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kalisphoenix
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BSD would have at least some of my business if their SPARC installs worked reasonably...
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sm0ke
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why the argument? It would seem to me that FreeBSD and Gentoo have a great deal in common, and just from this discussion alone share a fair amount of the same space.

I have three boxes on my desktop. One Gentoo (my primary), one FreeBSD (backup with some necessary services running), and Mandrake (gaming box... soon to be gutted and rolled over into Gentoo).

I like the way they compliment. Course the firewall is running OpenBSD, but that's a different story.

The point you hear over and over is that you use the right tool for the job. Never mind that. Gentoo has a dynamic user community that is in some part shared with FreeBSD. This should be a good thing!

I'm not even going to suggest that one is better than the other, or that one plays a certain role better. I love em' both, and can't see either leaving my desktop anytime soon.
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Rem
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ironical that this topic that was started to keep gentoo-users using gentoo got me thinking about trying freebsd again :wink:

I like freebsd, as it seems faster and more robust, and as I like to learn from it too.

I tried it a while ago, but couldn't get the drivers for my nforce2 board right. I just checked bsdforums and freebsd.org to see how the situation is now.

Maybe I'll try it again in the near future, but it seems to much of a hassle right now, to get everything working.

I also think there are some good similarities between gentoo and freebsd. The *bsd community is also helpfull and friendly in my experience.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went from a short beginning flirtation with Mandrake to installing OpenBSD as a Unix newbie (boy was that painful), then to FreeBSD, and now I'm using Gentoo as my desktop.

each system has different strengths.

Gentoo has
- probably has the friendliest and most newbie-friendly community.
- It's very easy to almost endlessly configure it.
- easiest to install high security distro (Trusted Gentoo)
- great hardware support
- easy to just compile prebrewed kernels with patches applied
- better configuration file layout than most Linux's
- Portage is awesome, a must have for most Linux systems.
- kernel 2.6 is supposed to be awesome, haven't tried it yet though.
- works as VMWare system....

FreeBSD is the user-friendliest of the BSD's and focused on reliability/performance...
- rock solid stable
- jail function rocks
- best/most sensible config files I have seen
- ports is still more stable than portage.

OpenBSD is security focused....
- pf is THE best open source firewall, period. Netfilter does not compare.
- OBSD ports are still pretty nice
- automatic ProPolice/W^X+noexec stack on the whole damn system.
- everything is audited for holes
- best documention of a Unix EVER!!!!! you really can understand everything by reading the man pages!

I don't really like Mandrake, so I won't say anything about it.
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lightvhawk0
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read so far that BSD is faster? Ok, I guess you could say that. Personally I haven't noticed a diffrence between the two. In some funky benchmarks this guy said that 2.6 was an extremely fast kernel compaired to BSD.
I use both BSD and Gentoo and I like Gentoo better because I'm lazy. IE
Code:
emerge vim
as apposed to
Code:
cd /usr/ports/editors/vim-lite <return> make install <return> make clean

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ghuug
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually prefer FreeBSD to Linux.

* FreeBSD is a complete system (kernel/userspace), unlike Linux distributions (anyone can tell how many of them around these days?)
* FreeBSD has ipfw (yeah, human readable format, unlike netfilter with xillions of keys) AND dummynet, which is hell nice to control bandwidth logically
* Editing kernel config in FreeBSD is damn straightforward - I said "device ata" and that's it: I'm sure my IDE drive will work full speed (in Linux kernel, you need to select your controller, which could be problematic for dummie)
* FreeBSD's TCP/IP stack (like in all BSDs) is better than Linux's
* You can tune FreeBSD in more ways then you can tune Linux

Generally - FreeBSD lives on my servers; Linux stays on my desktop.

regards,
M.
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Unleashed
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GentooBSD wrote:

each system has different strengths.


Man, you said it all. I've had a very tough time trying to explain -let alone convince- people all those things you've listed in such a straightforward manner. Thanks.
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Spawn of Lovechild
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a sad little sidenote, I upgraded my box to FreeBSD 5.2.1, and it seems the gcc they ship with it is a bit broken - I keep getting the dreaded "unable to create executables" message from ./configure.

But it's a fine system, and I can't wait for 5.3 or which ever version goes stable.
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mezz
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lightvhawk0 wrote:
I use both BSD and Gentoo and I like Gentoo better because I'm lazy. IE
Code:
emerge vim
as apposed to
Code:
cd /usr/ports/editors/vim-lite <return> make install <return> make clean

You can do few different ways:

pkg_add -r vim-lite
portinstall vim-lite (portinstall is from portupgrade.)
cd /usr/ports/editors/vim-lite ; make install clean (no need to do make install and make clean)
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mezz
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spawn of Lovechild wrote:
Just a sad little sidenote, I upgraded my box to FreeBSD 5.2.1, and it seems the gcc they ship with it is a bit broken - I keep getting the dreaded "unable to create executables" message from ./configure.

