Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Intel, AMD, Microsoft/Palladium & the TCPA
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TheCoop
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 Jun 2002
Posts: 1814
Location: Where you least expect it

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i bet ms will find some way of getting proper palladium systems to refuse to boot any non-ms mbr (ie, grub or lilo), that would really force windows down peoples throats
_________________
95% of all computer errors occur between chair and keyboard (TM)

"One World, One web, One program" - Microsoft Promo ad.
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler

Change the world - move a rock
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radiouk
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not looking forward to TCPA either. I can't see compaines like Redhat or Suse standing back letting this happen. Surly they would fight. What about "Human rights" TCPA would break "human rights"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radiouk
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot to add- wonder what the Chineese government will make off TCPA/ Palldium? I bet they tell M$ is f**k off! I can't see other Goverment liking TCPA either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 18350

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to having their own linux distro, China is working on making their own processors.
_________________
The media sells it and you live the role.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radiouk
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done the Chineese :D I hope they sell them in Eupore. I want to buy one 8) I cant' see other Goverments putting up with this either. I would give the US/ or M$ to much power. antonik- you don't seem to understand mate when TCPA comes it will be to late to do anything about it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Agitator[RoX]
n00b
n00b


Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Kalmar/Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as mentioned before, most ov the servers on any net is run on *nix systems. Well, thats a pretty good base to stand on for the comanies that dont like TCPA... And they'll probably make some hardware like before. And people will buy their hardware just because it isn't palladium.
And I cant see how any comany would like to run a bunch of computers with the palladium. Regarding secrets, and such alike. If some huge mongo company, proven to be only interrested in profit, has the control, and complete look into their systems... Well, nah, that doesn't just have a sound ring to it.

And I'm quite sure this is illegal in a lot of places in the world. Sweden for instance. Though I'm not sure. MS has yet to be dragged to court for their damn spyware in XP... But then again, the user leaves all their rights at the front door when installing, EULA...
But what about computers that has the OS preinstalled when you buy them? YOU never said it was okay...
_________________
"Linux is metal"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheCoop
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 Jun 2002
Posts: 1814
Location: Where you least expect it

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ask for a refund when you buy it. If you can't, just walk out.
_________________
95% of all computer errors occur between chair and keyboard (TM)

"One World, One web, One program" - Microsoft Promo ad.
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler

Change the world - move a rock
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radiouk
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agitator[RoX]- you have raised some good points there. I 'm sure TCPA will be illegal in most countires. I hope it is illegal in the UK. Intel and AMD have already started building TCPA processor now.. they could be on sale in May this year. People could buy a new computer next year with TCPA hardware in it without even knowing :( I think I'm going to move to China 8)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
idl
Retired Dev
Retired Dev


Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 1728
Location: Nottingham, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks to me like TCPA is being in a way sneeked onto us. The cpus will come out early with the ability buil it, but theres no software so people wont realy care as it doesnt effect them yet. But then in 3 years time everyone has the CPU and bam! Microsoft releases the new windows, everyone gradualy upgrades. All of a sudden Microsoft owns you.
_________________
a.k.a port001
Found a bug? Please report it: Gentoo Bugzilla
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 18350

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

port001 wrote:
All of a sudden Microsoft owns you.
That pretty much already happened.
_________________
The media sells it and you live the role.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radiouk
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TCPA computers are allready on sale. The IBM Thinkpad X30, Netvista is "TCPA-compliant" I found this- a list of compianies that have signed up to TCPA http://www.againsttcpa.com/tcpa-members.html


Pls sign the TCPA pettion- http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?endtcpa1
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zephyr1256
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 170
Location: Kingsport, TN

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like linux kernels will have to evolve to have options to support TCPA in the future. :cry: Hopefully there will be some governments that stand up to this. This is definitely a problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Idnas
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 10:33 pm    Post subject: Flamebait? Reply with quote

This is probably going to get me flamed severely, but here goes.

