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andyfraser33
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

simon_irl wrote:
version 6.0 has just been released.


And it's so good. I've been running it (6.0-STABLE actually) since the day it was released and I have to say it's very fast. KDE 3.4.2 on 5.4 could be noticeably slower than Gentoo in two places (that I don't use very often so it wasn't a problem) but those slow-downs are now gone with FreeBSD 6.0/KDE 3.4.3.

Ports now seems so far ahead of stable Portage too (I know, it's unfair to compare Ports with stable Portage). amaroK is a good case in point. The latest version in the stable Portage branch is 1.2.4. Having used a 1.3.x version from Ports and discovering how great dynamic playlists are I had to upgrade my Gentoo version to ~x86 because for me this is a now must have feature.

I could just upgrade everything to ~x86 but I don't trust the ~x86 ebuilds anywhere near as much as I trust Ports. Using a few is ok and I know a lot of people are running pure ~x86 without problems but I just don't want to take the risk. One of the reasons I switched from Debian Unstable to Gentoo x86 was to get a much more "stable" system while still being fairly bleeding edge. I really don't want to get into a debate about Portage though. I just wanted to say that software from Ports works very well, better than ~x86 Portage in my experience, while being more bleeding edge than Gentoo stable.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Checking on this thread from time to time, I'm wondering, why there haven't been some more postings since FreeBSD 6.0 has been released.

Gentoo is my OS of choice for servers, as well as desktops and notebooks. Nevertheless I always keep an eye on FreeBSD, because I think their concept really is superior. But as it has been mentioned a lot of times, it's about the hardware support. Linux has made great steps in that matter, and since I am a ThinkPad T42p owner, it does not look like, I'm able to try FreeBSD anytime soon (having suspend/resume fully working here on my notebook, will soon be playing around with the new support for the harddisc active protection system >hdaps<, the fingerprint-reader support thank's to bioapi, as well as the just discovered cyberjack ebuild in bugs.gentoo.org for my external ReinerSCT smartcard-reader).

It was mentioned several times, that ports is superior compared to portage, but portage does a fine job, so nothing to complain from my side. For my concerns, ports is also not really ahead (writing this using Konqueror 3.5.0, whereas KDE 3.4.3 is still the latest for FreeBSD).

So I am pretty satisfied with Gentoo for the moment, no need to think about another OS. It will be pretty interesting to see, where the future is going to. At the moment I doubt, that FreeBSD will be able to keep up with Linux (and especially with Gentoo), because the userbase will evolve quite unequally, and FreeBSD still lacks the support of the hardware industry.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm, looks like this thread is not that popular any more...

In the meantime I am using the perfect environment on my T42p, having it all up and running in Gentoo, especially:

- KDE 3.5.0
- ATI drivers with hardware-acceleration
- Wireless / Ethernet autoswitching (using ifplugd)
- Synaptics touchpad + trackpoint + USB mouse (all working at the same time, including additional buttons on mouse & special features on touchpad)
- Full IBM-ACPI support (kernel-module + acpi-scripts)
- Suspend to RAM & Hibernation
- Full set of power-saving-features (including laptop-mode, hdd-spindown, wireless powersave, SpeedStep ondemand cpu-govenor)
- Full fingerprint-reader support (for login using the bioapi + pam module)
- hdaps driver installed (but still lacks hdd head parking software)
- external ReinerSCT cyberjack pinpad USB smartcard reader (for online-banking and applying digital signatures)

I think, FreeBSD has the overall better concept (representing an OS, not only a kernel + better structure of development), but still lacks the necessary support for full desktop and especially notebook usage. So unknown hardware-support due to the lack of drivers is surely the main problem, on the other hand a lot of software is just only available for Linux (stuff not in ports).

Until now, I didn't try FreeBSD by myself, no time and no free hdd space on my notebook (hm, maybe I should buy another harddrive... :wink: ). And I really don't want to miss the mentioned features, so it does not look like, I will be able, to give FreeBSD a go anytime soon. Nevertheless I'll keep an eye on it, you'll never know, what the future brings.

Has anybody here the latest FreeBSD edition up and running on a ThinkPad? Really would like to read about some experiences, especially how to deal with lacking support of certain features.
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CorpseOfMystic
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeBSD has better overall laptop support than Linux. As for thinkpads specifically, FreeBSD has full support for Thinkpads. The only catch I know of is that for the X series you must disable the second, unused IDE channel.

Quote:
on the other hand a lot of software is just only available for Linux (stuff not in ports).

There is significantly more software in ports than is available to a Gentoo user in portage.
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cybrjackle
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as kde-3.5 not being in freebsd yet, you could say the same for gnome-2.12 not being "stable" for gentoo :)

The kde-freebsd is working on the port though just an fyi.

http://freebsd.kde.org/


I'm always running the latest gnome on freebsd "DESKTOP" that does everything any other *nix does. I'm actually using gnome-2.13.3 now 8)
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CorpseOfMystic
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The primary maintainer of KDE/FreeBSD was ill at the time of the KDE 3.5 release and unable to work on it, which put him quite a bit behind. There is word that they will probably skip 3.5 and wait for 3.5.1 instead.
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mdshort
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer debian over freebsd anyday for servers. (Gentoo is extremely hard to maintain for servers.. all in all its just messy.)

And gentoo over debian for desktops.

It might be just preference, though, since debian's apt-get is soo similar and just as easy to use as portage. Debian has a security branch, they fix stuff within a few hours of discovery... :)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'm going to get back into FreeBSD...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you ever read this article? http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-dist3.html

It's an older article, but a very interesting read authored by the creator of Gentoo, Daniel Robbins.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CorpseOfMystic wrote:
FreeBSD has better overall laptop support than Linux. As for thinkpads specifically, FreeBSD has full support for Thinkpads. The only catch I know of is that for the X series you must disable the second, unused IDE channel.

Unfortunately I still could not find any more clues on the use of the fingerprint reader in FreeBSD, which is kind of strange, because all the needed stuff is already available for Linux (as mentioned, have it up and running in my Gentoo setup), so nobody would have to invent the wheel again, but just to port the stuff over to FreeBSD.

It's the same with the mentioned ReinerSCT cyberjack pinpad USB smartcard-reader. The open source Linux driver is available for quite a while, and for the actual hardware version (0x300) there is no kernel module needed, all magic is done in userland, so one would think, it should be easy to port it over to FreeBSD. But unfortunately I could not find any info about the possibility to use that device in FreeBSD at all...

CorpseOfMystic wrote:
Master One wrote:
on the other hand a lot of software is just only available for Linux (stuff not in ports).

There is significantly more software in ports than is available to a Gentoo user in portage.

Yes, this is really amazing, I just checked: FreeBSD has just reached about 14.000 ports, whereas Gentoo is actually with about 10.500 ebuilds in portage. With ~ 3.500 more packages available in FreeBSD one must think, that FreeBSD really offers all you can think of, so it should indeed be at least equally satisfying for desktop use, as any Linux distribution.

So on one hand much more software available in ports, than in portage, but still lacks support for quite some hardware...

But I think they are going the right way. I recently read here, that the ATI fglrx driver got ported to FreeBSD (still being in alpha state, but at least something it going on over there).

BTW The FreeBSD Foundation is to support the FreeBSD project, and also has the goal to push FreeBSD more into the light. Hopefully they succeed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well imagine if freebsd developers suddenly decided they were going to take thier freebsd operating system and impliment it with a linux kernel instead of a freebsd kernel! The result would be an OS almost identical to gentoo! I think that gentoo was created to be a linux distrobution which was more simular to freebsd in design. I use both freebsd and gentoo and they both have alot of simularities aside from the kernel and some of the differences betwen the freebsd configuration and linux configuration. I think freebsd, as an entire operating system is concerned, is brilliantly designed and THAT has kept it afloat in a world where linux is driven by much more steam. The simple fact that freebsd remains one of the popular unix flavor distributions can be attributed to this. Linux does have alot more steam which helps fuel its development and gain support. As far as any invasion is concerned, gentoo is a perfect example of how freebsd's existance has influenced linux. Actually, this is one of the reasons why this thread exists, because gentoo users learn that freebsd has a simular package management system and want to give freebsd a try (not switch but check it out).
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I currently use FreeBSD on my file server at home, with Gentoo on my workstation and am installing it on my Dell laptop. I do think the FreeBSD ports install cleanly, but upgrading is so much more difficult than on Gentoo. Bizarrely I discovered FreeBSD before even hearing about Gentoo.

