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beastmaster
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if there weren't creation of Linux, today we would all be using *BSD now :lol:
what does it tell you :P
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thechris
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Grim started this post...

i know a guy with the last name of Grim that switched from gentoo to freeBSD...

possibly around the beginning of the year...
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IvanHoe
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Invasion of FreeBSD! Reply with quote

Mr.Grim wrote:
HELP! We have to stop all those people who are moving from gentoo to FreeBSD (BLEAGH!) They all clame the portage is "Better" and BSD is "Faster and more stable". How do we convince them to stick with Gentoo?

http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/
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Moloch
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used FreeBSD for a while on the desktop. I recall one the time mplayer had a bug where it would crash on exit. It only applied to FreeBSD. It has since been fixed. But it was little things like that which drove me away, just being incompatable with Linux. But I always found FreeBSD just "felt" more solid, stable, and logical though.

I'm getting bored of Linux, I'm going to install OpenBSD on one of my machines as a router/firewall. pf just sounds fun to mess with. I'm hoping it's QOS features perform better then Linux's. What's exciting about pf is after reading the documentation I feel confident I can make my own firewall script. I just felt too overwhelemd by iptables and installed shorewall instead. Tried various premade QOS scripts as well. I've never been quite happy with it.
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robmoss
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just read that scalability benchmark page. Wow! I had no idea quite how magnificent the 2.6 kernel was, as I've never really managed to put it under a load it struggles with. Seems like I know why now...!

Sounds like I might have to have another go with OpenMOSIX... :D
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beastmaster
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one question: is FreeBSD a source based UNIX system that when you do "pkg" (emerge equilvalent... ), it compiles the packages from sources?

if it does that, na forget it :twisted:
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craftyc
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beastmaster wrote:
one question: is FreeBSD a source based UNIX system that when you do "pkg" (emerge equilvalent... ), it compiles the packages from sources?

if it does that, na forget it :twisted:


I've never used FreeBSD before, but AFAIK it does have the option to compile from source.
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beastmaster
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes.. but I thought most of their packages in their database are binary??
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plbe
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FBSD has a couple options you can cd to the port directory your looking to install and type make install which it fetches and builds from source, theres also pkg_add which installs binaries either locally or remotely, portupgrade port has portinstall which is similiar to emerge where you can just type portinstall the_port_you_want_to_install...think thats it I may be wrong though
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romaninsh
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2004 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the only thing is ugly in Linux is Glibc. Big. Bloated. Inefficient. Slow. Libc of FreeBSD beats it. uClibc beats it (but have not enough features for desktop PC). I was compiling on gentoo+uclibc and it's much more faster end responsive. I hope glibc and xfree will die soon.
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toddles13
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

regeya wrote:
I hate to wake this thread from the dead and all, but I just had an 'emerge -u world' upgrade qt without upgrading anything else, and found myself wishing for portupgrade, so I could just rebuild the packages depending on qt and get on with it. :roll:


emerge -uD world or if you only want to do it for the one package then emerge -D qt

the D (deep) does all the dependicies for the packages as well.
Can be quite usefull when things dont play nicely when you upgrade.

From the Gentoo Handbook

Gentoo Hand book wrote:
Code Listing 30: Upgrading your entire system


# emerge --update --upgradeonly world

We have mentioned that the world file doesn't contain dependencies. When you run emerge --update world only the packages mentioned in the world file and it's immediate dependencies are checked and, if necessary, upgraded. If you want emerge to check all the dependencies (including the dependencies of the dependencies), add the --deep flag:

Code Listing 31: Upgrading your entire system, including all dependencies

# emerge --update --deep world

Of course, we are talking here about system and world, but you can perform the same actions for individual software packages.
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Plain-old-Jeb
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
if there weren't creation of Linux, today we would all be using *BSD now
what does it tell you


That BSD got bogged down in legal issues which prevented its wide spread addoption creating a gap for the inferior system Linux to get a hold over it?
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toddles13
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a BSD users opinion of the whole situation.