Firstly, could someone please point me to the part of the official TCPA specification that suggests anyone can "spy" on our PCs without our knowledge, physically block us from installing our favorite OS, or compromise our computers in any other way? All the statements made on this so far have had no direct references to back them up.
(The official documents are at http://www.trustedcomputing.org/tcpaasp4/index.asp)

Secondly, I would like to point you to a post by Radiouk on this forum and to IBM's TCPA linux website at http://www.research.ibm.com/gsal/tcpa/ (I thank Edi on the linux-thinkpad mailing list for this link).

As far as I can tell, the TCPA is far from being the pure evil that everyone here seems to be implying (I can't say the same for Palladium or LaGrande, as I have not read their specifications).

Like most of you, I don't have a TCPA enabled computer, but as long as I could install Gentoo on such a computer, I would certainly not use that as a reason not to buy it. I would probably even download the TCPA linux drivers from IBM's site and see if I could get it to work with SSH, SSL and MD5.

I guess the main point I am trying to make here is that maybe linux users should start being a bit more objective when talking about what is in many ways a step forward for computers. Anyone who has been affected by trojans, crackers etc... would agree that computers today are slightly lacking with "trust" features. Perhaps this could be used for DRM, but whether through legislation or closed source software we are having to deal with that anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radiouk
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idnas- you might want to read this- http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Idnas
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Radiouk - Thanks for the link. I have actually read Ross Anderson's article on TCPA and Palladium quite a while ago, and I agree that much of what he is talking about is quite disturbing to say the least.

However, I would like to point out that at the bottom of the second page of David Safford's Rebuttal (PDF file--sorry, I can't find an HTML version) he lists a number of direct counter-points to Anderson's article. I'm not saying that his words are any more reliable, but it is still more interesting to read both sides of an active debate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radiouk
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idnas- I have read David Safford's Rebuttal. The one thing that worries me is this: M$ have a large number if patents on the hardware modifications, so M$ could easily block Linux for using these features.

Also I don't trust TCPA.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
seph429
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 15
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally i consider this a violation of the what the United States does believe in. The US has always been considered a free country, allowing us to do what we want (within restriction). How i see this TCPA, is that we are slowly going to lose our freedoms. I think this will spawn a whole mess of things (I actually heard something about making it illegal to rent out videos like from blockbuster but it might have just been rumor) that will slowly just degrade our freedoms.
And i also think Bush won't care, all he cares about his trying to make himself be a "memorable" president because of all this war bullshit.

(Sorry that seemed a bit off topic towards the end there)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radiouk
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!
I consider TCPA a violation of my "human rights"




TCPA petition- http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?endtcpa1&651
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radiouk
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2003 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25988.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RdsArts
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 190
Location: MI, USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2003 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one were really worried about it, one COULD always just pick up a PPC based Mac and install their OS of choice on that...

/devil's advocate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JuhazOne
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Finland, Vantaa

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linux has developed tremendously over the past few years and will probably continue to do so. By the time we have Palladium (or NGSCB, as they now seem to call it), Linux will hopefully be a real alternative to M$ OSes for common people. If people can make a choice between a free, stable and easy OS vs an expensive, buggy one that does things behind your back, it isn't so evident that M$ will win. Maybe M$ is digging its own grave with this Palladium thing?

On the other hand, if things looked really bad for them, M$ has the money to give away free copies of Windows. Companies and many people would be delighted to get their favorite OS for free, so things might turn in Microsoft's favor again.

Anyone have a spare nuke we could drop at Redmond?
_________________
Hi! :) I'm a signature virus. Copy me into your signature to help me spread!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheCoop
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 Jun 2002
Posts: 1814
Location: Where you least expect it

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ask the us
_________________
95% of all computer errors occur between chair and keyboard (TM)

"One World, One web, One program" - Microsoft Promo ad.
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler

Change the world - move a rock
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radiouk
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Microsoft To Demo 'Palladium' At WinHEC
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,4248,976208,00.asp
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/
All the people I have spoken to about TCPA...hate it.





TCPA petition-
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?endtcpa1&651
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum