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ernstp Apprentice
Joined: 19 Aug 2002 Posts: 155 Location: Lund - Sweden
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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[597]
We'll soon has three times as many names in only two (?) days!
This petition is much better written, and it'll probably spread a lot more! |
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dangertools Apprentice
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 278 Location: Saalfelden, Austria
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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ernstp wrote: | We'll soon has three times as many names in only two (?) days! |
two days?
i would say today not two days. look at the time of the post with the link
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=1448496#1448496
and still getting more, 617 at the moment. hopefully ATI recognizes now what's on!
dangertools |
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Acoc Apprentice
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 189 Location: New Jersey, USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Bad news, I got rejected by Slashdot. Could one of you "submit a story" to slashdot that says that golem.de (http://www.golem.de/0408/33079.html) is reporting that a petition is being presented to ATI to urge them to change their Linux driver policies. Then quote the first paragraph of the petition and give the link for the petition. I don't think they'll even read it from me since I got rejected.
My orgional post said that a group from the gentoo forum was creating a petition for ATI to create Linux drivers and then quoted the petition. Too bad tried to give this forum some credit.
John _________________ _There were plenty of times in my century when I was gonna give up, but I never did. Never! Hey, are you even listening to me? Oh, I give up._ Futurama |
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Acoc Apprentice
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 189 Location: New Jersey, USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Also, could you please report where you have posted about this petition so we can hit as many forums and especially news groups that we can.
So far:
Gentoo Forums (kernel & hardware, German, AMD64) - rc
PlanetAMD64
amd64notebooks.com
notebookreview.com
Comuting.net
FreeOrion
Gentoo Chat - thaldyron
Rage3D - ernstp
golem.de - Trebiani
LinuxGames - ernstp
Thanks to the above people and for all those who keep spreading the word.
NOTE: I'll be adding the ones you post to this list so they're all in one spot.
John _________________ _There were plenty of times in my century when I was gonna give up, but I never did. Never! Hey, are you even listening to me? Oh, I give up._ Futurama
Last edited by Acoc on Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:46 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ernstp Apprentice
Joined: 19 Aug 2002 Posts: 155 Location: Lund - Sweden
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:40 am Post subject: |
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I tried another submission to Slashdot, let's see if it gets trough.
I think you should all try, sometimes sheer volume seems to help!
EDIT: Also submitted to LinuxGames.
EDIT2: And Rage3D!
EDIT3: TeamRadeon and Gentoo Games & Players forum.
This is going to be huge! _________________ Tell ATI that you want better linux drivers NOW!
http://www.petitiononline.com/atipet/petition.html |
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dangertools Apprentice
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 278 Location: Saalfelden, Austria
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:27 am Post subject: |
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i posted on the following:
heise.de - Linux/Unix Forum
2 forums of my university (innsbruck)
gentoo.amd64 newsgroup (if not everyone is reading in this forum)
alt.os.linux - The only one where i got an answer
Here the answer from one of alt.os.linux:
Quote: | >> A gentoo'er has startet a petition to ATI to provide better 32bit
>> drivers and to provide 64bit drivers. it would be great to get about
>> 1000 subscriptions, at the moment we stay at 387.
>>
>> http://www.petitiononline.com/atipet/petition.html
>>
>> Georg Schild
Even then, I didn't read it first. Honestly, how dare we tell them "we will
no longer tolerate ATI's poor driver support for Linux"?! This is outright
wrong. First off, we are 5% of market share. They build drivers for
Linux, but if they're not as good as those for Windows, they have a reason:
Windows is their main cash cow, and I don't blame them.
>> This petition is aimed at the designers at ATI who for whatever reason
>> choose not to acknowledge our pleas and specifically at ATI as a company.
Whatever. That's sad. There are plenty of ATI drivers that work fine. So
what if you're trying to play games in Linux? You're not wise if you think
that entitles you to their support. 1) They build drivers for Windows, 2)
99% of all games are written for Windows, 3) Even then, PC Gaming is
stupid, especially in Linux, because a gaming console will give you the
same (if not better) performance for cheaper.
Bottom line, that's out of line.
>> The signers of this petition will no longer purchase ATI products until
>> ATI make a workable 3D accelerated 64-bit driver for Linux and a 32-bit
>> that utilizes the full potential of the Raedon chips.