But it's a fine system, and I can't wait for 5.3 or which ever version goes stable.

No broke GCC here, GCC hasn't change since Nov.

# gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 3.3.3 [FreeBSD] 20031106
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Spawn of Lovechild
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mezz wrote:
Spawn of Lovechild wrote:
Just a sad little sidenote, I upgraded my box to FreeBSD 5.2.1, and it seems the gcc they ship with it is a bit broken - I keep getting the dreaded "unable to create executables" message from ./configure.

But it's a fine system, and I can't wait for 5.3 or which ever version goes stable.

No broke GCC here, GCC hasn't change since Nov.

# gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 3.3.3 [FreeBSD] 20031106


Strange... maybe I have a broken port then... it's python btw.

Okay, I have another question - where do I set the default place to download stuff - fx. pkg_add seems to want to use ftp.freebsd.org which is down for me, and the ezm3 port has been broken for ages (so I need the package to make cvsup work).
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mezz
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spawn of Lovechild wrote:
mezz wrote:
Spawn of Lovechild wrote:
Just a sad little sidenote, I upgraded my box to FreeBSD 5.2.1, and it seems the gcc they ship with it is a bit broken - I keep getting the dreaded "unable to create executables" message from ./configure.

But it's a fine system, and I can't wait for 5.3 or which ever version goes stable.

No broke GCC here, GCC hasn't change since Nov.

# gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 3.3.3 [FreeBSD] 20031106


Strange... maybe I have a broken port then... it's python btw.

Did you tried update your ports tree and clean out all work directories (ie: portsclean -C, rm -rf /usr/ports/*/*/work or cd /usr/ports ; make clean)?

Spawn of Lovechild wrote:
Okay, I have another question - where do I set the default place to download stuff - fx. pkg_add seems to want to use ftp.freebsd.org which is down for me

Have you read in the pkg_add(1), yet?
Code:
[...copied from pkg_add(1)...]

     The environment variable PACKAGEROOT specifies an alternate location for
     pkg_add to fetch from.  The fetch URL is built using this environment
     variable and the automatic directory logic that pkg_add uses when the -r
     option is invoked.  An example setting would be "ftp://ftp3.FreeBSD.org".
 
     The environment variable PACKAGESITE specifies an alternate location for
     pkg_add to fetch from.  This variable subverts the automatic directory
     logic that pkg_add uses when the -r option is invoked.  Thus it should be
     a complete URL to the remote package file(s).

It's why I suggest to use -r flag above as 'pkg_add -r vim-lite'.

Spawn of Lovechild wrote:
the ezm3 port has been broken for ages (so I need the package to make cvsup work).

Always broke on you? There's no broke in the bento, a cluster machine. I normal recommend people to install cvsup by 'pkg_add -r cvsup-without-gui', because it's painless and no useless of dependencies install like ezm3 and others.
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uglyb0b
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say it really depends on what you're used to. I've been using Gentoo for about 1 year now, and a few weeks ago I tried freeBSD and hated it. why? ports got borked at me, csh makes me irritated, and I like to say linux. Thats no reason not to use it, though. All you need is to get used to FreeBSD's way of doing things over Gentoo's.
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floam
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..What is your problem? If they want to switch, who cares? It's not like Gentoo is in need of more users.
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kidacro
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: Gentoo/Freebsd Reply with quote

Being a long time FreeBsd user myself, and as its been said time and time b4, its a killer server and your best friend for stability in crisis situations. But when it comes to extreme desktop/gaming uses, gentoo simply owns... hats off to all who are a part of it.

Taking the time to build most of your os from sources pays off, in both cases, no doubt. I consider them neighbors... living in the house of gentoo and shagging my neighbors wife in the house of freebsd :p
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Spawn of Lovechild
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally figured out the problem - it was caused by my freshly compiled kernel that broke gcc's ability to create executables.

FreeBSD 5.2.1 running smoothly here - yay.
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Dr Gonzo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They both rock.

I used the old (4.8) version of FreeBSD last summer, and I had a great time messing with it. However, I wanted some newer software, so I installed 5.1 and was unable to get networking up after install. It worked during, but not after.

I think I'm gonna nix Debian from my server and install FreeBSD. I bought this wonderful book (Absolute BSD) and am itching to crack it again.

