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cokey
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:25 am    Post subject: Gentoo-ised DE/WM Reply with quote

Most distributions customise GNOME/KDE/etc, why doesn't Gentoo?

I think that we should have people put in their designs and have a poll to see which one people like the most and have a default Gentoo design.

The current GNOME default is ugly and nothing compared to Ubuntu's, in the same vein SuSE has a very nice KDE one. Both could be changed back to the GNOME/KDE default one but the should be a Gentoo purple default with maybe a larry somewhere.

Discuss...
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would be pointless.

A better solution would be to let anyone who wishes to do it, get on with it and if the result is of acceptable quality, stuff it in portage.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually like how GNome, firefox, thunderbird, etc, was "untouched" on Gentoo... I never saw what the default Gnome looks like on other distros, and you know, it is pretty stupid how it usually says "Thunderbird by Ubuntu", I am already using the distro, no need to remind me about it in every application!!!

But hey, if some great artist can make some kick ass theme on Gentoo, it would be great that people can install it from portage, should they wanted to!!
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that sort of thing gives newbies and people from the outside the impression that Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, and the other distros are different OS's and not different flavors of the same OS. The result being forum questions like "What is the best xxxxx for Gentoo?"

That said, there is plenty of Gentoo artwork in Portage and elsewhere. There are icon themes, boot splashes, and GDM/KDM themes.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo does, USE="branding" changes some splashscreens and adds themes(like mouse cursors).
But not the way suse,ubuntu, etc do.

Maybe we could extent that use flag? For example it could replace the default-kde K button with a G (as suse does).
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Most distributions customise GNOME/KDE/etc, why doesn't Gentoo?

One of the reasons why many people prefer Gentoo is exactly that we don't do customization; And if, then opt-in via the branding use flag.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carlo wrote:
One of the reasons why many people prefer Gentoo is exactly that we don't do customization; And if, then opt-in via the branding use flag.
I am one of the many people with that reason. To me, Gentoo is a kind of "do it yourself" distro and lack of branding seems to fit in with that idea.

Having a plain boring default theme to start out has the advantage of more users thinking "I wish it could look better", motivating them to investigate theming options and thus giving a greater chance of having something more personalised.

It's not just desktop environments. The GRUB bootloader has always had the "purple spotlight" splash with "gentoo linux" written on the bottom right. And booting up on framebuffer consoles has a cute Tux sitting at the top left of the screen, I've seen many distros replace that with something else.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From experience, I have friends looked at my Gentoo booting up with init-ng, and was like, "WOW!!!" thing; while when I used Ubuntu, which had their logo on the boot up, my friends were like, "Can you get rid of that *thing*?" (They were about to switch to Linux.)

However, your milage may vary.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Gentoo ever makes it that is has its own default WM/DM that be the day I leave Gentoo. I like it how it allows you to pick your own crap and not get a default crap like Ubuntu/Suse does. Just give me a kernel, partition, grub and I'll do the rest.
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cokey
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carlo wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Most distributions customise GNOME/KDE/etc, why doesn't Gentoo?
One of the reasons why many people prefer Gentoo is exactly that we don't do customization; And if, then opt-in via the branding use flag.
so USE="branding" gives you gentoo-ised Gnome, the gentoo colours etc.

Why do most people here think it is immediately bad, one person has already threatened to leave gentoo? You can change it all going into the options and turning it back to gnome default.

A Gentoo default would make Gentoo look more professional to new users while still offering the same options to existing ones without leaving the plain one to existing users.

[quote="onlinepancakes]"If Gentoo ever makes it that is has its own default WM/DM that be the day I leave Gentoo. I like it how it allows you to pick your own crap and not get a default crap like Ubuntu/Suse does. Just give me a kernel, partition, grub and I'll do the rest.[/quote]now that would just be stupid :roll:
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunnz wrote:
I actually like how GNome, firefox, thunderbird, etc, was "untouched" on Gentoo... I never saw what the default Gnome looks like on other distros, and you know, it is pretty stupid how it usually says "Thunderbird by Ubuntu", I am already using the distro, no need to remind me about it in every application!!!

But hey, if some great artist can make some kick ass theme on Gentoo, it would be great that people can install it from portage, should they wanted to!!

++
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a bad idea at all. IIRC we have Gentoo icon set and Gentoo mouse pointers allready. Looking at the branding use flag with profuse:
Code:
Local Flag: Enable Gentoo branded splash screen (app-office/openoffice)
Local Flag: Enable a custom gentoo branded splashscreen (gnome-base/gnome-session)

Well that's a bit useless. I usually disable splashscreens. However a small selection of Gentoo branded themes for major WM's and DE's wouldnt hurt.
Also when using emerge -s one can find gentoo-artwork package which has Gentoo logos etc artwork. I think the icons are in that package.

Ok so it looks like we have some artwork allready. What is left to do is maybe write a howto or to advertise them so people know about what is available allready. Wouldnt mind if we had more and updated themes and artwork. Maybe 'Gentoo' could hold a some sort of art contest to get more artwork for people? :D
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

onlinepancakes wrote:
Just give me a kernel, partition, grub and I'll do the rest.