Wow, that should really scare ATI </sarcasm>. You're not wise if ATI is
going to get all upset about Linux PC gaming, which is less than 1% of the
market in my opinion.
>> Your current 32-bit driver for Linux is so inadequate compared to the one
>> released for Windows that it performs as slow ones many generations older.
>> This must be rectified.
"Must"?! Obviously you have no clue how to talk to a business. You NEVER
tell them they "must" do anything. You ask nicely, not spread FUD. This
petition is a very bad reflection on the Gentoo community.
>> In the event that ATI cannot handle the programming of these drivers, we
>> require all modern ATI chips to be open sourced to the Linux community so
>> that drivers can be made. This would include all schematics and technical
>> information pertaining to the video cards produced by ATI.
"Require"?! Again, you do not ever tell a business what they should and
should not do. ATI is a successful company, and they have been for a
while. What you are asking is way more than you are entitled to. Are you
paying for these schematics? Are you paying for the source code? Then how
dare you ask for something like this?
Honestly, I'd LOVE to email the person who started this petition and give
them a "what's up". Obviously they do not understand business, or
economics, much less simple courtesy. This petition is a bad reflection on
the Gentoo community. Not all Gentoo-ers are like this, I understand that.
However, this person should be reprimanded. I understand free speech and
all, but they are going about it in the wrong way and making points that
they are not entitled to make. If you want to boycott ATI, go ahead. Even
Ghandi was much nicer than this, and history shows that he got his way --
through non-violent, non-aggressive tactics. This letter is aggressive and
assumes that 1000 people can force a company to give away something they
worked hard to make, for free. Maybe the person who started this needs to
stop trying to use --force and such, and stop playing games in Linux.
Nothing wrong with gaming in Linux, but it's wrong to assume that you can
tell a business what to do just because your OpenGL on your ATI chipset
doesn't work in Linux, an OS which is 5% of the market. |
The answering user is NeoSadist. I don't really know what he wants to say us exactly, perhaps that he doesn't like linux, gentoo and users who want to get something for their money. Perhaps he is a windows user
dangertools
Last edited by dangertools on Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thaldyron Apprentice
Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 227 Location: On Earth
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:59 am Post subject: |
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dangertools wrote: | i posted on the following:
heise.de - Linux/Unix Forum
2 forums of my university (innsbruck)
gentoo.amd64 newsgroup (if not everyone is reading in this forum)
alt.os.linux - The only one where i got an answer
Here the answer from one of alt.os.linux:
Quote: |
Wow, that should really scare ATI </sarcasm>. You're not wise if ATI is
going to get all upset about Linux PC gaming, which is less than 1% of the
market in my opinion.
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I don't really know what he wants to say us exactly, perhaps that he doesn't like linux, gentoo and users who want to get something for their money. Perhaps he is a windows user.
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Probably just a stupid troll!
If he thinks that ignoring the issue would be a wise step from ATI he's wrong. Just consider the predicted growth rate of Linux. By 2007 Linux should have at least 5% on the desktop - if ATI continues to spread "sympathy" among Linux users that means they lose >4% of the desktop market.
I do think we are entitled to use words like "must" and "require" since we paid the same price for our cards like the windows users and I don't see a reason to beg them for something that should be obvious.
[923]
[Edit]At the moment this petition is #4 of the top 25 petitions on petitionline [/Edit] |
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Trebiani Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Dec 2003 Posts: 132 Location: Graz, AT
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Obviously they do not understand business, or
economics, much less simple courtesy. This petition is a bad reflection on
the Gentoo community. Not all Gentoo-ers are like this, I understand that.
However, this person should be reprimanded. I understand free speech and
all, but they are going about it in the wrong way and making points that
they are not entitled to make. If you want to boycott ATI, go ahead. Even
Ghandi was much nicer than this, and history shows that he got his way --
through non-violent, non-aggressive tactics. |
thank you for this economics lesson. now we all know enough about business
.... but what about Brent Spar and Shell 1995? |
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604hcl n00b
Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 4
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:48 am Post subject: |
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1219 total signatures!!! If that doesn't get ATI out their easy chair !!!! |
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thaldyron Apprentice
Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 227 Location: On Earth
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jack_mort Apprentice
Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 167
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Posted at Da Linux French Page (waiting for approval)
Hope this petition will lead to something |
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Acoc Apprentice
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 189 Location: New Jersey, USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I do think we are entitled to use words like "must" and "require" since we paid the same price for our cards like the windows users and I don't see a reason to beg them for something that should be obvious. |
I agree totally, I think that sums up everything,
As for NeoSadist- I knew that we would get some people like this. Not everyone is going to like this petition. He seemed to make two points- that Linux is too small of a marketshare for ATI to care and that I was too forceful. I laugh at his last paragraph because he thinks that I was too forceful.
