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placeholder Advocate
Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 2500
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Always ignore the sensible one.... |
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PowerFactor Veteran
Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: out of it
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
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John5788 wrote: | since we're talking about editors, whats the equivalent of ee, the default editor in freebsd, in gentoo? i tried looking for ee in portage, but i cant find it. |
Try app-editors/easyedit. |
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Dr Gonzo Apprentice
Joined: 31 Jan 2004 Posts: 276 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:47 am Post subject: |
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papal_authority wrote: | Quote: |
But, what is it about being able to use the most archaic text editor on the planet that makes somebody elite?
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Because something's old does not make it bad. By that reasoning we should scrap awk, sed and C and use something new and shiny like Visual Basic .NET It also has nothing to do with being elite. Many of us used vi first on other UNIX systems and got to know it. It's lightweight and very powerful. |
Sorry, I was referring to an earlier post.:
Quote: | As far as I'm concerned, the things I want to do is done way faster in vi than nano. It gives me better markup for almost everything (including Makefiles and config files)..
But most important of all, it makes me l33t. |
I guess what really bugs me here is that people can't seem to get along without vi for the few hours it takes to get the Gentoo system up and running. I mean, gimme a break. If you figured out the insane number of cryptic vi commands, it's really not that hard to figure out nano's. (BTW, they're written on the bottom of the screen.)
I actually use UW Pico for editing config files most of the time. Same thing, really. And Pico has been around for ages. Emacs is best for programming, in my opinion. It may not be the most lightweight editor in town, but I think the keyboard shortcuts and such are way better.
When I said archaic, I guess I really should have said:
arcane adj. requiring secret or mysterious knowledge; "the arcane science of dowsing" _________________ "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."
George W. Bush |
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placeholder Advocate
Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 2500
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:55 am Post subject: |
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Wow, you people really know how to argue about deep issues. |
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Dr Gonzo Apprentice
Joined: 31 Jan 2004 Posts: 276 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Damn straight. _________________ "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."
George W. Bush |
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jwj Apprentice
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 240
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 1:13 am Post subject: |
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Is there a vi in the ports, that links statically and installs into /bin? |
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lightvhawk0 Guru
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 388
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Only beef with nano is that after bootstrapping I have to do a emerge nano && emerge -C nano to remove it. Other than that I can bear it. Babies! _________________ If God has made us in his image, we have returned him the favor. - Voltaire |
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minhtang Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 17 Oct 2003 Posts: 76
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Well, from darksaidin post, vi maybe a good way to lower the egos of all those ego-maniacs. Give them a text file to edit with vi and watch as their face get red from not being able to handle a text editor Hell yeah, can emacs beat that ? _________________ Three minutes of thought would suffice to find this out. But then, thought is irksome, and three minutes is a rather long time.
-- A.E. Houseman |
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Goalie_Ca Apprentice
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 156 Location: Vancouver,B.C
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Nano has really stupid linewrapping. I don't like nano -w and i don't like nano. VIM is really nice, but i can understand how n00bs would hate to use it. How many people can figure out esc+:q! or esc+dd or whatever. Last thing you want is another page in the handbook relating to vi.
That said, i think it should include both.
Right now my main goal is lobbying lynx instead that stupid links. _________________ Jabber: goalieca[AT]jabber.fr
Beautiful Vancouver, B.C.
http://www.sfu.ca/~rdickie/images/sig_small.jpg |
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placeholder Advocate
Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 2500
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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People always seem to have problems with accepting that some people like different things. For one thing, I like links better than lynx. However, I really don't care if you hate or whatever, because I like it so who cares? Also, nano is highly simplistic and seeing that I don't do tons of editing that requires an uber-complex editor then nano is lite and it suits me well.
Some people might want vim or whatever, well then use it. It doesn't bother me that you have another preference than me. Why does it not bother me? See, I'm not an over-opinionated baby who always wants things my way or else. I might be highly territorial like a cat, but I'm not that bad. |
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d0nju4n Apprentice
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 283 Location: Rochester, MN
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 4:02 am Post subject: |
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I just coudn't image a total linux n00b trying to use vi to edit config files during the gentoo install. vi is not an easy text editor to start out with _________________ Linux User 355087 |
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dmartin Apprentice
Joined: 19 Jan 2004 Posts: 158 Location: Saint Louis, MO, USA
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 4:40 am Post subject: |
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I like chocolate pudding. Deal with it vanilla lovers. |
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justanothergentoofanatic Guru
Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Posts: 337
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I like chocolate pudding. Deal with it vanilla lovers. |
Chocolate pudding is a satanic cancer whose vile metastises are well-known to support the corruption of traditional American values by radical sodomite communists, litigious French baby-killing bastards, savage Negro feminist provocateuring heathens, and other rabble-rousing trouble-makers and malcontents.
** To save the children, we must finally cleanse the solution of all that is impure.
-Mike
We now return to your regularly scheduled flame-war. |
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Hauser l33t
Joined: 27 Dec 2003 Posts: 650 Location: 4-dimensional hyperplane
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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I used to use vi a lot, but ever since I've been using gentoo I find myself using nano more and more often. I guess I'm too lazy to type emerge vim. _________________ AMD Athlon XP 2600+; 512M RAM;
nVidia FX5700LE; Hitachi 120Gb
2.6.9-nitro4, reiser4, linux26-headers+nptl
Do I like to compile everything?
