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masseya
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:48 am    Post subject: Rest of the World Conquors the U.S. Reply with quote

...in basketball. Here's a link about the what and a link about the why.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here I thought it might have been something worth reading about.
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masseya
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you are from Indiana, Basketball is the only thing worth reading about. (Even if you go to Purdue..)

Here's another good link to look at about the history of the World Basketball Championships.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use to like basketball. Then it became only about money. *sigh* Larry Bird, Dennis Johnson, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Tiny Archibald. There was that other guy, Magic Johnson too. Not too many years later, the sport took a bullett train into the wastelands.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kanuslupus wrote:
I use to like basketball. Then it became only about money.

Name one mainstream sport (American or otherwise) that isn't only about the money.

I used to like college sports until they became just about the money. (Most big college football schools pay their football coaches 10x as much as they pay the dean of the school)

--kurt
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
kanuslupus wrote:
I use to like basketball. Then it became only about money.

Name one mainstream sport (American or otherwise) that isn't only about the money.
The NFL reached the all-about-money stage a long time ago. Baseball, well, I've never had a remote interest in it to know. 9th strike since the 70's (or '70?) says alot. Tennis doesn't seem to be greatly affected by it yet. Golf isn't yet, but could be close. A few years ago when I had an interest in NASCAR, they weren't only about the money. I no longer watch, but I don't think they've crossed the line yet. Not being a sports person, I can't think of other sports that would qualify as mainstream enough. Oh, Hockey. Though money is a factor, the players (mostly?) still seem interested in the game.

As the thread mentioned basketball, I just kept my comments to that sport. ;)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with team sports like football, baseball, basketball etc, is that today's punk kids don't give a damn about the team and only want their gold-capped teeth and bling-bling shown on TV when they make the most meaningless play. Like hitting a 3-point shot when your still down 15 points and you start dancing and screaming. Heads up, junior: YOU ARE AN ASS.

Anyway because of this lack of "team concept", they all want the money for themselves and they want it now. I guess I can see the viewpoint of "don't blame them for wanting more" and "don't blame the agents". If dumbass owners wouldn't pay so much, they wouldn't need to raise ticket and food prices ($35 for 6 beers? wtf?) so that your average American family can't even go to a game now.

But them you have asshats like Tom Hicks who pays A-Rod $25 million per season, and then claims that there is a problem and whine whine whine. Jerry Reinsdorf did the same thing in reverse a couple of years ago, complain about exorbitant player salaries, then turned around and signed Albert Belle to what was then a huge contract with the White Sox.

The ONLY, and I mean ONLY, solution is for fans to finally say "FUCK OFF" and not go to games and not pay for merchandise. Take your family to the local non-MLB-affiliated team and have a good time with the corny games and contests and watch players who don't get paid and don't worry about TV cameras and their SportsCenter highlights. Support your local high school athletics as well. See these kids before they realize they are sort of good and become total asses about it.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rizzo wrote:
The ONLY, and I mean ONLY, solution is for fans to finally say "FUCK OFF" and not go to games and not pay for merchandise

Amen to that. Haven't been to a ballgame (base, foot, bastket) in nearly two years now.

It also helps that I hate the Yankees (or more precisely, George Steinbrenner) with a passion...

--kurt
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My team (unfortunately) is the Milwaukee Brewers. I went to a game last year just to see the new Miller Park. I also went to a Brewers-Cubs game just to see Wrigley field.

But Brewers ownership is a joke and have no interest in trying to field a winning team.

So screw 'em.

But I can still root for the Packers, IMHO.
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masseya
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I hear what you're all saying. I understand that there's a lot less, or practically no, team play in professional sports and that's making it less fun to watch. I don't think sports like Golf or Tennis will be affected by this because, uh, there's no team. Having the fans stop going to games isn't going to happen. That's like waiting for people to stop spending their only income on 300 lottery tickets rather than, say, food. It's just not going to happen. Why not just enjoy what's left of it?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
Name one mainstream sport (American or otherwise) that isn't only about the money.

I believe Rugby in Europe is not only about money.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus individual sports like golf, tennis, or even (ugh) auto racing are very different in that the participants (refuse to call NASCAR people athletes) derive a great part of their income from commercial sponsorships. The clothes they wear, and in some cases the advertisements covering their jumpsuits and cars and golf bags.

