Ver 1.4 to wait for 2.4.20 kernel?

[RKrueger]

I can almost guess the answer, but the question is whether Gentoo can wait for the 2.4.20 kernel before distributing their final version?
The reason is that I was recently informed that the 2.4.19 has issues with ATAPI drives, this info I have included below.

//////////////////////////////////
The root of your problem is that in current 2.4.x kernels, if you don't have a
piece of media in your removable media ATAPI drive (your ZIP drive) when you
boot the kernel, and you are using devfs, the drive will not show up in
/dev/discs. Also, if you are using devfsd, no compatibility symlinks will be
created, since the main entry was not created. Even if you do have media in the
drive when you boot the kernel, if you later change media the kernel will not do
a very good job of updating the /dev entries to match the new media.
<snip>
The simple solution is to wait for the
2.4.20 kernel to be released, it should have a patch to make the drive appear
even without media in it at boot time.

/////////////////////////
I'm currently using the .19 kernel, and am not able to use supermount to access the internal IDE ZIP I have installed.
Another fellow has been trying to talk me into loading up Gentoo when your final version comes out on CD, but if this issue that I referred to still exists, I may want to wait.

regards,
Robert

[pjp]

The gentoo-dev mailing list might be a good place to mention this.
_________________
Quis separabit? Quo animo?

[RKrueger]

Well, I posted this as you suggested. Probably not much hope for that suggestion, however.
I will say that from observing the mail in three of Gentoo's mailing lists, there seems to be a lot of unhappy campers. Seems like there's a few issues to be resolved before the 1.4 final should be released. Hope this isn't another outfit like RH, that releases it and hopes for the best. Since there isn't the "bottom line" issue as with RH, I don't see the problem with holding it back for a bit until some of these issues are resolved.
Just an observers $.02 worth.

Robert

[pjp]

I don't think 1.4 will be released until it is ready. There have already been alot of people whining about the release being late. A developer made the mistake of 'estimating' a mid-August release date.
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Quis separabit? Quo animo?

[rac]

Gentoo is not afraid of patching kernels. I would not be at all surprised to see lostlogic add this patch (do you have a link to it?) to a gentoo kernel even before vanilla 2.4.20 is released.
_________________
For every higher wall, there is a taller ladder

[rommel]

personally i am still running 1.2 and my system is extremely stable and everything works....i am not guru and like to experiment to a point but most of it is beyond what i know to do and requiers more time then would be practicle for me (since i in no way am dependant on a pc for anything in my life other then a hoby)

being new to linux (april of this year) i like the way linux and gentoo inparticualr has constant updating of programs and system utilities and run emerge rsync and emerge -u world everyday, but with something as critical as gcc i would think it best for them to wait a prudent amount of time to resolve as many issues that can be forseen so that the upgraded gentoo version is as usable and problem free as 1.2 has been for me. (problems i have had with gentoo have been more from my ignorance then anything related to gentoo with the exception of a couple of gentoo kernels)

well thats my rant

[RKrueger]

Well, I guess I could qualify myself as an "intermediate" linux person. I've installed 4 RedHat systems, and 4 Mandrake systems over the last three years.
I also used to love to program in C and C++, something I did for about 16 years, but since moving to Linux, I frankly haven't had the time. I spend -all- my available time either configuring or repairing the system so that ordinary things function correctly. When I speak of ordinary, I mean drives, sound, CD-ROMS, Zip drives, USB devices, printers, print quality issues and desktop KDE issues that just never seem to get fixed from one version to the next. Everyone in the Mandrake / RedHat camps is in a big hurry to get it to the street so they can start recouping their development money. They both offer support, but at a premium price to their customers. But this premium price does not necessarily equate to competent support experience, in most cases they hardly read your well-composed letter before they crank out a pre-formatted response from their compiled databases of support incidents to see if this will satisfy your needs. Only after 2- 3 more tries does someone finally decide this may really be a problem and try to address your issue properly.
While I realize that some may wonder why I continue with Linux at all, it has excellent potential and is a sound system basically. It would be nice to find a distribution that had taken the time to get basic things correct before sending it out the door. I know this is not a perfect world, and that extends to Linux as well. Not everything will work everytime, but using somewhat normal configurations, utilizing somewhat normal devices that I mentioned before, the system should load and function correctly for the vast majority of users.
IMO, Linux is not ready yet for prime time on the desktop circuit, but they are getting close. So I know from experience that once a large project gets close to completion, the incentive is to "get it over with", and lets see how many problems there is that we didn't have time to test. Let the customer be the testbed.
I would hope that the Gentoo folks in development would not succumb to pushing an unfinished product out the door. While I truly know there is no such thing as "finished" when it comes to large amounts of code, there is a reasonable level of code maturity that simply comes from exhaustive testing. I am watching Gentoo personally to observe the type and frequency of issues, only because i may want to load Gentoo up down the road, and maybe, just maybe, I can get a break from configuring and get back to programming.

Regards,
Robert

[sulu]

Ho RKrueger

[RKrueger]

My sentiments exactly. For instance, in kernel 2.4.19, devfsd would not keep the necessary files in /dev for access to my internal IDE 256Mb Zip drive. I worked on this, reading and printing all kinds of docs for about 3 weeks. Come to find out that the kernel was the problem. Problem was, it worked correctly in 2.4.18, so whatever they "fixed" for the upgrade broke something else. The only solution is to wait for 2.4.20, and that is not guaranteed to remedy the problem.
KDE has had printing and font problems for a long time. While many have complained, it still remains to be fixed. The only browser I have found that works correctly for mail, printing, accessing sites with javascript, security, or essentially, what people expect, is Mozilla.
Both Mandrakes and RedHats update utilities won't hold a candle to Ximian Gnomes Red Carpet updater for ease of use, reliability and function. I hear Debian's apt-get is good, but I haven't used it. But it would be hard to beat Red Carpet, although I'm not a Gnome person.
When you install a new program, both KDE and Gnome lack "dynamic" menu's, which means the new program will not automatically be recognized and become part of the user menu for easy access.
While RedHat hasen't subscribed to the new Linux standards, Mandrake, SuSe and others have, which create similar directory structures so third party developers don't have to create separate tarballs for each version. The kernel is the kernel, period. Everybody uses the same thing as a base, so standardizing on file placement, directory names and structures is essential for Linux to grow and attract developers that will increase it's ease of use for both the user and system administrators who are forced to battle with distribution issues such as these.
The list could go on, but I am hoping that the Gentoo developers recognize these issues and don't rush to put 1.4 on the street. While people are basically impatient, you only get one chance to make a first impression, as they say, so when 1.4 -does- finally get released the reviews will address ease of installation, ease of device recognition, and how much post-install configuration is necessary to make the system work as it should.
While I don't know what I'll get, I sure know what I've had, and I'm looking for a system that works first time out, has good security, and includes selected components that work well together, and were chosen for their reputation as a complete, fully functional product.

Robert