Positive definite! |
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abzs2k Apprentice
Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 181 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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If vi is part of the POSIX standard then by not including it we are just as bad as Microsoft (remember css2??). _________________ I am never wrong. I am simply misinterpreted.
*This User Observes Netiquette Compliance* |
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PowerFactor Veteran
Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: out of it
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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abzs2k wrote: | If vi is part of the POSIX standard then by not including it we are just as bad as Microsoft (remember css2??). |
If there were such a thing as a 100% POSIX compliant linux distro, or if gentoo were trying to use strongarm tactics to create their own standards, then maybe that argument would have some validity.
A more relavent question would be is vi/ex commonly used in shell scripts. I haven't run across one where it is. And including it in the base system seems like a waste since most "vi users" are actually vim users. So why have vi installed too?
And I know that gentoo is not alone in not instaling vi by default. Redhat9 installs vim-enhanced but not vi by default. And there is no /bin/vi, one of the OP's compaints, on redhat either. On RH9 by default vi is aliased to vim, which is installed in /usr/bin. I've got a basic debian "sarge" setup and it has nvi(dont' know if that is a POSIX compliant vi or not) installed but it is not in /bin.
So, this is not something that gentoo is realy going alone on. |
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georwell Guru
Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 430 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Nano for newbies and that is a good default for Gentoo. But newbies should take up the task of learning vi. Simply because it is installed on every single Unix system you will ever use.
Not to mention it is a very very advanced text editor and will make your life easier in the long run. If you ever go for a sysadmin position and they run a quick test on you and ask you to edit some file and you use nano or pico you will already be losing points.
I like emacs too but for sshing to remote servers and working vi is still and always will be KING |
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Brother Dysk Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 29 Sep 2003 Posts: 131 Location: Hong Kong SAR PRC
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Why vi? Emacs uber alles!
Including vi would piss off a lot of emacs-fanatics. Including emacs would piss off a lot of vi-fanatics. Inculding nano pisses off everyone, and so it's fair
Actually, nano is a great little proggie. It's no coding environment, but I don't miss any functionality when editing config files, make files, et cetera. |
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Stormy Eyes Veteran
Joined: 09 Apr 2003 Posts: 1064 Location: Watching God spit-shine my boots.
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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By Lilith's lacy black silk panties, I can't believe you people are still arguing over whether or not vim should be included in the live CDs. |
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Drewgrange Guru
Joined: 29 Mar 2003 Posts: 483 Location: Ohio, US
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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I love nano because it's simple. The commands you need are right there along the bottom. I remember being pissed when I was using SuSE and had to use emacs, who wants to read a manual for editing simple text? |
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placeholder Advocate
Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 2500
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Nano is simple and perfect for getting the job done IMO. I really don't think that the Gentoo devs should add vim just to appease you all. Stop arguing about it, because on a scale of one to ten, this is really retarded. Now why don't you guys[arguers] all shut up and go make a pie. |
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ratbert90 Apprentice
Joined: 28 May 2003 Posts: 177
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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vi isn't licensed under the gpl _________________ Ph33R mY l337 H|_|R|) 0F G|\||_|Z!! |
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Stormy Eyes Veteran
Joined: 09 Apr 2003 Posts: 1064 Location: Watching God spit-shine my boots.
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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ratbert90 wrote: | vi isn't licensed under the gpl |
Isn't the original vi licensed under BSD? Also, the only difference between Vim's license and GPL seems to be a little "help kids in Uganda" nag. |
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dmartin Apprentice
Joined: 19 Jan 2004 Posts: 158 Location: Saint Louis, MO, USA
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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georwell wrote: | Nano for newbies and that is a good default for Gentoo. But newbies should take up the task of learning vi. Simply because it is installed on every single Unix system you will ever use.
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Huh? I switched to Linux to have a free (in both senses of the word) desktop system for my home PC. I didn't switch to learn Unix. I don't need to learn Unix. Neither do 99% of the world's computer users.
As more and more users switch to Linux as I did, very few of them ever need the power of vi. Most of us aren't even interested in command line text processing. Even if it is more powerful, I don't need power.
I chose Gentoo because I liked not having to manage all the packages involved, and I liked the idea of keeping every peice of software on my desktop system up to date with one command. That's something even Windows can't do for me. I didn't choose it to be a gateway to Unix.
Quote: | I remember being pissed when I was using SuSE and had to use emacs, who wants to read a manual for editing simple text? |
Precisely. Anyone with a small amount of computer experience can use Nano. This definitely isn't the case with vi.
Some of us don't do command line text editing often enough to justify learning something advanced like vi.
I'd rather be fishing - and I don't even fish. |
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Stormy Eyes Veteran
Joined: 09 Apr 2003 Posts: 1064 Location: Watching God spit-shine my boots.
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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dmartin wrote: | Some of us don't do command line text editing often enough to justify learning something advanced like vi. |
You do know that Vim can be built to use the GTK libs to provide a GUI, right? You might not do commandline text editing, but having a GUI editor comes in damned handy sometimes. |
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