You don't even want gcc, glibc, bash, or any of that other stuff?? You are hardcore! :)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Agree and Disagree,

Some styling / theming would be nice, how ever, it should not be the default.
The official releases are what we what :)
The Gentoo constitution should state that we shall have individualism and personal responsibility to create our individualism.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
onlinepancakes wrote:
"If Gentoo ever makes it that is has its own default WM/DM that be the day I leave Gentoo. I like it how it allows you to pick your own crap and not get a default crap like Ubuntu/Suse does. Just give me a kernel, partition, grub and I'll do the rest.
now that would just be stupid :roll:

This from a guy who doesn't even *use* Gentoo... even if you are a user rep. (or have you seen the light and returned home?) :D
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yabbadabbadont wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
onlinepancakes wrote:
"If Gentoo ever makes it that is has its own default WM/DM that be the day I leave Gentoo. I like it how it allows you to pick your own crap and not get a default crap like Ubuntu/Suse does. Just give me a kernel, partition, grub and I'll do the rest.
now that would just be stupid :roll:

This from a guy who doesn't even *use* Gentoo... even if you are a user rep. (or have you seen the light and returned home?) :D

I get to follow you this time yabbadabbadont. ;) (That other post made me laugh, thanks.)

Whether Gentoo creates a new default look, or stays with the package defaults, half the people will like the new default, and the other half will like the old look. If creating this "new" theme takes developers from other areas, I think it is wasted energy.

Although it sounds like it would create a more "professional" look, if you look at various screenshots from several distros the window decorations for the most part don't stand out as a difference maker. (IMHO)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carlo wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Most distributions customise GNOME/KDE/etc, why doesn't Gentoo?

One of the reasons why many people prefer Gentoo is exactly that we don't do customization; And if, then opt-in via the branding use flag.

I'm one of those too, I vote for keep the branding :wink: Or having a special use flag for DE's like "gentooized" or something so one can choose
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a Gentoo-centric icon theme. I use a lot of this set (they have loads of icons, wallpapers, themes, etc) just recolored.
http://lila-theme.uni.cc
Development seems to have stopped, but they got a lot done and I only had to make one icon (Cedega) to have all my apps supported by nifty, homogenous icons.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

freshyapepper wrote:
This is a Gentoo-centric icon theme. I use a lot of this set (they have loads of icons, wallpapers, themes, etc) just recolored.
http://lila-theme.uni.cc
Development seems to have stopped, but they got a lot done and I only had to make one icon (Cedega) to have all my apps supported by nifty, homogenous icons.

If that's the choice, I would even more strongly say no. Seeing those icons wouldn't draw me to Gentoo. :P
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cokey
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Headrush wrote:
freshyapepper wrote:
This is a Gentoo-centric icon theme. I use a lot of this set (they have loads of icons, wallpapers, themes, etc) just recolored.
http://lila-theme.uni.cc
Development seems to have stopped, but they got a lot done and I only had to make one icon (Cedega) to have all my apps supported by nifty, homogenous icons.
If that's the choice, I would even more strongly say no. Seeing those icons wouldn't draw me to Gentoo. :P
a mixture of that and tango would be good, a darker purple is needed though.

How about a compromise... Have the Gentoo theme (when agreed upon) on the installer and then when the installation is finished they will have the plain old Gnome/KDE defaults. If we get anyone saying "I want that colour scheme" then we can say "emerge foo".

How about them apples?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Headrush wrote:
freshyapepper wrote:
This is a Gentoo-centric icon theme. I use a lot of this set (they have loads of icons, wallpapers, themes, etc) just recolored.
http://lila-theme.uni.cc
Development seems to have stopped, but they got a lot done and I only had to make one icon (Cedega) to have all my apps supported by nifty, homogenous icons.
If that's the choice, I would even more strongly say no. Seeing those icons wouldn't draw me to Gentoo. :P
a mixture of that and tango would be good, a darker purple is needed though.

How about a compromise... Have the Gentoo theme (when agreed upon) on the installer and then when the installation is finished they will have the plain old Gnome/KDE defaults. If we get anyone saying "I want that colour scheme" then we can say "emerge foo".

How about them apples?

Sure, just as soon as the installer stops randomly destroying partition tables... ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a great idea to customize Gentoo LiveCD/LiveDVD, since it is like a presentation card for Gentoo. However, the version installed on disk should be cleaned of all the customization.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Users shall have a choice... at the near end of installing a DE, whatever Doc they used shall have a line of something like: (e.g. for kde) "If you want a Gentoo-ised DE, do emerge gentoo-ise-kde now!!"
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunnz wrote:
Users shall have a choice... at the near end of installing a DE, whatever Doc they used shall have a line of something like: (e.g. for kde) "If you want a Gentoo-ised DE, do emerge gentoo-ise-kde now!!"


This seems better. I wouldn't mind installing Gentoo with Gentoo's face. I would customize it later of course.

Having a installation like this (with Gentoo visoo) will give any user a very good impression.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion the GUI installer should maybe have a checkbox with "Do you want you installation gentoo-ized?" (maybe with a little image next to it so people can see what it means). But for the text-based installation I'd just maybe throw a note in the documentation.

Like some already said: Gentoo - for me - is about offering choice and not setting things up "right" for me. But I still think that some work towards this branding thing is not wasted, I know a few people who'd chose that useflag/checkbox/[insert some way to set a binary choice] if they knew it existed because the really like the distro. I think that would work for the three big DEs (KDE,GNOME,XFCE).
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