Gaming will always keep Linux on my desktop, and I like Gentoo a lot. I'd actually prefer to use BSD if I could replace Linux, as I really like the BSD license. Plus, I like the little devil guy. What's his name again?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:32 am    Post subject: Gentoo AND FreeBSD Reply with quote

I run both of them. My main box is dual boot, Win98 for games (when WineX will be able to run Raven Shield or Age of Wonders, tell me please), Gentoo for everything else. However, it's not directly connected to the internet. Rather, it's behind a NAT provided by an old P133 which I bought for like $50, running FreeBSD 5.2. The thing serves as my firewall, and also runs an FTP server. No monitor, keyboard or anything, just a box =) Oh, and of course SSH for administration.

Interesting enough is that there is not enough space on its harddrive for my distfiles, so it mounts them into /var/ftp/pub from my computer via NFS. Yes, I know I am a pervert =)

What I like about Gentoo is that its /etc is somewhat cleaner. And of course Portage is great, although I miss binary packages sometimes. What is good about FreeBSD is its handbook - it's pretty much everything you need to set up a server of any kind. Oh, and sysinstall can save you quite some time.

Overall, I'd say that Gentoo is the most BSD-like of all Linux distributions.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*BSD is dying. Excuse me while I make a "Soviet Russia" joke and put on my tin-foil hat.













If anyone doesn't get that, go to /. more often.
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Brother Dysk
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

docGonzo2000 wrote:
I like the little devil guy. What's his name again?


From the FreeBSD FAQ:

Quote:
16.9. What is the cute little red guy's name?

He does not have one, and is just called ``the BSD daemon''. If you insist upon using a name, call him ``beastie''. Note that ``beastie'' is pronounced ``BSD''.
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Dr Gonzo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I just installed FreeBSD 5.2.1, and am having major problems getting it working correctly. Actually, that's not entirely true -- it's up and running as my web server, but there's nothing else I can seem to do with it. My kernel compile fails, half the packages I try to install from the net fail, and a couple of ports that I've tried to install are broken. Plus, there are some little annoyances -- like, I can't mount the cdrom as a regular user.

FreeBSD will stay on that machine as a server, but I'm not even sure how to do security updates. How can I upgrade binary packages with dependency checking? Is there a way? If I have to compile everything from source on my BSD box, it'll be 2010 before I'm done.

Oh well... May possibly end up going back to Debian on that box anyhow. However, I wanna like BSD... Any ideas so as to not be pissed off?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

docGonzo2000 wrote:
...I can't mount the cdrom as a regular user...


Same case here, and the "sudo" command also didn't work.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

docGonzo2000 wrote:
Well, I just installed FreeBSD 5.2.1, and am having major problems getting it working correctly. Actually, that's not entirely true -- it's up and running as my web server, but there's nothing else I can seem to do with it. My kernel compile fails, half the packages I try to install from the net fail, and a couple of ports that I've tried to install are broken. Plus, there are some little annoyances -- like, I can't mount the cdrom as a regular user.

FreeBSD will stay on that machine as a server, but I'm not even sure how to do security updates. How can I upgrade binary packages with dependency checking? Is there a way? If I have to compile everything from source on my BSD box, it'll be 2010 before I'm done.

Oh well... May possibly end up going back to Debian on that box anyhow. However, I wanna like BSD... Any ideas so as to not be pissed off?


As far as keeping the base up to date install cvsup from ports to keep your ports up to date install the portupgrade package from ports
net/cvsup
sysutils/portupgrade

after you cvsup check the /usr/src/UPDATING it gives detailed instructions and as far as mounting the cdrom make sure you have correct permissions and are in the right group and edit your sudoers file if you haven't done so hope this helps
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I cvsup'd my ports tree, did 'portupgrade -Af', and I'm still having major problems after 2 friggin' days of compilation. I'm going to try one more reinstall, but it's sure not looking good.

It just seems that the BSD group is just not very interested in user friendliness. I could be wrong, but that's my perception. I guess it'll work as a server, but I'm a little worried about the lack of security update possibilities, since I can't seem to get portupgrade to work properly.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

docGonzo2000 wrote:
Well, I cvsup'd my ports tree, did 'portupgrade -Af', and I'm still having major problems after 2 friggin' days of compilation. I'm going to try one more reinstall, but it's sure not looking good.

It just seems that the BSD group is just not very interested in user friendliness. I could be wrong, but that's my perception. I guess it'll work as a server, but I'm a little worried about the lack of security update possibilities, since I can't seem to get portupgrade to work properly.


hrm I can't say I've had these problems while working with freebsd everything seems to work fine for me although i use portupgrade -a or portupgrade '*' But you are right the BSD group isn't very interested in user friendliness they concentrate on performance and stability. Don't give up though one thing that seperates any *nix user from a windows [l]user is the ability to solve a problem ;] oh btw don't know if you know this or not but portupgrade does not update your base system you need to cvsup with RELENG_5_2 tag and then do a make world and rebuild kernel its quite easy though once you figure everything out
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