I need to keep ClamAV up to date to protect my Windows 2000/XP machines from possibly viruses on /home thats shared from the server. Also I like to keep Apache etc. up to date to deal with security issues.

Code:
emerge packagename


is so much easier than messing around with portupgrade etc. it's a pity because FreeBSD is quite a good server OS and i've been very happy with it.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Alert wrote:
I currently use FreeBSD on my file server at home, with Gentoo on my workstation and am installing it on my Dell laptop. I do think the FreeBSD ports install cleanly, but upgrading is so much more difficult than on Gentoo.

Its not hard at all.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I'm curious as to why there are all of these people on the forums have hundreds of posts, yet don't use Gentoo, or have just installed it for the first time? Aren't the Gentoo forums for Gentoo users? I could be wrong about this. I'm all for giving to the community in one way or another, but if other distro users need help, shouldn't they be going to their distro's forums?

EDIT: I've seen people talk about how FreeBSD is better than Gentoo on this thread, I remember when I was on my quest to find my new distro. I tried FreeBSD just for the hell of it. That thing couldn't have been on my machine for more than 3 hours. Installing that was a waste of my time. The system wasn't very user friendly, at the time I had been using Linux for about 2 years so I had a good amount of Linux usage under my belt.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghuug wrote:
FreeBSD is a complete system (kernel/userspace), unlike Linux distributions (anyone can tell how many of them around these days?)


Ya, you wouldn't want to have multiple choices. Choices are bad for the consumer.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brims: I may have misread your post and this may seem a little picky so I apologise in advance.

FreeBSD is not Linux, it's one of the BSDs. It's different enough that there will be a learning curve if you're coming from Linux but similar enough that that learning curve shouldn't be too great, depending on your Linux knowledge of course. Like Gentoo, FreeBSD has an excellent handbook that should make the transition less painful. I've seen people urge Gentoo newbies to read the docs. The same is true for FreeBSD.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyfraser33 wrote:
FreeBSD is not Linux, it's one of the BSDs. It's different enough that there will be a learning curve if you're coming from Linux but similar enough that that learning curve shouldn't be too great, depending on your Linux knowledge of course. Like Gentoo, FreeBSD has an excellent handbook that should make the transition less painful. I've seen people urge Gentoo newbies to read the docs. The same is true for FreeBSD.


The same is true for any system you havn't used before, would you imagine NASA engineers building a new satilite by randomly placing parts here there and everwhere.. hell no, they document the whole thing and everything's done by the book when it comes to construction and deployment.. while GNU/Linux and FreeBSD are both UNIX clones, they all have their little quirks to get the hang of like anything else in life.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyfraser33 wrote:
FreeBSD is not Linux, it's one of the BSDs. It's different enough that there will be a learning curve if you're coming from Linux but similar enough that that learning curve shouldn't be too great, depending on your Linux knowledge of course. Like Gentoo, FreeBSD has an excellent handbook that should make the transition less painful. I've seen people urge Gentoo newbies to read the docs. The same is true for FreeBSD.


I am aware FreeBSD isn't Linux. What I was trying to say was that it just didn't feel like a user friendly OS. I have never used an official Unix, but FreeBSD seemed to be what an old Unix system would be like. I don't really know how to explain it, but that's what it was like to me.

I just could never get into it. I personally don't think having such a small developer team doing all the work will merit good results and having such a small userbase to me means it just doesn't have the ability to meet the needs for many people. FreeBSD may meet some people's needs, I just don't feel it can meet the needs I have for an operating system and accompanying software.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brims wrote:
andyfraser33 wrote:
FreeBSD is not Linux, it's one of the BSDs. It's different enough that there will be a learning curve if you're coming from Linux but similar enough that that learning curve shouldn't be too great, depending on your Linux knowledge of course. Like Gentoo, FreeBSD has an excellent handbook that should make the transition less painful. I've seen people urge Gentoo newbies to read the docs. The same is true for FreeBSD.