Basically there isn't an "owner" driving fans away. Possibly the players won't play in a tournament if the prize money isn't high enough. But I would think that most of the prize money is from sponsors also (the BUICK open, the Virginia Slims classic, etc). Granted I'm sure tickets to the U.S. Open of tennis are quite pricey, but oh well. I'd pay to see Sampra play before I pay to see Reggie Miller trip over his shoes and the refs call a foul on the Bucks for it.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a huge Reggie Miller fan. (Sorry, rizzo..) It's nice to see the scrawny guy win sometimes. :)

Actually, he's one of the best athletes that Indiana has ever had in terms of being active in the community. He's fabulous. I know he's a jerk on the court, but name someone who isn't. He more than makes up for it with community activism.

Maybe if Peyton keeps doing what he's doing and plays for another decade or so he'll come close to Reggie..
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tristam29 wrote:
I know he's a jerk on the court, but name someone who isn't.


Ray Allen.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fmalabre wrote:
I believe Rugby in Europe is not only about money.

Is rugby considered "mainstream" in Europe?

If so, how much does a typicall "star" rugby player make and how much does a ticket to a game with an above-average team cost?

--kurt
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
Is rugby considered "mainstream" in Europe?

If so, how much does a typicall "star" rugby player make and how much does a ticket to a game with an above-average team cost?

In some countries like France, Ireland, Great Brittain, ... yes, it's considered "mainstream".

Actually this sport turned up professional not long ago, so I have no clue about salaries and stuff...
Some europeans can comment?
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masseya
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rizzo wrote:
Tristam29 wrote:
I know he's a jerk on the court, but name someone who isn't.


Ray Allen.

Perhaps it's a bit ovely pessimistic to paint them all with the same brush, but saying that there's a kind and courteous NBA player (while on the court) is like saying there were kind hearted, Jew loving Nazis. They are very few and far between. Whether Ray Allen is one or not is another topic. He's certainly better than Glen Robinson, but that doesn't say much.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rizzo wrote:
Plus individual sports like golf, tennis, or even (ugh) auto racing are very different in that the participants (refuse to call NASCAR people athletes) derive a great part of their income from commercial sponsorships.
Team sports are the same way. The big money comes from endorsements. Most of Jordan's fortune didn't come from salary (which was quite significant). As for not referring to NASCAR participants as athletes, I call to your attention football players. Most of them have little athletic ability. They run for 20 yards and sit on a bench, winded. *rotflmao* These are athletes? Puh-lease. Any idea how draining it is to drive a car for 3hrs at 130(deg. F), or more? Baseball can be my next target? There is no more athleticism in that sport than NASCAR. Hand-eye coordination, but no significant amount of athleticism. I'm not saying FB or BB players aren't athletes, I'm just arguing that NASCAR drivers are athletes. Also, NASCAR is very much a team sport. The pit crew is absolutely critical to the success of a driver. In many cases the pit crew displays as much athleticism as anyone in baseball ever did.

Getting back to the money issue. I don't care how much a player makes if they demonstrate that it isn't their priority. Why, you might ask? As far as I know, there is no salary cap on the owners off the team. Does management have restrictions? If people are willing to pay the price to see the tickets, the players deserver as much of the money as the owners/management do. IMO anyone willing to pay $35 for 6 beers has more money than sense. No offense, thats just ridiculous. Nevermind the cost of tickets.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[img:6ea0989a11]http://www.terra.com/deportes/especiales/baloncesto2002/galerias/foto2.jpg[/img:6ea0989a11]
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unghhh....my nationalistic pride is conflicting with my apathetic views towards basketball...

Calling the current U.S. team a "dream team" is like calling a '73 Pinto a luxury car. In terms of talent and ability, we didn't send our A team. Hell, we didn't even send our B or C team. We sent the practice squad from the local YMCA. Our "dream team" was too busy being enamored with themselves to be bothered playing for their country...

Yes, we lost and yes, it's a black eye on US basketball. But no one beat a US "dream team".

--kurt
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until BB is played in a similar fashion as the World Cup, the game is irrelevant IMO. I'm guessing the game isn't worth the risk of injury.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kanuslupus wrote:
Until BB is played in a similar fashion as the World Cup, the game is irrelevant IMO. I'm guessing the game isn't worth the risk of injury.

That was the conventional wisdom for many years. I would actually like to see college athletes competing again. It would really mean something to them as they would like to prove themselves to the pro scouts and they play better team ball than any NBA team out there let alone a compilation of the somewhat skilled, least apathetic NBA players.
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