Matts rant

I enjoyed the read anyhow.
I am going to install FreeBsd on my free space to see what the deal is all about. Dont think i will swap from my Gentoo Desktop anytime soon as linux is just better for gaming. But would like to try as a server/firewall/experiment.
My opinion on this is "Use what ever suits you and don't put down others choice, as choice is good".
Simple.
My 2c worth.
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Rem
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toddles13 wrote:
Here is a BSD users opinion of the whole situation.

Matts rant



I really enjoyed reading this. Made a few last things clear to me. Except for checking FreeBSD out, Gentoo remains my main *nix system though.
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Deebster
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a good read, isn't it. A good sales job too, although I think that fewer of the Linux problems/BSD advantages apply to the Gentoo camp than the other distros - hardly surprising since drobbins was a BSD user before starting on Gentoo, and so would have ported the things he liked.
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toddles13
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I like the read as well. It was posted on OSnews.com about 5 months ago. Unlike most of the business world, I personally think that Linux is ready for the desktop for most people. The only problem is people don't want to learn new things so they stick to Windows. I on the other hand want to learn new things so will try out BSD (just downloaded FreeBsd .iso) to see what it is about.
I hope that everyone that reads this will try other distros/OS's to make sure they are on the right one. I have tried about 5 different distros but Gentoo still remains my fav one.
Like I said before its all about choice and what works for you. If it doesn't work for you then find something that does or fix the problem and let everone else know about it.

Oh yeah and remember the Golden rule, "have fun".
If it is just a choir then you need to be doing something else.

Must be up to 4c worth now.
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psi0nik
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i use (to varying degrees) gentoo, slackware, freebsd, openbsd, and solaris. gentoo and slack are, in my option, by far the most friendly, sensible, comfortable-to-use distros. they both do have a lot in common with the bsd's, and that carries over to using freebsd and openbsd. i have a fairly strong hatred for solaris from the past few years, but i'm trying to force myself into it a bit, for resume building purposes. commercial unices suck.

in response to the laziness factor of emerge package i wrote 2 quick scripts for OpenBSD's port system.. i don't have them in front of me, but it's something like:

portsearch
Code:

#!/bin/sh
cd /usr/ports
make search keyword=$1


so i can run portsearch <keyword> and get a list of packages matching what i want. then i run:

portinstall category/portname
Code:

#!/bin/sh
cd /usr/ports/$1
sudo make install && sudo make clean && sudo make distclean


that takes care of 90% of my /usr/ports laziness.
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bkeating
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoy working iwth FreeBSD for server usage. It works and works well. I'd like to see it support more filesystems n such but it -works- no ifs ands or buts.

GNU/Linux is nice for desktop use tho. I perfer it and recommend it over *BSD


OpenBSD is just the absolute _shit_ for firewalls. Even more so now with it's CARP and pfsync. god bless those geeks.
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shadv2
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lightvhawk0 wrote:
.
I use both BSD and Gentoo and I like Gentoo better because I'm lazy. IE
Code:
emerge vim
as apposed to
Code:
cd /usr/ports/editors/vim-lite <return> make install <return> make clean


try
Code:
make install clean
next time :)

Personally I like FreeBSD over Gentoo, however, I'm using Gentoo as my primary desktop because of its support for the latest hardware, and it's a lot easier to get games running on it :) My 3 FreeBSD boxes and the lonly debian box aren't going anywhere though, they're serving their purpose quite well as servers.
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emk
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<newbie_disclaimer>
I use only linux at home. But I've been pining to get a system with dual Arch Linux and Freebsd 5.2.1 My reason is that I've gotten the impression that FreeBSD is better on older hardware. And I like reclaiming peoples old PII's (at bargian basement prices) and putting them to good use.

