:
Kind of like natural selection at its best.

Great, so you've gone from fundamentalism to social Darwinism. That's so much better.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrashPat wrote:
papal_authority wrote:
CrashPat wrote:
People generally CHOOSE to be homeless. Most of the people that have AIDS have it because they made a bad choice, unprotected sex in a non-monogamous relationship. They deserve it.

People choose to be homeless? AIDS victims deserve it? It's simply astounding that someone would say this 8O


I stand by it.

In my limited experience, most people that are homeless are homeless because they made a series of bad desicions. They did these while hopefully weighing the pros and cons of each, and after a while had no money left and were homeless, living on the streets. It was a choice.

AIDS victims deserve it. There is always the case that he or she was raped. That is bad luck. If on the other hand he or she chose to have sex with another being who turned out to be hiv positive and they caught the virus, they deserve it. They are stupid. Generally this only happens in people that sleep around. If you do not sleep around, and your partner does not sleep around, how did you get it? There are cases where bad luck plays a roll, broken condom, things like that. But if you knowingly risk your health like that and something bad happens, I'm sorry but I do not feel any sorrow for you. None.

The other case of bad luck is when one party is monogamous and the other party is not, and the first party does not know about the second parties actions. This actually does cause me sorrow, because it could happen to anybody. However, if bad luck was the only thing causing aids to spread, it wouldn't be an epidemic. It is a series of bad choices by a lot of people. That and bug chasers that I cannot relate to.

So I restate, I feel no sympathy for the majority of AIDS victims. They deserve it.


You can't stereotype all homeless people. Understanding the reasons for homelessness is very difficult and complex, people end up on the streets for a wide variety of reasons. Abusive relationships, drug addictions, financial difficulties, growing up in care, mental illnesses all contribute (some people simply prefer that way of life). They haven't the luxury of the same support network that most people have.

It definitely doesn't boil down to bad descisions, if it did have you never made a bad decision yourself? Maybe there are some that deserve it, that's still dependent upon your interpretation of deserve·

Not even going to go there with the aids your opinions verge on psuedo christian guilt based morality which has been done to death on this board. As if we have to feel ashamed about sexuality and wanting something different from monogamy.

No doubt countless HIV/AIDs victims will say they were stupid and made a mistake, mistake != deserve. If you step into the road without looking and get run over (we've all done it), fair enough you're stupid, but you don't deserve to be in a wheelchair for the rest of your life.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is of no fault of your own, how much of a risk is it? Obviously anybody can die in the here and now for no real reason. They get struck by lightning, catch a bullet from the guy down the street firing in the air, have a heart attack do to bad genetics, have the earth open up and swallow them, trip down a flight of stairs on the ice and freeze to death after suffering multiple broken limbs, be in a building such at the WTC or the Oklahoma City Fed building when it is attacked, be in a school such as culumbine when a couple of people go nuts, work for the post office, literally millions of different things could happen that are no fault of your own, or at least very little fault of your own.

That doesn't bother me, I feel sad when that happens, or angry at the people that caused it, or at least something. That is not the point at all.

What I was trying to get across is that I do not understand the point of spending gobs of resources and feeling sorry for people that do things to themselves that cause them a great deal of pain, suffering, and perhaps death.

The hiv thing is only an example, drug addicts are only an example, the homeless people are only an example. The point is that in my opinion, which is an OPINION, and could be wrong, a lot of the time these people deserve what they get, are a burden on society, and I do not feel that I should go out of my way to help them.

I am not a humanitarian, I've found that I am incapable of becoming one. To quote South Park
Quote:
Stan: Cartman, we feel bad for other people.
Carman: What? Freaking weirdos man

That pretty much sums it up for me.

And please stop with the grouping me into a category thing. I hate that, mostly because I find it really easy to go from one category to another and see nothing wrong with that. I try to base how I think about something and how I act about something on what has happened to me in my life. Back that up with some reading from different authors, and then choose how I feel that I should act. If I want to go from what you think of as fundamentalism on one point, to social darwinism on another point, I'm going to, because I do not fit into either group and am simply not one to cave to group thinking.


Gah. :x
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tun wrote:
If you step into the road without looking and get run over (we've all done it), fair enough you're stupid, but you don't deserve to be in a wheelchair for the rest of your life.


Actually, you do. You wouldn't be in the wheelchair if you hadn't been stupid enough to step into the road without looking. Cause and effect.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tun wrote:

It definitely doesn't boil down to bad descisions, if it did have you never made a bad decision yourself? Maybe there are some that deserve it, that's still dependent upon your interpretation of deserve·

Not even going to go there with the aids your opinions verge on psuedo christian guilt based morality which has been done to death on this board. As if we have to feel ashamed about sexuality and wanting something different from monogamy.


First of all, I'm not sure how I could have opinions based on "psuedo christian guilt based morality" as I'm not christian, never judged any of the hypothetical non-monogamous people, and feel that in many ways I'm pretty liberated. Reread, I never touched how I feel about unprotected non monogamous relationships. I never said that drug use is bad. I never said that choosing to do things that result in living on the streets is bad. I hate it when people try to twist words to make it so I am saying things that I never said. Taking things out of context is about the quickest way to piss me off.