The idea of the whole petition was to show that Linux users cannot support a company who doesn't support them. He is right that this is a small group and ATI could very well completely ignore us, but it's better to have tried and failed then to never have tried at all. This petition is different from the other two on petitiononline because it IS forceful to show that the people who run Linux have had enough of ATI and it's problems. If NeoSadist looks at the main message of the petition, it shows that we are no longer going to buy ATI products until they fix this problem. That in itself is "Forceful." So yes this could be considered a bit on the agressive side, but all the 1300 people who have signed in one day so far seem to think it's the next logical step. Also, all those "musts" and "requires", they mean that ATI must do those things before we will buy any more of their products.
As for the open sourcing the drivers. If NeoSadist did any research he would see that they have open sourced many of their last generation drivers. Everyone on this forum knows that the only reason I added this point was to try and provide a compromise for ATI, even though I knew that it would never work. I did understand that the business could never be run that way, but I had to give them that option because it would solve our problems and their technical problems.
He seems to think that this is solely for Linux gaming. This isn't the case, personally I'll use the drivers more for CAD work. I would say NeoSadist is one of two people: 1) He runs Linux as a server - thereby not needing video cards and for some reason thinks that Linux will never grow to the desktop 2) He's a windows user (enough said).
John _________________ _There were plenty of times in my century when I was gonna give up, but I never did. Never! Hey, are you even listening to me? Oh, I give up._ Futurama
Last edited by Acoc on Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dangertools Apprentice
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 278 Location: Saalfelden, Austria
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:39 am Post subject: |
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I think i quoted the text a bit false. You blame on me! I am Georg . I am subscriber No 11. On the text above stands "Georg Schild wrote:" which stands for the first paragraph where i say that there is the petition. i am not the troll. i have deleted the "Georg Schild wrote:" part now of the post that no one thinks that i have something against the partition.
dangertools == Georg Schild |
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Acoc Apprentice
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 189 Location: New Jersey, USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I am very sorry. I reread your post right after I had comitted mine and noticed that it wasn't Georg, but NeoSadist. I changed everything in my post as fast as I could, hoping that no one saw it. It was only on for a minute, so I'm sure not many people other than us saw it. Again I'm sorry about the misquote.
John _________________ _There were plenty of times in my century when I was gonna give up, but I never did. Never! Hey, are you even listening to me? Oh, I give up._ Futurama |
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dangertools Apprentice
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 278 Location: Saalfelden, Austria
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:50 am Post subject: |
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forgiven and forgotten. can happen
EDIT: An other thing: jhuebel or another mod could make a link to the sticky ATI support post on top of the amd64 forum and perhaps a sticky post to hardware/kernel forum. do the mods do such things on their own or has someone to ask for this?
dangertools |
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ernstp Apprentice
Joined: 19 Aug 2002 Posts: 155 Location: Lund - Sweden
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Damn, I also got rejected by slashdot!
Posted to sweclockers.se forums.
1500 !!!
Soon we'll reach top 25 on petitiononline.com! _________________ Tell ATI that you want better linux drivers NOW!
http://www.petitiononline.com/atipet/petition.html |
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rc Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2003 Posts: 234
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Just noticed that doom3maps.de also posted a news about that petition.
greetings,
rc |
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ernstp Apprentice
Joined: 19 Aug 2002 Posts: 155 Location: Lund - Sweden
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pjp Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Acoc wrote: | Here is the petition, thanks for all the input.
http://www.petitiononline.com/atipet/petition.html
If anyone knows anything about how to present this as a topic in slashdot please post it. I am a member and moderator (like many others), but have never posted to it.
John | Since this isn't visible until page 3, followups to this thread. A petition doesn't really belong in a support forum anyway. _________________ Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
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