- emk
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dpuckett
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I have been running FreeBSD (from Windows) on my home machine for about 8 months now and have been very pleased. I am fairly confident using it as a server (Web/Mail/SQL) but I feel its lacking in some of the cool toys that are available with Linux (MythTV, Ardour and the like) so I made the Gentoo plunge last night. After looking over the different distributions this one seemed like the easiest to try from a BSD perspective. I am looking forward to trying all the stuff I couldnt with BSD and hopefully learning something in the process.

Great Forum btw ;)

EDIT: What I did find odd was I thought Linux was ahead of the game in hardware support but It wouldnt load on either my home machine (SCSI CDROM not detected) nor on my Laptop (NIC not detected). Both were found by OpenBSD and FreeBSD perfectly.
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emk
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... linux isn't one homogenous world of compatibility/features. Depends which distro you're using. Some install CD detect everything or provide an easy interface to configure your own stuff.

-emk
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toddles13
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a good reason from Netcraft to keep BSD's around.
Top 20 longest running web servers.

Quote:
Note: Uptime - the time since last reboot is explained in the FAQ Generated on 8-Jun-2004
Rank Site No. samples Average Max Latest OS Server Netblock Owner
1 java.versalite.com 63 1648 1682 1683 FreeBSD Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Weathernews, Inc.
2 amedas.wni.co.jp 334 1637 1681 1682 FreeBSD Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Weathernews, Inc.
3 www.aarosmetro.se 118 1625 1824 1494 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) TeliaNet
4 www.alfaoffset.se 191 1603 1824 1492 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) TeliaNet
5 www.sisu.ac.se 203 1600 1824 1490 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) TeliaNet
6 wwwdir.telia.com 194 1598 1824 1492 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) TeliaNet
7 www.lobomar.se 195 1584 1824 1492 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) TeliaNet
8 www.21stcenturycomputers.com 215 1568 1608 1608 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.8.10 OpenSSL/0.9.6g Sprint
9 ftp.martijndekker.nl 88 1568 1609 1609 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.8.10 OpenSSL/0.9.6g Sprint
10 www.wycomp.com 203 1567 1607 1608 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.8.10 OpenSSL/0.9.6g Sprint
11 www.amason-associates.com 193 1566 1608 1609 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.8.10 OpenSSL/0.9.6g Sprint
12 www.helmarparts.com 336 1429 1472 1473 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.23 (Unix) INFOCROSSING
13 www.christchurchpompton.org 247 1428 1472 1473 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.23 (Unix) INFOCROSSING
14 www.acgnj.org 303 1427 1472 1473 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.23 (Unix) INFOCROSSING
15 www.lan.ne.jp 212 1400 1440 1441 FreeBSD Apache/1.2.6 Japan Telenet LTD
16 dbtech.net 207 1312 1353 1354 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) DB Technology
17 www.icard.com.hk 210 1311 1350 1351 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) HKNet Company Ltd.
18 www.alasearch.com 207 1300 1340 1341 BSD/OS Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) DB Technology
19 www.ehokenstore.com 275 1279 1323 1324 BSD/OS Oracle_Web_Listener/4.0.8.1.0EnterpriseEdition Japan Network Information Center
20 www.aleph.co.jp 339 1233 1277 1278 FreeBSD Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) ALEPH SYSTEMS corporation



Pretty impressive uptimes don't you think.
Don't know how accurate it is but hey.
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MatzeOne
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i moved from freebsd & windows to gentoo only last year... so what?! ;)
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Syntaxis
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toddles13 wrote:
Don't know how accurate it is but hey.

From http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html:
Quote:
Additionally HP-UX, Linux, NetApp NetCache, Solaris and recent releases of FreeBSD cycle back to zero after 497 days, exactly as if the machine had been rebooted at that precise point. Thus it is not possible to see a HP-UX, Linux or Solaris system with an uptime measurement above 497 days.

Note that for Linux this problem is fixed in the 2.6 kernel.
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