Where are you getting that I'm trying to be "better" or "holier than thou". I do not see it at all. I make more mistakes than I should, for instance I drink excessively. Some day it will bite me in the ass, at least potentially. However it is a RISK that I am willing to take. If 20 years from now it kills me or my liver starts to give out, or whatever, oh well, I DESERVE it. It was a conscience decision that resulted in bad things happening to me. It has happened in the past, and will undoubtly happen in the future. The last thing that I would want is for somebody to feel bad for me over it, at least somebody that I do not even know, have never met, and wouldn't feel a like sorrow for if they were in my place.

Quote:
that's still dependent upon your interpretation of deserve·


So why are you unable to cope with the idea that my interpretation of deserve is vastly different from yours?

I guess that all homeless people are homeless people because they WANT to be. Or they would change. People that have AIDS have it becuase they WANT it, or they wouldn't have made the choice that gave it to them. People that are addicted to drugs WANT to be, or they wouldn't have started using in the first place. People that have all of these bleeding hearts crying over them came to their condition because they WANTED to. If they didn't, they would have done something different in their lives and it would never have happened to them in the first place.


Last edited by CrashPat on Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tun
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormy Eyes wrote:
Tun wrote:
If you step into the road without looking and get run over (we've all done it), fair enough you're stupid, but you don't deserve to be in a wheelchair for the rest of your life.


Actually, you do. You wouldn't be in the wheelchair if you hadn't been stupid enough to step into the road without looking. Cause and effect.


To deserve it means the effect would have to be commensurate with the cause.

How do you reconcile being paralysed for life with something everybody does everyday ... makes mistakes ?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think BaronVonOwn has a really good point with his 9/11 example. The cutoff point for when someone deserves something and doesn't seems rather arbitrary. It seems CrashPat lacks empathy ... the hallmark characteristic of a sociopath :twisted:
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrashPat wrote:
If it is of no fault of your own, how much of a risk is it? Obviously anybody can die in the here and now for no real reason. They get struck by lightning, catch a bullet from the guy down the street firing in the air, have a heart attack do to bad genetics, have the earth open up and swallow them, trip down a flight of stairs on the ice and freeze to death after suffering multiple broken limbs, be in a building such at the WTC or the Oklahoma City Fed building when it is attacked, be in a school such as culumbine when a couple of people go nuts, work for the post office, literally millions of different things could happen that are no fault of your own, or at least very little fault of your own.

That doesn't bother me, I feel sad when that happens, or angry at the people that caused it, or at least something. That is not the point at all.

No, it's exactly the point. Heart attacks, lightning strikes, and terrorist attacks are risks just the same as STD's, and people willingly accept these risks everyday. When someone gets struck by lightning, you don't say, "he deserved it because he went outside!" But when someone gets an STD, you do say "he deserved it because he had sex!" My question is, why do you say one, but not the other?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

papal_authority wrote:
I think BaronVonOwn has a really good point with his 9/11 example. The cutoff point for when someone deserves something and doesn't seems rather arbitrary. It seems CrashPat lacks empathy ... the hallmark characteristic of a sociopath :twisted:


Wham, you hit it right on the nose. On both points.
4 examples

Obvious choice with known consequences:
If a guy holds a gun to his head with one bullet somewhere in it and fires and he dies, does he deserve it? Most people would say that he does.

Less obvious choice, still known consequences
If a guy gets aides from sharing a needle with his buddy does he deserve it? I say he does, most people say he doesn't.

A choice, unknown consequences
If a guy gets killed by driving his car, and accidently pulls out in front of somebody, does he deserve it? I say yes, almost everybody else says no.

Not a choice, unknown consequences
If a guy gets killed because he visitted the bank and the bank was robbed, does he deserve it? I say no, but I can assure you that somebody out there thinks he does.


About lacking empathy. I dunno. Maybe I do to some extent. Certainly I am not a sociopath, but I will admit to having anti-social tendencies.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaronVonOwn wrote:
No, it's exactly the point. Heart attacks, lightning strikes, and terrorist attacks are risks just the same as STD's, and people willingly accept these risks everyday. When someone gets struck by lightning, you don't say, "he deserved it because he went outside!" But when someone gets an STD, you do say "he deserved it because he had sex!" My question is, why do you say one, but not the other?


What about the guy that weighs 300 pounds, smokes, and eats soley high fat food and has a history of heart disease in the family. When he has a heart attack does he deserve it? I say he does. He knew the risks and did nothing to eliminate them. Cause and effect.

I think that we can never understand each other because you sympathize way too much for people, and I sympathize very little for people. You have a strong sense of empathy, I have none.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrashPat wrote:
BaronVonOwn wrote:
No, it's exactly the point. Heart attacks, lightning strikes, and terrorist attacks are risks just the same as STD's, and people willingly accept these risks everyday. When someone gets struck by lightning, you don't say, "he deserved it because he went outside!" But when someone gets an STD, you do say "he deserved it because he had sex!" My question is, why do you say one, but not the other?


What about the guy that weighs 300 pounds, smokes, and eats soley high fat food and has a history of heart disease in the family. When he has a heart attack does he deserve it? I say he does. He knew the risks and did nothing to eliminate them. Cause and effect.

I think that we can never understand each other because you sympathize way too much for people, and I sympathize very little for people. You have a strong sense of empathy, I have none.


It has nothing to do with sympathizing with other people, you are simply evading the question. (again I might add)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What question?

Why I say he does and he doesn't?

I'm not sure why. Mostly it is because I think that the one guy basically has to go outside, while the guy in the car does not really have to drive. The guy doing drugs did not have to do that. And the guy with hiv did not have to do what he did to contract it.
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