I am aware FreeBSD isn't Linux. What I was trying to say was that it just didn't feel like a user friendly OS. I have never used an official Unix, but FreeBSD seemed to be what an old Unix system would be like. I don't really know how to explain it, but that's what it was like to me.


That makes sense now. We could argue what "user friendly" means all day and get nowhere so I won't do that except to say that from my position (I still vaguely remember admining SunOS boxes before we shifted to Solaris many moons ago) I find FreeBSD as easy to use and as user friendly as many other operating systems.

brims wrote:
I just could never get into it. I personally don't think having such a small developer team doing all the work will merit good results and having such a small userbase to me means it just doesn't have the ability to meet the needs for many people. FreeBSD may meet some people's needs, I just don't feel it can meet the needs I have for an operating system and accompanying software.


For years I thought that FreeBSD was only for servers and felt that that's where the dev team were concentrating. That's just the way I saw it though and I could be very wrong. I was as surprised as anyone when I discovered what a great desktop OS it is on my hardware. The beauty of F/OSS is that there are operating systems for everyone for every need. FreeBSD meets my needs now (especially since 6.0) better than Linux does on the desktop (although I still use Linux a lot) so it's horses for courses really.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brims wrote:
andyfraser33 wrote:
FreeBSD is not Linux, it's one of the BSDs. It's different enough that there will be a learning curve if you're coming from Linux but similar enough that that learning curve shouldn't be too great, depending on your Linux knowledge of course. Like Gentoo, FreeBSD has an excellent handbook that should make the transition less painful. I've seen people urge Gentoo newbies to read the docs. The same is true for FreeBSD.


I am aware FreeBSD isn't Linux. What I was trying to say was that it just didn't feel like a user friendly OS.

You complain about userfriendliness and yet you use gentoo? :?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, from what I can tell, FreeBSD and Gentoo both offer the about the same things. What I cant figure out, is why there is such a holy war between the two camps. I mean, nearly every BSD guy I've personally met has had the attitude that 'Linux is bollocks' - and even one of the BSD developers recently stated something to the effect of that he couldnt understand why people use linux, other than the fact that they just dont realize what "complete crap it is". I guess like everything else, it just comes down to the vi vs emacs wars, or the coding style wars, etc. Waste of time if you ask me.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
You complain about userfriendliness and yet you use gentoo? :?


Yes I do, Gentoo is extremely user friendly, more so than FreeBSD felt. Gentoo has all the tools I need to keep my system in top shape.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo is a little easier than FreeBSD I have to say, having used both, but FreeBSD is useable just as Gentoo is if you're willing to read the handbook...

There isn't much in it though, mainly the difference between linux and bsd, not Gentoo and FreeBSD as they are very similar distros only one uses linux and the other bsd. I would say that Gentoo is the closest distro to FreeBSD in the linux world.

In fact, Gentoo's Portage idea was shamelessly stolen from FreeBSD's Ports which was the envy in the Unix/Linux world for many years... (Also notice the names Ports and Portage are similar - this is not coincidence but likely a token of respect/heritage...)

Both are good.

I have to say though that I find recompiling the BSD kernel more difficult because you have to edit the kernel config file manually which is a real drag whereas linux gives a nice ncurses menu system (and you can use the graphical menus if you're really wimpy...)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

humbletech99 wrote:

I have to say though that I find recompiling the BSD kernel more difficult because you have to edit the kernel config file manually which is a real drag whereas linux gives a nice ncurses menu system (and you can use the graphical menus if you're really wimpy...)

Believe it or not, editing the file is actually easier than the ncurses menu. Why? BSD kernel already has all the main stuff compiled in, and everything else is loadable as module. If you want to make the kernel more skinny you just start removing shit from the file. If you want to use framebuffer in console in BSD, all you need to add is i believe "options VESA" into the file. The ncurses menu can be frustrating to find what you need, although its getting slightly more organized now.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that editing the kernel config file is definitely more prone to accidental error. If everything is compiled in then it's more like just downloading a distro kernel from a distro other than gentoo (genkernel is a little sucky so doesn't count).

In fairness, this probably just reflects by bias due to more experience with compiling linux kernels...
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